Reloading the lever-action rifle

[carlosspicywiener]

So this is thing, i think.

Say you fire one round form the Lever-action-Rifle and reload, you might think it puts one round back. The reload animation shows you it puts 3 back, but there still 5 rounds max in the rifle, so where do the other bullets go?

Say you fire 4 rounds and reload, the animation still reloads 3 rounds and tada... you have 5 rounds in you're rifle, still one less and expected.

I think the animation is way off in A21.

Sure I can understand that If you reload a gun or revolver, you put ammo out and in, no rocket science. But the lever-action revolver... 3 rounds for all....

[Mithrandir]

Originally posted by Captain Pike:

Originally posted by Mithrandir:

This.

I've never seen variable animations depending on the quantity of ammo to load since I've started playing (2015). I don't even remember seeing it in any shooter game I've played. And, IMO, it's mod material only as I doubt it bothers a significant part of the playerbase.

Several CoD games, some Battlefield games, and Rust have fractional reloading to some degree. It's been a mechanic in shooters since at least World at War in like 2007.

These are just games I personally recalled having it, I am sure there are more.

I'm glad for the info, I've never played CoD and Rust. Do you really see your character single loading different number of shells in a pump shotgun based on what's left in it with the duration of the animation varying based on the number of shells loaded ? If so, I'm impressed.

[Captain Pike]

Originally posted by Mithrandir:

Originally posted by Captain Pike:

Several CoD games, some Battlefield games, and Rust have fractional reloading to some degree. It's been a mechanic in shooters since at least World at War in like 2007.

These are just games I personally recalled having it, I am sure there are more.

I'm glad for the info, I've never played CoD and Rust. Do you really see your character single loading different number of shells in a pump shotgun based on what's left in it with the duration of the animation varying based on the number of shells loaded ? If so, I'm impressed.

Yeah and it's actually a feature I really appreciate in ammo management since I enjoy using bolt actions in particular. Reloading 1 round is safe enough but reloading 5 can be death. Those games also usually let you interrupt the reload at however many you had put in. Say I put 2 in but I hear someone coming, I can cancel to make him go ahead and rack the bolt and not be vulnerable.

Edit: Some of your more hardcore shooters like Hunt: Showdown take it step further too. They have all that and punish reload spam by making the ejection on an incomplete reload actually take the bullet away instead of magically reappearing.

[KellyR]

Originally posted by Mithrandir:

Originally posted by Captain Pike:

Several CoD games, some Battlefield games, and Rust have fractional reloading to some degree. It's been a mechanic in shooters since at least World at War in like 2007.

These are just games I personally recalled having it, I am sure there are more.

I'm glad for the info, I've never played CoD and Rust. Do you really see your character single loading different number of shells in a pump shotgun based on what's left in it with the duration of the animation varying based on the number of shells loaded ? If so, I'm impressed.

Left4Dead also does this. Better yet, you could interrupt the reload and fire if you needed to, and you'd have as many shells as you'd actually loaded during the reload. You could even avoid having to charge the semi-auto shotgun again if you counted shots and always loaded another round or two before running completely dry, just like you can in RL.

Same with the pump, if you hadn't fired your last round yet, and reloaded, you wouldn't have to pump it again before firing. Was pretty cool for the time.

[Lucien Lachance]

Originally posted by william_es:

Originally posted by Lucien Lachance:

My favorite is when you're reloading something like the Tactical Rifle and you put the mag in and hit the bolt release, switch off to another slot, and then when you go to use the gun it isn't reloaded despite the fact that you hit the bolt release after switching mags. This is what makes games with realistic gun animations better.

The only people who go ballistic (pun intended) on this gun stuff are people who have, most likely, never held a real gun in their own hands, ever. And from what I see, they have a tendency to live in countries with the most restrictive gun laws, that make it nearly impossible for private citizens to even own a gun.

Lmao you couldn't be any more wrong.

[A Pebble]

Originally posted by william_es:

Originally posted by Lucien Lachance:

My favorite is when you're reloading something like the Tactical Rifle and you put the mag in and hit the bolt release, switch off to another slot, and then when you go to use the gun it isn't reloaded despite the fact that you hit the bolt release after switching mags. This is what makes games with realistic gun animations better.

This insn't one of those "gun porn" simulators, that's trying to simulate every aspect of reloading. Do you want the devs to switch focus and spend the next year making every single little nit picky thing perfect.

Most people I know who actually shoot frequently, completely ignore all these discrepancies. We don't even roll our eyes. We know it's wrong, we think about it for 1/100th of a second and get back to playing a game. Because that's all it is, it's a game. The same way a pilot watches scenes about cockpit controls in a movie. They know it's wrong, they don't care... it's just a movie.

The only people who go ballistic (pun intended) on this gun stuff are people who have, most likely, never held a real gun in their own hands, ever. And from what I see, they have a tendency to live in countries with the most restrictive gun laws, that make it nearly impossible for private citizens to even own a gun.

Yes, I would like for the devs to switch focus to actually polishing the game for once.
And I for one, own many guns and shoot them frequently. While I might not care all that much about inconsistencies in the mechanics, I would certainty like for them to MAKE SENSE. Like.. What the ♥♥♥♥ are the irons on the M9? (Pistol)

[Lucien Lachance]

Originally posted by A Pebble:

Originally posted by william_es:

This insn't one of those "gun porn" simulators, that's trying to simulate every aspect of reloading. Do you want the devs to switch focus and spend the next year making every single little nit picky thing perfect.

Most people I know who actually shoot frequently, completely ignore all these discrepancies. We don't even roll our eyes. We know it's wrong, we think about it for 1/100th of a second and get back to playing a game. Because that's all it is, it's a game. The same way a pilot watches scenes about cockpit controls in a movie. They know it's wrong, they don't care... it's just a movie.

The only people who go ballistic (pun intended) on this gun stuff are people who have, most likely, never held a real gun in their own hands, ever. And from what I see, they have a tendency to live in countries with the most restrictive gun laws, that make it nearly impossible for private citizens to even own a gun.

Yes, I would like for the devs to switch focus to actually polishing the game for once.
And I for one, own many guns and shoot them frequently. While I might not care all that much about inconsistencies in the mechanics, I would certainty like for them to MAKE SENSE. Like.. What the ♥♥♥♥ are the irons on the M9? (Pistol)

Lmao yeah the iron sights and scopes are so bad on some weapons.

[Me]

Originally posted by carlosspicywiener:

So this is thing, i think.

Say you fire one round form the Lever-action-Rifle and reload, you might think it puts one round back. The reload animation shows you it puts 3 back, but there still 5 rounds max in the rifle, so where do the other bullets go?

Say you fire 4 rounds and reload, the animation still reloads 3 rounds and tada... you have 5 rounds in you're rifle, still one less and expected.

I think the animation is way off in A21.

Sure I can understand that If you reload a gun or revolver, you put ammo out and in, no rocket science. But the lever-action revolver... 3 rounds for all....

The worst part about this is that when you only fire off one round when it's full and you want to top off back to five it forces you into the animation of reloading three and can potentially get the player killed since you get locked into the animation and you don't have your full movement speed.

No one should be confusing this with "a design choice" of how long they want the reload to take. This is a game bug no matter how you want to slice it.

The only consolation that The Fun Pimps gets in regards to this, and any other similar bug, is that they get the Golden Free Developer Pass in that the game is still "A Work In Progress".

If this is indeed "By Design" and "Working as intended" then that is just an excellent example of horrible and lazy game design. There's nothing restrictive about Unity that would prevent this from being done correctly.

[Postman Pat]

It's pretty clear gun handling and mechanics aren't a focus of the game, at least not right now. If you want top tier gun play, Killing Floor 2 exists, which is unparalleled as far as I'm concerned, although the game has continually gotten worse over the years and is filled with tiny purchase DLCs now.

That said, yeah it's annoying, and I'm sure one day they'll obviously enhance this, and combat in general. The fact that aiming is synced up the crosshair and not the sight when you ADS should be another big annoyance for you if this reload animation was a problem. And don't even get me started on the scope HUDs, and the red dot reticle being massive and non-adjustable either in size or brightness.

But I don't play this game for its hyper realistic combat mechanics. It's not like the melee weapons are any better.

[KellyR]

Originally posted by Maschinenkanone:

Originally posted by carlosspicywiener:

So this is thing, i think.

Say you fire one round form the Lever-action-Rifle and reload, you might think it puts one round back. The reload animation shows you it puts 3 back, but there still 5 rounds max in the rifle, so where do the other bullets go?

Say you fire 4 rounds and reload, the animation still reloads 3 rounds and tada... you have 5 rounds in you're rifle, still one less and expected.

I think the animation is way off in A21.

Sure I can understand that If you reload a gun or revolver, you put ammo out and in, no rocket science. But the lever-action revolver... 3 rounds for all....

The worst part about this is that when you only fire off one round when it's full and you want to top off back to five it forces you into the animation of reloading three and can potentially get the player killed since you get locked into the animation and you don't have your full movement speed.

No one should be confusing this with "a design choice" of how long they want the reload to take. This is a game bug no matter how you want to slice it.

The only consolation that The Fun Pimps gets in regards to this, and any other similar bug, is that they get the Golden Free Developer Pass in that the game is still "A Work In Progress".

If this is indeed "By Design" and "Working as intended" then that is just an excellent example of horrible and lazy game design. There's nothing restrictive about Unity that would prevent this from being done correctly.

You probably know this already, but just in case: You're never "trapped" in a reload animation. Changing your equipped item breaks the animation in an emergency. It still won't be reloaded, but at least you can sprint again, and use your melee weapon or whatever.

[Me]

Originally posted by KellyR:

You probably know this already, but just in case: You're never "trapped" in a reload animation. Changing your equipped item breaks the animation in an emergency. It still won't be reloaded, but at least you can sprint again, and use your melee weapon or whatever.

You are correct you can break the reload animation by switching to something else. I gave a poor example.

A better example would be if you were fighting three enemies in a cramped location / boxed in and your melee weapon just broke - you switch to your rifle and kill two of them and you severely wound the 3rd with your 5th and final round. Now you want to reload only one round to finish him off but you're stuck in the animation and it will not let you fire the weapon until the animation is complete. So in that sense you would be locked in the full animation of 'visually' loading three rounds (even though it would load all five) when you only needed one.

Sure it's a specific scenario but I could think of a few others where it would similarly have the potential to get the player killed just because the animation is the way that it is, by design or it's a bug.

That too me is reason enough as to why they should correct this, and any of their other weapons that falsely reload in this way. If it was purely an aesthetic issue it wouldn't bother me too much, but this has the potential to get players killed.

[Me]

Originally posted by Postman Pat:

It's pretty clear gun handling and mechanics aren't a focus of the game, at least not right now. If you want top tier gun play, Killing Floor 2 exists, which is unparalleled as far as I'm concerned,

Agreed.

I've actually thought to myself in years past of how amazing 7 days to die would be if it had KF2's gun-play. That will hopefully happen eventually (probably with another game) but may be many years off from now.

[Cellar_Cat]

The weapon animations in this game are a weird mix of being well made but technically wrong on such a basic level that even a layman like me can see how wrong they are. The struggle to reload pipe weapons for instance actually does a really good job of making them feel stiff, but when I fire the break action pipe rifle there's no casing to remove when I open it...

To make it weirder they seem to have thought of this for the shotgun and pistol which makes it somehow bother me more lol.

But, it's still in alpha so idk, maybe they will do a believability pass on these someday.

[KellyR]

Originally posted by Maschinenkanone:

Originally posted by Postman Pat:

It's pretty clear gun handling and mechanics aren't a focus of the game, at least not right now. If you want top tier gun play, Killing Floor 2 exists, which is unparalleled as far as I'm concerned,

Agreed.

I've actually thought to myself in years past of how amazing 7 days to die would be if it had KF2's gun-play. That will hopefully happen eventually (probably with another game) but may be many years off from now.

TBH, if you want brilliant gunplay... Get a VR headset. No pancake game will ever compare to actually counting bullets and keeping track of which magazines have how many, dropping mags and actually doing the reloads yourself, pulling the charging handle, etc. You can't get the same feeling just pushing a button on your keyboard.

[Me]

Originally posted by KellyR:

Originally posted by Maschinenkanone:

Agreed.

I've actually thought to myself in years past of how amazing 7 days to die would be if it had KF2's gun-play. That will hopefully happen eventually (probably with another game) but may be many years off from now.

TBH, if you want brilliant gunplay... Get a VR headset. No pancake game will ever compare to actually counting bullets and keeping track of which magazines have how many, dropping mags and actually doing the reloads yourself, pulling the charging handle, etc. You can't get the same feeling just pushing a button on your keyboard.

Or I could get in the car and go to the gun range irl : )

[KellyR]

Originally posted by Maschinenkanone:

Originally posted by KellyR:

TBH, if you want brilliant gunplay... Get a VR headset. No pancake game will ever compare to actually counting bullets and keeping track of which magazines have how many, dropping mags and actually doing the reloads yourself, pulling the charging handle, etc. You can't get the same feeling just pushing a button on your keyboard.

Or I could get in the car and go to the gun range irl : )

Just saying, KF2 may have cool guns, but the best gun handling experiences I've had in games have been VR and it's sort of something flat screen games can't touch.

Surv1v3, Dead Effect 2, Hot Dogs Horseshoes & Hand Grenades... Even Arizona Sunshine and After the Fall, all have gunplay you can't get outside VR or RL.

There's a brilliant VR mod for 7 Days, actually, but obviously it doesn't have detailed gun handling. We can hope it might some day though :D