Concrete XP Seems High

[Kauldric]

Playing with a friend and have noticed that when I build concrete structures, I level up much faster than they do. They have the miner role and by gamestage 100, I'm like 5-8 levels higher than them.

[Tux]

i have been spending many hours trying to explain this to people online.
they did it for good reasons, builders and crafters really need about a billion Perk points to be effective so they tried to help them with that.

[Kauldric]

Yeah I get the intent. I’m unsure if the current implementation is balanced.

Also the solution is to simply distribute the XP to everyone else in the party, right? Everyone benefits from a base.

[Kraxin-Kari]

or ya can have them all help upgrade the blocks, thats what i did with my friends i play with, the solution doesnt need devs

[Kauldric]

Originally posted by Kraxin:

or ya can have them all help upgrade the blocks, thats what i did with my friends i play with, the solution doesnt need devs

Well the problem is that they have mining skills and I don’t. So if they help to build the base then they aren’t mining.

[RasaNova]

It's a work in progress. Many believed for a long time that builders were not getting any XP love, so TFP is trying to help them out. Is it too much? Maybe... I would not be at all surprised if the XP awards are adjusted in A19. (And you can bet that people will be mad...)

[Sinbad]

I think the building exp is on par with cement, It takes a lot of stone to make cement and crushed sand, and when you are mining stone you are losing out on experience that you could get from mining ores. Plus you still need to mine iron for the frames.

[Kauldric]

Originally posted by Sinbad:

I think the building exp is on par with cement, It takes a lot of stone to make cement and crushed sand, and when you are mining stone you are losing out on experience that you could get from mining ores. Plus you still need to mine iron for the frames.

Didn’t quite get your point. Person 1 is mining. Person 2 is at the base making cement + expanding/reinforcing the base. Person 2 levels faster than person 1.

[Sinbad]

Originally posted by Kauldric:

Originally posted by Sinbad:

I think the building exp is on par with cement, It takes a lot of stone to make cement and crushed sand, and when you are mining stone you are losing out on experience that you could get from mining ores. Plus you still need to mine iron for the frames.

Didn’t quite get your point. Person 1 is mining. Person 2 is at the base making cement + expanding/reinforcing the base. Person 2 levels faster than person 1.

I am assuming #1 is mining stone for #2. If #2 had to spend half the day getting their own stone, making cement & concrete they would be around the same levels. If #1 were to mine nothing but ores instead of worrying about feeding #2 with stones, they would be the same level as Im sure you know mining ore nets about 2x as much exp than mining stone.

[Tux]

there is zero question that if you upgrade blocks you will get a higher XP then doing anything else in the same time frame.

you can kill zombies while making cobblestone, you can kill zombies while making cement AND when you mine for materials you also get XP.

for people saying how much they know how the gamestag works it appears they do not, or more likely, they are not even building so they have no idea

[Kauldric]

Originally posted by Sinbad:

Originally posted by Kauldric:

Didn’t quite get your point. Person 1 is mining. Person 2 is at the base making cement + expanding/reinforcing the base. Person 2 levels faster than person 1.

I am assuming #1 is mining stone for #2. If #2 had to spend half the day getting their own stone, making cement & concrete they would be around the same levels. If #1 were to mine nothing but ores instead of worrying about feeding #2 with stones, they would be the same level as Im sure you know mining ore nets about 2x as much exp than mining stone.

Ok but person 2 doesn’t have miner 69er or mother load as they have INT instead of STR...

[CellNav]

Originally posted by Kauldric:

Ok but person 2 doesn’t have miner 69er or mother load as they have INT instead of STR...

That could be your problem. When looking at the equation of XP over a given time, you can see that upgrading blocks (with a nail gun) is a one shot action, while your miners can't one shot blocks and teleport back to base with the material ... :(

Even if the given XP was equal per block, your miners have lost the time traveling back and forth not to mention the time to rest (regain stamina without an auger) and other factors. You can see that upgrading blocks is a runaway train because you get slightly more XP per action the higher your level.

I dare suggest that you save some blocks for your friends to upgrade? You can upgrade the hidden blocks but leave the rest for your friends to "bam-bam" with a hammer.

[Vang]

Another thing to look at is that builders generally have lower quality gear because they're not going out clearing POIs and looting gear or even the materials to make better gear. I've heard of games where a player was still using a stone axe to upgrade blocks while the other players were selling nailguns they came across. Even if the looters bring back gear they generally keep the best stuff.

This is where the extra XP tends to offset this imbalance. If you spend more time building you get the XP needed to craft better tools yourself. It might even convince the Hunter/Looters to help so they can get the extra XP.

All that said, I could see the building XP lowered somewhat. The problem is if it is lowered too much it will discourage players from engaging in epic building projects. In my Navezgane game, I started cutting a tunnel through a mountain by the area with the Cabinet Shop, Bakery, Pawnshop and Bear Den. Pretty soon the rest of my crew were helping and now it's wide enough for two 4x4s to drive through with a bridge across the river on the North side of the Mountain. There's even talk of running a shaft to the top of the mountain so we can setup a solar bank hooked to a battery bank powering tunnel lights. All done without resorting to Creative Mode just to prove that we can do it. Long Story Short, nerfing building XP too much will make players less willing to try such epic projects.

[Tux]

Originally posted by Vang:

Another thing to look at is that builders generally have lower quality gear because they're not going out clearing POIs and looting gear or even the materials to make better gear. I've heard of games where a player was still using a stone axe to upgrade blocks while the other players were selling nailguns they came across. Even if the looters bring back gear they generally keep the best stuff.

This is where the extra XP tends to offset this imbalance. If you spend more time building you get the XP needed to craft better tools yourself. It might even convince the Hunter/Looters to help so they can get the extra XP.

All that said, I could see the building XP lowered somewhat. The problem is if it is lowered too much it will discourage players from engaging in epic building projects. In my Navezgane game, I started cutting a tunnel through a mountain by the area with the Cabinet Shop, Bakery, Pawnshop and Bear Den. Pretty soon the rest of my crew were helping and now it's wide enough for two 4x4s to drive through with a bridge across the river on the North side of the Mountain. There's even talk of running a shaft to the top of the mountain so we can setup a solar bank hooked to a battery bank powering tunnel lights. All done without resorting to Creative Mode just to prove that we can do it. Long Story Short, nerfing building XP too much will make players less willing to try such epic projects.

it doesnt offset it though, i have tested it. in the end the fastest way to get XP is by upgrading blocks. full stop no wiggling out of it and its a simple thing that they will likely adjust.

I find it very ironic in this game that people are actually saying 'the builders' as if the game is not a building focused game.

if the XP stays as it is I can assure you that a common phrase will be'lets upgrade some blocks to get xp' if its not already a common phrase

[Tux]

what is not intutive about this upgrading blocks for quick XP thing is that more XP also means your gamestage is higher, which means POIs, Hordes and roaming hordes will be harder.

so keep that in mind, because if you have the gear now that has been prooven effective and then spend 15 mins upgrading blocks everything in your game world could change.

you do not want to XP to quickly unless you have gear and defenses ready for the next tier, not your current tier

[Sinbad]

Is it not obvious that the player who has someone get the concrete materials for them would have the higher level? If they had to spend half the time getting their own stone their levels would be the same. Hitting blocks slightly harder or getting a little more ore doesn't play into the equation. One is clearly supporting the other to level..

The experience gained from building concrete blocks factors in you spending your own time gathering resources - you couldn't possibly just build all day...Unless of course you are playing multiplayer with "roles" which the game is not designed for its common sense. Raising your GS with concrete is balanced. The game is saying "ok, he at least now has a fortified base able to handle demo's".

The same could be said with literally another other aspect of the game. My buddy gets bullets for me so I can pray and spray. Clearly the guy "getting" the materials is going to be a lower level than the guy reaping the rewards..