Perk & Magazine Tweaks (Feedback & Suggestions A21)

[Monkey Magic]

There doesn't appear to be a section for this, so "General" it is:

There are 5 main statistic, each of which has 10 perks, apart from Strength and Agility which only have 9 for a total of 48 perks. First let us address that imbalance:

Perception previously had Lockpicking, which is now (weirdly) been moved to Intelligence. Let's just give that back to Perception first. Now perception has 11 skills, so we'll move Animal Tracker to Agility.

Intelligence dropped to 9 skills so we'll split the overpowered "Advanced Engineering" into "Engineering" and "Electronics", the latter taking over the "bonus XP from electrical traps" function. This brings Intelligence back up to 10.

Strength still only has 9, so we'll to think of something to add here. For now, we;ll just call this "Perk X" and move on. I sure there are plenty of suggestions available to choose from.

Balance achieved, lets move onto the skill magazines:

For the most part these are fine, with each magazine being buffed by a singular perk, and attributing to a singular activity. But not all of them. The first problem has to deal with Tech Planet (Robotics) which governs both robots, and the batons.

So lets split this into two, with the new "Self Defence Weekly" covering batons. For good measure, we will also add a new Tier of baton - the "Shock Baton" which is an upgrade of the Stun baton, and comes with the mechanics of the Repulsor mod upgrade as standard (naturally the mod version will be removed) bring the weapon in line with other weapons in the game

The second problem is Armourer which applies to both heavy, and light armour - so we will split this also, with a new magazine called "Recon Tactics" that will now cater to light armour.

The final problem regards the perk providing buffs, rather than the magazines. Advanced Engineering awards the buff to 4 different magazines, and Lock-picking (for some inexplicable reason) awards the buff to Workstations, along with Advanced Engineering.

First, let's remove Lock-picking from the picture. it makes zero sense to have this buff any of these magazines, let alone Workstations.

Now, since we already split Advanced Engineering into two perks, we will have the first, Engineering apply to Workstations, and the second Electronics apply to Electrician, because this is a no-brainer. The remaining two magazines that were governed by Advanced Engineering a"Repair Tools", and "Traps"

IMO, neither of these magazines really needs a perk to buff them, as the former unlocks the Hammer at 4 magazines, and the Nailgun at 25. There is no real rush to unlock these tools either given their purpose.

The latter unlocks the dart, and blade trap, electrical fencing, and the auto-turrets. Again, I see no need to apply a perk buff, as these a mid to late game base defences by which time the player will likely have already collected enough magazines to unlock them without a buff.

[Slainpessimist]

Personally I think stats should be separate from the skills.
So have nodes for stats, melee, ranged, food, science, scavenging and building, or something like that. If I knew how to make a mod, that's what I would do.
Perception - crit/decapitation chance
Strength - extra damage per point
Agility - movement speed
fortitude - health per point
Int - extra exp % per point

Put skills into their other ctagories and take away the benefits that overlap with the stat ones to make you want to spec into them. But it's a more traditional RPG way of doing things.

[wirrora]

Originally posted by Slainpessimist:

But it's a more traditional RPG way of doing things.

When I threw all the newspapers into the mailboxes in the game Paper Boy in 1986, I could have guessed that somewhere some crazy person would come up with the idea that you could get them all out again.

I like Alpha 21, but the skill system sucks. Why not just learn from others instead of falling flat on "reinventing?"

[Monkey Magic]

Just gonna reiterate my forum post here:

Since it's unlikely The Fun Pimps will see this post, think its an awesome idea and integrate it into the next patch, I went ahead and made a new mod that achieves most of the functionality listed in the post. I will upload a link shortly to my mods page, but here is the breakdown of what it does:

Each Statistic now has 10 Perks
- Perception got Lockpicking back.

- Fortidude saw no changes.
- Animal Tracking was moved to Agility
- Strength got a new perk, Handy Man. (previously Perk X)
- Advanced Engineering was removed from Intellect, and replaced by two new perks - Engineering, and Electronics

Balance was achieved.

Magazines
The magazines are a little more tricksy, as I do not wish to add texture and so on that will likely have issues with servers. Ideally all my mod should work on servers without need for players to also download them. Therefore I could not add any additional magazines, nor the Tier 3 baton I would like to have in the game to bring that weapon on par with it's peers.

However, since Advanced Engineering was replaced, there was options to at least juggle the magazines it used to cater to a little. This can be seen below in the perk change list:


Perks
Lockpicking no longer affects workstation magazine frequency, because that made zero sense to me.
Handyman takes over Advanced Engineering's repair element, and affects repair tools magazine frequency.
Engineering takes over Advanced Engineering's crafting element, reduces crafting time for work stations and affects work station magazine frequency.
Electronics takes over Advanced Engineering's electronics element, provides experience from trap kills, and affects electronics and trap magazine frequency.
Electrocutioner no longer affects robotics magazine frequency

That said, here is a link to my Mod page on 7 Days to Die forum, where this new mod can be downloaded, along with several others:

https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/32249-wyr3ds-mods-a21-compatible/

[Greymantle]

Originally posted by Monkey Magic:

Just gonna reiterate my forum post here:

Since it's unlikely The Fun Pimps will see this post, think its an awesome idea and integrate it into the next patch, I went ahead and made a new mod that achieves most of the functionality listed in the post. I will upload a link shortly to my mods page, but here is the breakdown of what it does:

Each Statistic now has 10 Perks
- Perception got Lockpicking back.

- Fortidude saw no changes.
- Animal Tracking was moved to Agility
- Strength got a new perk, Handy Man. (previously Perk X)
- Advanced Engineering was removed from Intellect, and replaced by two new perks - Engineering, and Electronics

Balance was achieved.

Magazines
The magazines are a little more tricksy, as I do not wish to add texture and so on that will likely have issues with servers. Ideally all my mod should work on servers without need for players to also download them. Therefore I could not add any additional magazines, nor the Tier 3 baton I would like to have in the game to bring that weapon on par with it's peers.

However, since Advanced Engineering was replaced, there was options to at least juggle the magazines it used to cater to a little. This can be seen below in the perk change list:


Perks
Lockpicking no longer affects workstation magazine frequency, because that made zero sense to me.
Handyman takes over Advanced Engineering's repair element, and affects repair tools magazine frequency.
Engineering takes over Advanced Engineering's crafting element, reduces crafting time for work stations and affects work station magazine frequency.
Electronics takes over Advanced Engineering's electronics element, provides experience from trap kills, and affects electronics and trap magazine frequency.
Electrocutioner no longer affects robotics magazine frequency

That said, here is a link to my Mod page on 7 Days to Die forum, where this new mod can be downloaded, along with several others:

https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/32249-wyr3ds-mods-a21-compatible/

If you do a modlet that gets rid of the new book/magazine system please post and let us know. :)

[wirrora]

Originally posted by Greymantle:

If you do a modlet that gets rid of the new book/magazine system please post and let us know. :)

This!

[Monkey Magic]

To be honest, I kinda like the new magazine system. I mean, sure it needs work, but it's miles better than the old A20 system that locked one out from a bunch of perks if they did not spec into the associated attributed, and force so, so many players (mostly harder level settings) to nerf their progression by demanding point sacrifice into Sexy Tyranosausus (incidentally, I never took that skill coz the name was stupid so I nerfed my stamina regen potential instead)

In my mind the best system would be one that both utilises the magazines (providing recipes, and a static chunk of skill EXP with each item) and the learn by doing system (providing a slow, continuous trickle of skill EXP over time with use in a given field)

So, for example, shotgun books would unlock the tiers of each weapon as with A21, and the associated benefits, and some skill EXP, while actually using the shotgun would slowly provide more of the latter

But in all likelyhood this wouldn't make everyone happy either. Facts are, that no matter what system is implemented, the Devs are not gonna be able to please everyone, because they have already made changes to how things work several times already.

This is where the term "if it' ain't broke, don't fix it" comes in: if players had never had the option to see different systems, they would never have complained, even if the original system was bad.

That said,

While I don't plan on making a mod that removes the magazine system, it would be a simple matter to at least dumb it down for players who are too lazy to run around collecting the sheer numbers required to unlock everything:

Just create a mod that adjusts the number of magazines required to unlock everything to smaller numbers. For example, let's assume we set the value to 10. There are more than enough magazine spawning containers available that a player could conceivably achieve this by end of Day 1, Day 2 at most if they have bad RNG.

Setting the value to 1 would likely assure a Day 1 total unlock. Zero is also an option, but would likely be more involved as one would also have to set all the recipes to start as unlocked.

Another option would be to associate unlocks back with their associated perk, but this would involve a lot more work, especially if one did not want to just steal the code from A20 which would include the need for speccing into the associated attribute.

Any yet...

I do not intend on making either of these mods either. First off, the chances are The Fun Pimps will take notice of all the feedback, and drop the number of magazines required for certain perks in any case, because their progression is too slow/boring.

Secondly, even with the nerf to magazine drops that b317 brought it, magazines are still abundant in the game. In addition to looting POIs, quest rewards, Mob loot bags and purchasing from the Trader, there are Treasure Chests, and Air Drops (both of which have been buffed in A20) which pretty much has one covered.

Good luck making the mod yourself though. The best way to get an aspect of a game to work the way you want it to, is to make it happen yourself ;3

[Nocternaldaze]

Originally posted by Monkey Magic:

To be honest, I kinda like the new magazine system. I mean, sure it needs work, but it's miles better than the old A21 system that locked one out from a bunch of perks if they did not spec into the associated attributed

Wait what, are you saying A22 is out already.

[Monkey Magic]

Oof typos. I've been writing mods all day XD

[Nocternaldaze]

Originally posted by Monkey Magic:

Oof typos. I've been writing mods all day XD

It`s all good Monkey Magic if i had a dollar for every typo i made i would be rich by now lol.

[Greymantle]

I wish each book would give more per book/magazine so we can cut down on a lot of the clutter which ruins my experience. This would be a good compromise for those that are not fond of the new system.

[nowhere man]

Originally posted by Greymantle:

Originally posted by Monkey Magic:

Just gonna reiterate my forum post here:

Since it's unlikely The Fun Pimps will see this post, think its an awesome idea and integrate it into the next patch, I went ahead and made a new mod that achieves most of the functionality listed in the post. I will upload a link shortly to my mods page, but here is the breakdown of what it does:

Each Statistic now has 10 Perks
- Perception got Lockpicking back.

- Fortidude saw no changes.
- Animal Tracking was moved to Agility
- Strength got a new perk, Handy Man. (previously Perk X)
- Advanced Engineering was removed from Intellect, and replaced by two new perks - Engineering, and Electronics

Balance was achieved.

Magazines
The magazines are a little more tricksy, as I do not wish to add texture and so on that will likely have issues with servers. Ideally all my mod should work on servers without need for players to also download them. Therefore I could not add any additional magazines, nor the Tier 3 baton I would like to have in the game to bring that weapon on par with it's peers.

However, since Advanced Engineering was replaced, there was options to at least juggle the magazines it used to cater to a little. This can be seen below in the perk change list:


Perks
Lockpicking no longer affects workstation magazine frequency, because that made zero sense to me.
Handyman takes over Advanced Engineering's repair element, and affects repair tools magazine frequency.
Engineering takes over Advanced Engineering's crafting element, reduces crafting time for work stations and affects work station magazine frequency.
Electronics takes over Advanced Engineering's electronics element, provides experience from trap kills, and affects electronics and trap magazine frequency.
Electrocutioner no longer affects robotics magazine frequency

That said, here is a link to my Mod page on 7 Days to Die forum, where this new mod can be downloaded, along with several others:

https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/32249-wyr3ds-mods-a21-compatible/

If you do a modlet that gets rid of the new book/magazine system please post and let us know. :)

That's going to suck for sure. The game revolves around it so much now that modding it out means another game, and I doubt an unpaid modder could do a good enough job to make it what TFP (paid by us) should be doing to their own game. Big L for the community.

[Nocternaldaze]

Originally posted by nowhere man:

Originally posted by Greymantle:

If you do a modlet that gets rid of the new book/magazine system please post and let us know. :)

That's going to suck for sure. The game revolves around it so much now that modding it out means another game, and I doubt an unpaid modder could do a good enough job to make it what TFP (paid by us) should be doing to their own game. Big L for the community.

The fun pimps have always said that they are glad that there is a modding community and highly encourage modders to continue modding the game. In fact they never used to give links to mods but now they do and have done for some time now.

[Monkey Magic]

Fun fact, there's already a T3 baton in the game files that's been commented out. I may look inti this later and see if it can be added into the game without issues :)

[projectmayhem]

I've already made a mod that splits Batons and Turrets into their own Unlock trees. I want to add another Baton to the game, either a Police baton or a bladed Baton - but I have no idea how to take purchased 3d assets and turn them into models the game can use.

I wasnt a fan of how long it took to unlock the junk turret, its not that great of an item imo, and I've barely used it past Day 21. Mainly just as an early warning system for when zombies are above me while I am digging.

I also wasnt aware there was a T3 Baton already in the game files Monkey Magic -- Im glad I saw your comment. I will also check that out and see about adding it to my mod

[projectmayhem]

The commented out Baton is the same as the Stun Baton. Same graphic and everything