almost 10 years still alpha this is getting funny isnt it.

[skynet]

the term alpha is really losing its purpose, it should only be 1 year max in alpha not finisht bye kick from steam. some of these game's mis use the alpha stage way to much, i dit buy the game in 2013 whit the idee it wil be finisht whitin 1 year atleast 10 years later its still not done this is a joke.

[₵ⱤɄ₵ł₣łł]

When you look at end-user lawsuits involving defective equipment that harmed someone you'll quickly learn there is no second-hand shop loophole. consumer protection laws are for consumers. no court on the planet would listen to any argument about a EA game so again the big blue banner has no meaning for either side,..and TFP has violated STEAM EA and the profanity filter so... it has become a joke kinda like bandits and VR

[VideogameAddiction]

!C4ught/M3^withMYN4D30ut eredeti hozzászólása:

When you look at end-user lawsuits involving defective equipment that harmed someone you'll quickly learn there is no second-hand shop loophole. consumer protection laws are for consumers. no court on the planet would listen to any argument about a EA game so again the big blue banner has no meaning for either side,..and TFP has violated STEAM EA and the profanity filter so... it has become a joke kinda like bandits and VR

I think you would be laughed out of court if you claimed that this game harmed you...
You also say they violated Steam EA and don't say how.

[₵ⱤɄ₵ł₣łł]

VideogameAddiction eredeti hozzászólása:

!C4ught/M3^withMYN4D30ut eredeti hozzászólása:

When you look at end-user lawsuits involving defective equipment that harmed someone you'll quickly learn there is no second-hand shop loophole. consumer protection laws are for consumers. no court on the planet would listen to any argument about a EA game so again the big blue banner has no meaning for either side,..and TFP has violated STEAM EA and the profanity filter so... it has become a joke kinda like bandits and VR

I think you would be laughed out of court if you claimed that this game harmed you...
You also say they violated Steam EA and don't say how.

bandits have been long promised, steam EA dev rule is don't make specific promises simple enough for ya? VR,,,, bandits,.. water,... all in violation of steam Ea developer rules

[SylenThunder]

!C4ught/M3^withMYN4D30ut eredeti hozzászólása:

VideogameAddiction eredeti hozzászólása:

I think you would be laughed out of court if you claimed that this game harmed you...
You also say they violated Steam EA and don't say how.

bandits have been long promised, steam EA dev rule is don't make specific promises simple enough for ya? VR,,,, bandits,.. water,... all in violation of steam Ea developer rules:postalgimp:

When did they promise an end date and miss it?
None so far. Therefore, no violation.

VR... Always advertised as post-release. Even in the kickstarter.
Bandits... Only advertised as an upcoming feature. Still being worked on. Still being planned. Coming to a build near you.
Water... For years they have stated this system would be one of the last to be touched.

So what specific promises exactly are you ranting about?

Sounds like you have more nonsense than sense. No offense.

Did you actually read the Steam EA rules?

[Shurenai]

!C4ught/M3^withMYN4D30ut eredeti hozzászólása:

VideogameAddiction eredeti hozzászólása:

I think you would be laughed out of court if you claimed that this game harmed you...
You also say they violated Steam EA and don't say how.

bandits have been long promised, steam EA dev rule is don't make specific promises simple enough for ya? VR,,,, bandits,.. water,... all in violation of steam Ea developer rules:postalgimp:

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/earlyaccess
Rules:
2. Do not make specific promises about future events. For example, there is no way you can know exactly when the game will be finished, that the game will be finished, or that planned future additions will definitely happen. Do not ask your customers to bet on the future of your game. Customers should be buying your game based on its current state, not on promises of a future that may or may not be realized.
===
The interesting thing to note here is that TFP have not explicitly promised the things you mentioned.
They have stated that 'Bandits are still planned'; But did not say 'Bandits will definitely be in the game eventually.'; But they've put in a lot of effort to refine the pathing AI explicitly to suit bandits who should be more intelligent than their braindead counterparts.

They have stated that fixing up the water is something they'd like to do in the future- But not 'We'll definitely fix the water in Alpha 22' or any variation thereof; They're actually in the process of fixing water with A21 though, so... (And as Sylen said above, It's been the last thing on the priority list for awhile- They never explicitly promised it. They just never stopped mentioning it since people keep asking about it.)

Same with VR- The plan is to get VR going, but not until post-release. They have not explicitly promised that they would definitely do VR at XYZ date. Further, This is the one thing among the three that it doesn't really matter if they promise it at this point- VR has already been planned and promised since the kickstarter that preceded the games entry into Early Access- The promise was made BEFORE entering early access, and is thereby not subject to the early access rule.

The Early Access rule against specific promises is pretty specifically about stating dates such as the exact time the game will be finished, or when or even if a specific feature will be implemented 100% for sure- But more specifically, the rule is to avoid convincing customers to buy on 'what will be'. TFP have never gone out of their way to push sales of the game based on what will come in the future; So I doubt the application of the rule would stand.


And lastly, "We would like to..." "Or the current plan is...but that might change", etc, etc is NOT an explicit promise. Otherwise the holy Road Map that everyone begs for constantly wouldn't be allowable, as under that interpretation, by listing out future expectations/plans/goals they're explicitly promising them and thereby breaking early access rules. Which would be dumb, and you know it.

[₵ⱤɄ₵ł₣łł]

the argument on optimization is also asking the consumer to "bet" on the game ever getting finished, also a violation

[SylenThunder]

!C4ught/M3^withMYN4D30ut eredeti hozzászólása:

the argument on optimization is also asking the consumer to "bet" on the game ever getting finished, also a violation :iceye:

You mean that optimization isn't a major focus until Beta development?

That is literally just common developer sense. What argument are you talking about, and how the hell are you trying to turn this nonsense into a violation?

[Shurenai]

!C4ught/M3^withMYN4D30ut eredeti hozzászólása:

the argument on optimization is also asking the consumer to "bet" on the game ever getting finished, also a violation :iceye:

The developers rarely discuss optimization; But they do a fair amount of optimization as is- Enough to keep the game mostly playable for most people despite all the additions and changes. They have never upsaled copies of the game on the promise of more optimization in the future.

Other users and people in the know on game development ABC's have stated that it's incredibly stupid to spend all your time optimizing and bugfixing before adding everything in- It's a waste of time since you will inevitably break a bunch of your work when you add more things in that case. But Users were never asked or incentivized to 'bet' on the game being finished by TFP.

[₵ⱤɄ₵ł₣łł]

the fact that VR is on the Kickstarter page is also a specific promise even if "After release" asking the consumer to "BET" on the game ever being finished also a violation.

[Shurenai]

!C4ught/M3^withMYN4D30ut eredeti hozzászólása:

the fact that VR is on the Kickstarter page is also a specific promise even if "After release" asking the consumer to "BET" on the game ever being finished also a violation. :GATimp:

The kickstarter literally came BEFORE the game entered Early Access. And the rules of Early Access to not magically retroactively apply to things that occur BEFORE the game entered early access.

The whole point of Kickstarter is to outline what you would like for the future- Functionally making promises of what would be done with the money received from kickstarting, all in order to secure funding to begin on the journey of whatever thing your kickstarter is for.

But Kickstarter is NOT Steam's Early Access program. It's a completely different process owned by a different company with rules of it's own.

Like, What even are you trying to accomplish with this incredibly wrong statement? You're trying to twist facts so hard that you got yourself confused somewhere in the middle.

[₵ⱤɄ₵ł₣łł]

wow just looking at the 7dtd forums and i find REALLY old comments about bandits, water, and VR very "specific comments" from years ago,, years,,,, yea,, whatever.

[RasaNova]

!C4ught/M3^withMYN4D30ut eredeti hozzászólása:

wow just looking at the 7dtd forums and i find REALLY old comments about bandits, water, and VR very "specific comments" from years ago,, years,,,, yea,, whatever:csgoanarchist:.

Wow, you're really reaching now. Are you seriously implying that having set goals, roadmaps, or planned features for an EA game are violating Steam's EA terms? So, I guess literally every early access game is violating the rules.

[Shurenai]

!C4ught/M3^withMYN4D30ut eredeti hozzászólása:

wow just looking at the 7dtd forums and i find REALLY old comments about bandits, water, and VR very "specific comments" from years ago,, years,,,, yea,, whatever:csgoanarchist:.

It's interesting that you'll go and 'find' these really old comments from years ago about these very specific topics and insist they're there and that they perfectly match what you're saying they do..

But then you didn't bother to share with the class all this evidence you found to prove your stance? Not even a single link per topic (Bandits/water/VR)?

Citations needed.

[RasaNova]

Shurenai eredeti hozzászólása:

!C4ught/M3^withMYN4D30ut eredeti hozzászólása:

wow just looking at the 7dtd forums and i find REALLY old comments about bandits, water, and VR very "specific comments" from years ago,, years,,,, yea,, whatever:csgoanarchist:.

It's interesting that you'll go and 'find' these really old comments from years ago about these very specific topics and insist they're there and that they perfectly match what you're saying they do..

But then you didn't bother to share with the class all this evidence you found to prove your stance? Not even a single link per topic (Bandits/water/VR)?

Citations needed.

No don't ask for that, we'll just be presented with their kickstarter goals, random dev diaries, and posts going over planned features and what they're working on.

[₵ⱤɄ₵ł₣łł]

the 7dtd forums are very interesting especially goal lists,.