Save system is badly needed

[TheJebblue]

I was discussing the save system in another game and remembered one major pain point for 7DTD is the player has zero control over saves. Get a phone call or emergency? Better remember to exit the game immediately.

It can be done via the console apparently: https://www.setreadygame.com/games/guides/how-to-save-the-game-in-7-days-to-die/

[Shurenai]

During play the game is basically always saving incremental progress. Logging out commits any pending changes to the files in one lump action. Using the console command also commits any pending changes to the files in one lump action; But that's all it does, it doesn't make a backup copy or separate copy of the save or anything like that.. It's basically the equivalent of exiting the game, but without exiting the game, and really doesn't accomplish anything of note.

This isn't like most other games that have a 20kb save that you can save any time and have a thousand backup copies without even noticing. A brand new untouched save in 7DTD starts at around 50mb, and only grows from there as you play and explore- 7 hours in it'll be closer to 200mb

Because of that file size, making backups is an iffy prospect- That's a lot of space to many people, but it rapidly balloons when you're making constant backups and not really paying any attention or are expecting based on prior games played that the saves are of inconsequential size- Further, the saves are stored on the C drive which many people tend to try and use only for their OS.

That size also is a hindrance to the way the game can be saved. If, for example, the game didn't constantly commit changes to file as you played and only updated it every 15 minutes for example, that's a 200+mb change every 15 minutes- In order to save in one lump sum this way the game has to literally stop what you're doing, settle all the files into place, save it all, and then return control to you, because you can't be making changes while it's saving if it's saving the entire thing at once. (Much like using the console command, tbh- You have to stop, open the console and input the command, and are unable to effect change on the world during that period).

Most people heavily disapprove of such intrusive game-freezing during a save process. But that's how it has to be- If you're committing a change to a file the game is saving as it's saving it, then you cause corruption; Much akin to suddenly shutting the computer/console off mid-save for any saving process- You interrupted the save mid-process and now the file is corrupted. When the save file is 20kb, that freeze is so miniscule you don't even notice it. When it's 200mb, though? It's very noticable.

[TheJebblue]

Really detailed response ^ but also has a lot of drama towards the end. Not asking for a perfect save system, a save system with a pause would be fine for me and I'm betting around 70-80% of the player base would be fine with it as they are in other big games. Those that aren't fine with it simply can choose to not use it.

[NoMan]

This mod works well. On default settings it makes a back-up every 20 minutes, but it's configurable. Not the perfect save system perhaps, but at least will limit your losses.

https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/28451-backup-mod/

[SylenThunder]

Just be sure you have enough drive space to support it. This isn't like most of your games where a save is usually less than 100MB. Saves can take up a few GB of drive space.

[TheJebblue]

Originally posted by NoMan:

This mod works well. On default settings it makes a back-up every 20 minutes, but it's configurable. Not the perfect save system perhaps, but at least will limit your losses.

https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/28451-backup-mod/

I don't do mods but I appreciate the suggestion. I'd say it's less about limiting losses for me, anything loss can be gained back in 7DTD. It's more about things like character development. Sometimes I think it'd be nice to go back and change direction on points allocation to see how things would work out. I may start trying the console save more.

[ElDudorino]

I don't get it, what is the problem and what are you looking for? Is something wrong with the way 7DtD saves? I've never noticed anything weird.

Yeah you can't backtrack or save scum but that's normal for this kind of game.

[TheJebblue]

Originally posted by ElDudorino:

I don't get it, what is the problem and what are you looking for? Is something wrong with the way 7DtD saves? I've never noticed anything weird.

Yeah you can't backtrack or save scum but that's normal for this kind of game.

I think I articulated it better in my response to NoMan.

[BGratz]

Just copy the savegamefolder
Should be not that big problem to leave the game (to make sure everything is saved)
and click on the Desktop link to the 7D2D folder in app data and then a few clicks to copy that folder

[Ragequit Inc.]

I'm *relatively* sure that these days you don't even have to exit the game for it to save (in SP), it's enough to just hit Esc and it saves at that point. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here though.

[SylenThunder]

Originally posted by Ragequit Inc.:

I'm *relatively* sure that these days you don't even have to exit the game for it to save (in SP), it's enough to just hit Esc and it saves at that point. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here though.

The issue most people face is that the game is constantly reading and writing the save data. It's not just one file either, but a number of them for different things.

If your client crashes unexpectedly, or you are a wanker that just hits alt+F4 to escape a dodgy situation, any file being accessed at that time can be corrupted.
It does occasionally make backups of some of the files. However, when you start it after crashing the save, the backup file is over-written.

[Reeva!]

There is the " saveworld sa " command that immediately saves your game, useful for when you just did something and have to quit right after, since incremental saves sometimes cause you to lose some progress if you quit too fast.

The idea of a save system would be... meh? Best way I can describe it I suppose.
A system like that would eliminate a lot of risk-reward scenarios, since if you did something wrong you could just load and not do that again, or even try it again until it works. There'd be no sense of "This could get me killed... But..." cause you just have a button that unscrews you.
I don't think the game needs a system like that. Dedicated servers only lose a little bit of progress if the server spontaneously shuts down without manually saving progress with the console command, and hosts of games can use the command as well to avoid your last actions before exiting being lost.
A save system would hurt this game more than it would add to it, I feel.

Just one example I could use is:
If you got stunned by something and it lead to your death or the proccing of literally every negative status effect in the game, you could just load the game to before the hit, get hit the same way by the same enemy, and this time he doesn't stun you or debilitate you at all.
Some of the RNG gets obliterated with a save system, there's a reason you don't wanna get hit by zombies or animals, and it's not just because of HP.

[TheJebblue]

It's my single player game, I should be able to direct its outcome. It's not your SP game, not the TFP's game, my game.

[Teresa]

And by that logic, the game code belongs to tfp, so they can code it however they want.

To direct your own game save outcomes, there are mods you can download. To prevent your save from getting corrupted due to a power outage (which is the reason most people want more save game options) you can get a ups.

[ElDudorino]

Originally posted by jebblue:

It's my single player game, I should be able to direct its outcome. It's not your SP game, not the TFP's game, my game.

"Single player" kinda needs an asterisk here. Sure, you and I play by ourselves, but as far as the game's concerned we're playing multiplayer and just happen to be the only ones on the server. TFP don't see this as a single player game. Maybe that's the same logic used by similar games like Minecraft, ARK or Conan Exiles which, to my knowledge, also have no system for bouncing between save files within a single playthrough.

But also the thing where these saved games are not small affairs and not easily managed.

Anyway, I don't get the impression a lot of people are looking for this feature. So this is obvious mod territory.

[kelsobluebane]

Originally posted by jebblue:

It's my single player game, I should be able to direct its outcome. It's not your SP game, not the TFP's game, my game.

You'll probably find in the terms and conditions it's not actually your game. But that aside it's usually good practice with any early access game (or any game that doesn't actively save during play) to make a backup of your game saves every now and then. It's a good habit to get into, personally I create a backup after each horde night. it's best to delete the previous backup after you make a new one as it can take up a fair amount of disk space if you have loads.