Tactics for Always Run, Nightmare, Insane Difficulty

[Fragment Fox]

I've been playing since 2014 A7 (about a month before A8 dropped). I'm interested in hearing what other hardcore players do at the start of a new hardcore world. It seems like A21 is much more difficult or maybe I'm just rusty.

I used to use a sneak bow and arrow, blunderbuss then melee once a zombie was knocked out. I've also used an arch wood frame like 3 high 3 over and 3 down for an upside-down U if I encounter a zombie in the open but now I've tried to make more a double U and L shape if that makes sense.

Starting out what's the best methods, weapon and tactics for this difficulty?

[Zaidah]

You should lvl up the melee skill of your weapon of choice whenever you can. This way, you'll quickly get more damage, a better weapon and less issue with stamina (which allows you to spam heavy attack).

Another thing for the start of the game, that might sound a bit cheesy, is to have construction blocks ready so you can elevate yourself from 2 block and kill zombies from here. They might manage to get up if there are 2 or more of them on the same side, but if you manage to lure them in a different side (depending of which edge you're the closer from), you can even avoid that issue.

POI's can be delicate as some room are way harder that other (even for same tier's POIs), and aren't necessarily balanced with "always run" in mind. You gotta learn which one are easier to handle and which one are not (if the later, then you should create you own safer way by destroying some blocks).

Bow can be good early to get a sneak attack bonus damage, or shooting from a safer place. You'll need to shoot a lot of arrow though, so it's quite slow, but necessary for the first few quest untils you get some lvl in your melee skill and a better weapon (guns as well in case things go wrong).

[Survival Gamer]

Originally posted by Fragment Fox:

I've been playing since 2014 A7 (about a month before A8 dropped). I'm interested in hearing what other hardcore players do at the start of a new hardcore world. It seems like A21 is much more difficult or maybe I'm just rusty.

I used to use a sneak bow and arrow, blunderbuss then melee once a zombie was knocked out. I've also used an arch wood frame like 3 high 3 over and 3 down for an upside-down U if I encounter a zombie in the open but now I've tried to make more a double U and L shape if that makes sense.

Starting out what's the best methods, weapon and tactics for this difficulty?

Alpha 20 and 21 are more difficult from earlier versions owing to improved zombie AI and new types of zombies that can blow a hole in a base wall (further in the progression). Alpha 21 is significantly more tedious owing to the changes to water and not being able to make glass jars or to reuse water containers. Requiring farming for skills books in Alpha 21 has also made it more tedious and a bit less control over what you choose to do.

[Sundaysmiles]

You're also going to have to deal with criticals at some point, sinking at least one perk point into Healing Factor will help in a big way in reducing the healing times even after mending them.

Parkour from the agility tree is also helluva useful for outrunning zombies, leaping over fences, up onto rooftops of smaller structures and anywhere that can give you a breather to heal, catch your breath or gun down larger groups of zeds.

[Bif]

I recommend the level 5 SMG with a drum magazine, silencer, semi-auto action, and 2x scope. Plan on that from day 1 and put all your points in pistol, sneakiness, and sneak damage, which will require points in agility. 9mm ammo is cheap and cost-effective--important when killing is a volume business. And yet, keep a level 5 M60 as backup--sometimes you just need to level the playing field.

By far the most important ingredient in your success is cheese. Anything that you can cheese, you must cheese. Prepare a cobblestone ladder to climb later; any lesser ladder will not be there when you need it. Prepare a high-up building block pathway, then pick up the pathway behind you. Prepare fighting positions where you cannot be followed. Beware of postal workers with weak stomachs and of adamantium-beaked birds, however. Never drop down into an empty room.

Your base should eventually be a steel tower built on bedrock, with at least 11x11 in floor space, 12 blocks from the side of the pit to any structure, and a strong steel roof. You can fill the pit with traps to discourage missionaries. Try not to hang out there much, better to have a dummy base for the big weekly pow-wows.

I hope this helps. You really are living on the bleeding edge.

[Fragment Fox]

Originally posted by Bif:

I recommend the level 5 SMG with a drum magazine, silencer, semi-auto action, and 2x scope. Plan on that from day 1 and put all your points in pistol, sneakiness, and sneak damage, which will require points in agility. 9mm ammo is cheap and cost-effective--important when killing is a volume business. And yet, keep a level 5 M60 as backup--sometimes you just need to level the playing field.

By far the most important ingredient in your success is cheese. Anything that you can cheese, you must cheese. Prepare a cobblestone ladder to climb later; any lesser ladder will not be there when you need it. Prepare a high-up building block pathway, then pick up the pathway behind you. Prepare fighting positions where you cannot be followed. Beware of postal workers with weak stomachs and of adamantium-beaked birds, however. Never drop down into an empty room.

Your base should eventually be a steel tower built on bedrock, with at least 11x11 in floor space, 12 blocks from the side of the pit to any structure, and a strong steel roof. You can fill the pit with traps to discourage missionaries. Try not to hang out there much, better to have a dummy base for the big weekly pow-wows.

I hope this helps. You really are living on the bleeding edge.

Yes I think this helps. I was going for an intellect build but I think Agility is a better investment.

[Bif]

Originally posted by Fragment Fox:

Originally posted by Bif:

I recommend the level 5 SMG with a drum magazine, silencer, semi-auto action, and 2x scope. Plan on that from day 1 and put all your points in pistol, sneakiness, and sneak damage, which will require points in agility. 9mm ammo is cheap and cost-effective--important when killing is a volume business. And yet, keep a level 5 M60 as backup--sometimes you just need to level the playing field.

By far the most important ingredient in your success is cheese. Anything that you can cheese, you must cheese. Prepare a cobblestone ladder to climb later; any lesser ladder will not be there when you need it. Prepare a high-up building block pathway, then pick up the pathway behind you. Prepare fighting positions where you cannot be followed. Beware of postal workers with weak stomachs and of adamantium-beaked birds, however. Never drop down into an empty room.

Your base should eventually be a steel tower built on bedrock, with at least 11x11 in floor space, 12 blocks from the side of the pit to any structure, and a strong steel roof. You can fill the pit with traps to discourage missionaries. Try not to hang out there much, better to have a dummy base for the big weekly pow-wows.

I hope this helps. You really are living on the bleeding edge.

Yes I think this helps. I was going for an intellect build but I think Agility is a better investment.

I should point out that building your base on bedrock is not very practical. Instead, you should replace any stone dug out from under your base with steel blocks, which eventually will reach bedrock if you play long enough at max difficulty. Even with an auger, building on bedrock will take more time than it saves.

You can make your base out of bars, rather than solid blocks. They are exactly the same in every way, zeds treat them the same, and yet you can shoot through them.

Finally, turrets pretty much solve any problem, so long as you keep them fed with AP ammo. It only takes 8 turrets to secure a base, so long as you give the zeds tightropes to walk toward the turrets on. Use the thinnest block and with the block selected hold down your reload button until you see the advanced rotation option. Edgewise, these thin blocks make fine turret kill zones. Assuming there is a pit around your base, be sure to maintain a way out for zeds knocked off the tightropes by the turrets, or the zeds will content themselves with undercutting your base.

[Kara]

My question is why would you even do that..? Difficulty ONLY makes the zombies more or less bullet sponges. No one mentioned how broken their animations are sometimes hitting you without so much as moving a muscle. And their ""reach"" is farther than their hands so you are dodging an invisible attack pretty much every time you try to kite one. I've been hit by zombies knocked face down as well.

Sounds like a lot of time wasted standing on nerd blocks shooting 20-30 stone arrows with a lvl1 twig bow to kill one zombie at a time.

[Bif]

Originally posted by Kara:

My question is why would you even do that..? Difficulty ONLY makes the zombies more or less bullet sponges. No one mentioned how broken their animations are sometimes hitting you without so much as moving a muscle. And their ""reach"" is farther than their hands so you are dodging an invisible attack pretty much every time you try to kite one. I've been hit by zombies knocked face down as well.

Sounds like a lot of time wasted standing on nerd blocks shooting 20-30 stone arrows with a lvl1 twig bow to kill one zombie at a time.

So do something else. To me, it's fun.

[Kara]

Originally posted by Bif:

Originally posted by Kara:

My question is why would you even do that..? Difficulty ONLY makes the zombies more or less bullet sponges. No one mentioned how broken their animations are sometimes hitting you without so much as moving a muscle. And their ""reach"" is farther than their hands so you are dodging an invisible attack pretty much every time you try to kite one. I've been hit by zombies knocked face down as well.

Sounds like a lot of time wasted standing on nerd blocks shooting 20-30 stone arrows with a lvl1 twig bow to kill one zombie at a time.

So do something else. To me, it's fun.

You aren't the op

[Bif]

Originally posted by Kara:

Originally posted by Bif:

So do something else. To me, it's fun.

You aren't the op :buzzed:

The op wanted to discuss builds/weapons/tactics for the hardest settings. You feel that's a waste of time. I am enjoying the discussion & frankly the op seems solid, worthy of whatever assistance I can provide (which is nowhere near the best out there).

I don't know anything about you, Kara, other than you reject the premise of the thread--tactics/weapons/builds for high difficulty levels. I offer you room to maneuver, options. You might be better served by some other activity.

Okay I looked you up and read your posts. You're generally okay. But you're taking up space in a good thread, just saying. Govern yourself as you wish, but your history is not at all the troll or curmudgeon. Maybe take a sec to reflect on who you really are--I'm thinking a good human, a fairly sensitive individual. Could be wrong.

[Shot of Depresso]

Originally posted by Fragment Fox:

I've been playing since 2014 A7 (about a month before A8 dropped). I'm interested in hearing what other hardcore players do at the start of a new hardcore world. It seems like A21 is much more difficult or maybe I'm just rusty.

I used to use a sneak bow and arrow, blunderbuss then melee once a zombie was knocked out. I've also used an arch wood frame like 3 high 3 over and 3 down for an upside-down U if I encounter a zombie in the open but now I've tried to make more a double U and L shape if that makes sense.

Starting out what's the best methods, weapon and tactics for this difficulty?

Super early game use your torch and a bone knife to stack DoTs, then swap over to your melee of choice or if so inclined back up and shoot them with your bow. This is a quick, low-risk way to chip down their health and conserve stamina while doing so.

THen you want to hard focus your skillpoints into whatever weapon skill you want, Pain Tolerance is great for reducing the risk of stuns, picking up a couple of points in your armor skill of choice is pretty helpful as well.

I personally quite like Healing Factor because it means that often times you won't even need to use healing items outside of combat, so long as you can stay out of combat for enough time for the health regen to matter. It also reduces the heal time of critical injuries which is just a really nice QoL thing to have. When paired with Physician you can turn most critical injuries into a joke.
That wood framr pole still works, but just remember to upgrade the third block up so that they don't break it. Most of the time they won't even target the bottom of the pole.

Main thing in melee combat is keeping an eye on your stamina and watching your distance. There are always going to be odd occasions where you get extendo-armed or something breaks in their animation.

Try not to swing if it'll put you out of stamina, wait a few seconds between every swing and keep moving back. If you're playing on nightmare speed, clubs and sledgehammers are by far the best options because they'll knock zeds over, fists are a pretty close second as they also have decent knockdown power.

[Bif]

Originally posted by Swamp Trash:

Originally posted by Fragment Fox:

I've been playing since 2014 A7 (about a month before A8 dropped). I'm interested in hearing what other hardcore players do at the start of a new hardcore world. It seems like A21 is much more difficult or maybe I'm just rusty.

I used to use a sneak bow and arrow, blunderbuss then melee once a zombie was knocked out. I've also used an arch wood frame like 3 high 3 over and 3 down for an upside-down U if I encounter a zombie in the open but now I've tried to make more a double U and L shape if that makes sense.

Starting out what's the best methods, weapon and tactics for this difficulty?

Super early game use your torch and a bone knife to stack DoTs, then swap over to your melee of choice or if so inclined back up and shoot them with your bow. This is a quick, low-risk way to chip down their health and conserve stamina while doing so.

THen you want to hard focus your skillpoints into whatever weapon skill you want, Pain Tolerance is great for reducing the risk of stuns, picking up a couple of points in your armor skill of choice is pretty helpful as well.

I personally quite like Healing Factor because it means that often times you won't even need to use healing items outside of combat, so long as you can stay out of combat for enough time for the health regen to matter. It also reduces the heal time of critical injuries which is just a really nice QoL thing to have. When paired with Physician you can turn most critical injuries into a joke.
That wood framr pole still works, but just remember to upgrade the third block up so that they don't break it. Most of the time they won't even target the bottom of the pole.

Main thing in melee combat is keeping an eye on your stamina and watching your distance. There are always going to be odd occasions where you get extendo-armed or something breaks in their animation.

Try not to swing if it'll put you out of stamina, wait a few seconds between every swing and keep moving back. If you're playing on nightmare speed, clubs and sledgehammers are by far the best options because they'll knock zeds over, fists are a pretty close second as they also have decent knockdown power.

I'd say you were nuts for playing melee at all on the highest difficulty except you're making sense. Should work since mostly they just get more HPs.

[Shot of Depresso]

Originally posted by Bif:

Originally posted by Swamp Trash:

Super early game use your torch and a bone knife to stack DoTs, then swap over to your melee of choice or if so inclined back up and shoot them with your bow. This is a quick, low-risk way to chip down their health and conserve stamina while doing so.

THen you want to hard focus your skillpoints into whatever weapon skill you want, Pain Tolerance is great for reducing the risk of stuns, picking up a couple of points in your armor skill of choice is pretty helpful as well.

I personally quite like Healing Factor because it means that often times you won't even need to use healing items outside of combat, so long as you can stay out of combat for enough time for the health regen to matter. It also reduces the heal time of critical injuries which is just a really nice QoL thing to have. When paired with Physician you can turn most critical injuries into a joke.
That wood framr pole still works, but just remember to upgrade the third block up so that they don't break it. Most of the time they won't even target the bottom of the pole.

Main thing in melee combat is keeping an eye on your stamina and watching your distance. There are always going to be odd occasions where you get extendo-armed or something breaks in their animation.

Try not to swing if it'll put you out of stamina, wait a few seconds between every swing and keep moving back. If you're playing on nightmare speed, clubs and sledgehammers are by far the best options because they'll knock zeds over, fists are a pretty close second as they also have decent knockdown power.

I'd say you were nuts for playing melee at all on the highest difficulty except you're making sense. Should work since mostly they just get more HPs.

One thing to always keep in mind when meleeing is that this game's melee system is busted, you'll frequently have hits that just don't connect for seemingly no reason, or the zombie's animation will glitch out and they'll neo duck (read: teleport into their crawling animation) for no reason at all,, or worse, lurch at you when you hit them and hit you while they're stunned. Never before have I played a game that constantly makes me just go -_- when I die, because I'd say out of every 5 deaths at least one of them is complete BS caused by a glitch or some form of jankiness. Vultures are the absolute WORST about melee hits just not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ landing despite your crosshair being right over their body and them being well within range, top that with the janky way they move and how they'll constantly fake you out and they're the most obnoxious enemy in the game by far.