Was there ever a time when you considered this a realistic zombie survival game?

[Crashtian]

Was there ever a time when you considered this a realistic zombie survival game?

Opinion: I've, never considered this game to be a "realistic" survival game. The only reason I even picked the game up originally over something like mine craft was because of the building physics, but those "realistic" survival things, they aren't even realistic physics things.

IDK what more survival I would really want in 7DTD.

I don't play it for for the types of harcore "survival" you get from games like Green Hell, Rust, Oxygen Not Included, Don't Starve, Project Zomboid. I never thought it would end that kind of survival game, and if i want to play those kinds of survival games, well, someone made them thankfully. (Haha while this game was developing.)

For a long time, 7DTD was just adult minecraft (Honestly the best times, #BringbackBees) It's only recently it even started to get kind of "hardcore survival" vibes, and none of these new systems are any less or more realistic than any of the ones we've had before.

I still do what I have always done, which is go out with and ADHD, sometimes put all my stuff into a box and eventually build a thing to see if I can defend it. Now I just also do quests at random. Never have I been like "immersed" in the idea of surviving the zombie Apocalypse in this game, because the game has never taken that concept super seriously to begin with, being more akin to an 80/90's zombie movie sim than a life simulator.

Which is all I ever wanted from this game, collecting stuff, fortifying stuff and killing zombies that come at it with traps and weapons knowing that your stuff could actually fall apart. I never expected it to be anything else.

7DTD, It aint got no winner, it don't got no objective. You're just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ building ♥♥♥♥ and seeing if other things can come and knock it down.

TL;DR ;IMO 7DTD has always just been 80's/90's zombie movie adult Minecraft.

[chris200x9]

I always saw it as an adult version playing "house" with zombies added. You could basically chill and cook, farm, build, craft, explore/loot, shoot the occasional zombie, and defend your base. It was basically a sandbox game, but as others have pointed out it has become a quest driven dungeon game. You can't level up by skills by doing, crafting is all but meaningless, farming is nerfed, you have to loot all day just to survive, etc.

I personally feel a lot of realism complaints aren't about realism or the lack there of. I think no one expects an ultra-realistic game but players do expect some semblance of realism and are upset at the absurd and arbitrary nature of it all. For example, I can build a complex trap but I can't boil an egg.

[Highlander]

My realistic came in the form of the aspects of the game Example like having a ton of food in a chest that never goes bad no frig and a food timer before it spoils or being able to carry tons of rocks and other stuff like your the hulk no weight restrictions or eating and drinking a weeks worth of food to survive a day i can throw out many more but i guess you get the picture . So to make a long story short i never considered this game realistic because its all far fetched BS that as no feel of realism. Im sure i will have a knucklehead say well zombies are not real DUH i know that but i try to put in my head if this was real how would i survive and this game gives ZERO feel for realism .

[Sanquin]

Originally posted by chris200x9:

For example, I can build a complex trap but I can't boil an egg.

Or how about "I can shoot a gun right before this certain trigger in the "building" (dungeon) and no zombie is alerted, but if I take one step further, while sneaking, with max sneak skill, suddenly 2 zombies burst through a box or wall and another 2 drop from the ceiling."

And what about "this is supposedly a zombie survival game, but I encounter 95% of the zombies outside of hordes in buildings through aforementioned triggers."

Not to mention "See that lake over there? Or that snow? Literally impossible to get water from that! Instead I have to find dirty or clean water by looting stuff or collect dew. Nope, impossible, no water from that lake or from all that snow..."

And lastly "I've made several dozen of these axes, but I'm just as terrible at it as when I made my first one. Practice makes perfect? What's that...? Oh, a random magazine about tools! I can make better axes now!"

And there's a lot more, no doubt. It's not about realism really. The game was never realistic. It's about what "makes sense" within the game. And none of the above make sense. At all.

Today I actually decided (for the first time ever) to just forget about the new update and play an older version instead. A16, the last time I properly had fun in the game. And my god the experience is so much better already.

Zombies are harder to hit in the head and actually a little bit thougher to kill. Buildings are actually just buildings you need to break in to instead of dungeons with a predetermined path. No triggers at all and instead sleeper zombies laying around making sneaking viable again. On that note, no sneak skill so you always have to be careful of alerting nearby (sleeper) zombies if you want to go with that playstyle. The old durability and upgrade system for blocks which was so much better imo. The heat/cold system having an actual noticeable effect. And the list goes on. The only thing I'm missing from newer versions is weapon/armor/tool mods. But I can live with that.

[Mithrandir]

Opinion : Same. I never considered this as a realistic survival game. I dislike RL sim based mechanics as they become tedious fast. I've stopped playing The forest as soon as I tried to carry some wood, no way I'll bring only 2 pieces a trip. While it IS realistic to carry so few, I find it utterly boring in a game meant to entertain.

[Segovax]

There are no "realistic" survival games because if they were realistic they would not be fun.

I've found it more enjoyable than other games while offering the same level of immersion. It has a spooky environment, desolate and zombies are varying degrees of dangerous based especially on the stupidity of the player.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

I think the issue isn't that it was ever supposed to be ultra realistic but that it used to be realistic enough to pass.

Suspension of disbelief is an important aspect of any game, especially a survival game. Any time you're jerked out of the disbelief you break tension, and in a survival game tension is important. The game used to be realistic enough that it mostly kept the tension and mostly didn't do anything too overtly immersion breaking but the farther along it goes the more things that pop up that really drag me right out of what I'm doing and wave the "it's literally just a set piece" flag in my face.

I really don't like that, and the game didn't use to do it quite as bad as it does now. Even games that are totally unrealistic can have rules that they follow consistently in the world of the game. For example don't starve the night monster doesn't ever attack you during the day. Now imagine if, for some reason, you went into an area of the map and the night monster suddenly killed you. You'd be really confused because the game had already made a point that light was supposed to keep it away. 7 days does the same thing with zombies. It tells you they come to loud noises, until it's really inconvenient for you for them to not do that.

The other thing at least for me is the feeling of "yeah I deserved that I made a mistake" vs "How was I supposed to know that was a thing".

I don't care about dying in a survival game, that's what happens in survival games, you die eventually, but how I die is pretty important.

If I died because I forgot to check a corner, stayed out too long, or did something foolish that's one thing and that's on me. If I died because I went into a room with nothing in it and then things magically appeared behind me and in front of me and I get murdered while I'm trying to figure out what's going on I don't feel like that death was my fault so much as it was a cheap trick that I had no way of knowing was even there. Once I realize there's multiple tricks like that, designed with the intention of being totally illogical, irrational, and impossible to spot unless you just knew it was there, I really lose all desire to keep playing.

7 days didn't used to do that much if at all, now it's in half the POI's I run into and the only reason I don't die repeatedly is because I'm well aware of the cheesy things they do and constantly on the lookout for it, but it's still not what I would call fun.

[Vi-El]

Originally posted by Crashtian:

Was there ever a time when you considered this a realistic zombie survival game?

Opinion: I've, never considered this game to be a "realistic" survival game. The only reason I even picked the game up originally over something like mine craft was because of the building physics, but those "realistic" survival things, they aren't even realistic physics things.

IDK what more survival I would really want in 7DTD.

I don't play it for for the types of harcore "survival" you get from games like Green Hell, Rust, Oxygen Not Included, Don't Starve, Project Zomboid. I never thought it would end that kind of survival game, and if i want to play those kinds of survival games, well, someone made them thankfully. (Haha while this game was developing.)

For a long time, 7DTD was just adult minecraft (Honestly the best times, #BringbackBees) It's only recently it even started to get kind of "hardcore survival" vibes, and none of these new systems are any less or more realistic than any of the ones we've had before.

I still do what I have always done, which is go out with and ADHD, sometimes put all my stuff into a box and eventually build a thing to see if I can defend it. Now I just also do quests at random. Never have I been like "immersed" in the idea of surviving the zombie Apocalypse in this game, because the game has never taken that concept super seriously to begin with, being more akin to an 80/90's zombie movie sim than a life simulator.

Which is all I ever wanted from this game, collecting stuff, fortifying stuff and killing zombies that come at it with traps and weapons knowing that your stuff could actually fall apart. I never expected it to be anything else.

7DTD, It aint got no winner, it don't got no objective. You're just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ building ♥♥♥♥ and seeing if other things can come and knock it down.

TL;DR ;IMO 7DTD has always just been 80's/90's zombie movie adult Minecraft.

As someone else already said, there is no such thing as a realistic survival game. Survival games if anything are always about immersion and up until more recently the game was still very immersive. Ever since A16, the game started to become less and less immersive and therefor less enjoyable.

It kept going and going up until now where even more of it was stripped.

A good example for a highly immersive and also difficult game is "Vintage Story". This game does not help you a single bit. It will not attempt to show you the way. It gives you a handbook and says "Figure it out kid" and lets you loose. The world is dangerous, Wolves and Bears will kill you. Food takes time to grow and your first house is a grand dirt shack with a door that will constantly fall apart till you found some copper to smelt into bars to create your first saw blade.

You can argue that the process into the copper age is realistic but the gameplay is more so immersive than anything. Cause realisticly it wouldnt take you such a short time to get things done.

[rincewind]

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

I think the issue isn't that it was ever supposed to be ultra realistic but that it used to be realistic enough to pass.

Suspension of disbelief is an important aspect of any game, especially a survival game. Any time you're jerked out of the disbelief you break tension, and in a survival game tension is important. The game used to be realistic enough that it mostly kept the tension and mostly didn't do anything too overtly immersion breaking but the farther along it goes the more things that pop up that really drag me right out of what I'm doing and wave the "it's literally just a set piece" flag in my face.

I really don't like that, and the game didn't use to do it quite as bad as it does now. Even games that are totally unrealistic can have rules that they follow consistently in the world of the game. For example don't starve the night monster doesn't ever attack you during the day. Now imagine if, for some reason, you went into an area of the map and the night monster suddenly killed you. You'd be really confused because the game had already made a point that light was supposed to keep it away. 7 days does the same thing with zombies. It tells you they come to loud noises, until it's really inconvenient for you for them to not do that.

The other thing at least for me is the feeling of "yeah I deserved that I made a mistake" vs "How was I supposed to know that was a thing".

I don't care about dying in a survival game, that's what happens in survival games, you die eventually, but how I die is pretty important.

If I died because I forgot to check a corner, stayed out too long, or did something foolish that's one thing and that's on me. If I died because I went into a room with nothing in it and then things magically appeared behind me and in front of me and I get murdered while I'm trying to figure out what's going on I don't feel like that death was my fault so much as it was a cheap trick that I had no way of knowing was even there. Once I realize there's multiple tricks like that, designed with the intention of being totally illogical, irrational, and impossible to spot unless you just knew it was there, I really lose all desire to keep playing.

7 days didn't used to do that much if at all, now it's in half the POI's I run into and the only reason I don't die repeatedly is because I'm well aware of the cheesy things they do and constantly on the lookout for it, but it's still not what I would call fun.

So isn't about realism or suspension of belief, is about POI design.
If we label things properly then we can convey better our feedback.

And yes, magical spawning zombies is not bueno. Particularly to players that use stealth.

[Somnion]

No, not even once. Games are supposed to be fictional.

Anytime i see someone complain that a game isn't realistic, it makes me want to vomit down my shirt.

MUH IMMERSHUN

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Originally posted by rincewind:

So isn't about realism or suspension of belief, is about POI design.
If we label things properly then we can convey better our feedback.

And yes, magical spawning zombies is not bueno. Particularly to players that use stealth.

I don't think you can really separate POI design from suspension of belief if the thing breaking the belief is the POI design but I agree with the fact that it really hurts stealth play which is bad for it's own host of reasons.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Originally posted by Bobaloui:

No, not even once. Games are supposed to be fictional.

Anytime i see someone complain that a game isn't realistic, it makes me want to vomit down my shirt.

MUH IMMERSHUN

See you say that, but imagine the next CoD game comes out or whatever the new popular shooter is and instead of guns killing people when you pull the trigger it spawns an angry clown that beats you to death unless you immediately start singing Toto's "Africa" into your mic and the way you actually had to kill people was walking up to them and pressing the start button to pull their pants down so they'd trip and break their neck.

Even if you don't want to admit it you're still immersed in a game and you have expectations for what happens in certain situations based on previous experience that's just how human beings work.

[rincewind]

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

Originally posted by Bobaloui:

No, not even once. Games are supposed to be fictional.

Anytime i see someone complain that a game isn't realistic, it makes me want to vomit down my shirt.

MUH IMMERSHUN

See you say that, but imagine the next CoD game comes out or whatever the new popular shooter is and instead of guns killing people when you pull the trigger it spawns an angry clown that beats you to death unless you immediately start singing Toto's "Africa" into your mic and the way you actually had to kill people was walking up to them and pressing the start button to pull their pants down so they'd trip and break their neck.

Even if you don't want to admit it you're still immersed in a game and you have expectations for what happens in certain situations based on previous experience that's just how human beings work.

That would be an improvement in my book.

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

Originally posted by rincewind:

So isn't about realism or suspension of belief, is about POI design.
If we label things properly then we can convey better our feedback.

And yes, magical spawning zombies is not bueno. Particularly to players that use stealth.

I don't think you can really separate POI design from suspension of belief if the thing breaking the belief is the POI design but I agree with the fact that it really hurts stealth play which is bad for it's own host of reasons.

Why overcomplicate the things?
Isn't easier and more useful to say: "spawning zombies from thin air are a problem, they should spawn before we get nowhere near."

Suspension in belief is subjective and varies from people to people. Some people wants realism some no. But the other is a concrete problem that can be pointed.

[Vi-El]

Originally posted by rincewind:

Why overcomplicate the things?
Isn't easier and more useful to say: "spawning zombies from thin air are a problem, they should spawn before we get nowhere near."

Suspension in belief is subjective and varies from people to people. Some people wants realism some no. But the other is a concrete problem that can be pointed.

Its because the issue itself is baked into the design.

You yourself said that it makes things less enjoyable for stealth right? Why is that? Cause by design it has invisible triggers. Which a dungeon system shouldnt need unless the devs think its for some reason an action game. An action game in which you can somehow spec into stealth.

Not trying to be mean or anything, I know I can come over like that sometimes lol

[JDaremo Fireheart]

Was there ever a time when you considered this a realistic zombie survival game?

Are you asking under the assumption that Zombies are real?
How can anything made up be "Realistic" in any way

[James]

Originally posted by JDaremo Fireheart:

Was there ever a time when you considered this a realistic zombie survival game?

Are you asking under the assumption that Zombies are real?

They are real. I had one that walk me down the isle once.