Microsoft Buying 7D2D?

[SprigusK]

So just curious if anyone knows? Is Microsoft buying 7D2D? Last time a game i played have "changes because of Microsoft" and a random "Remember the Eula Popup" it was then sold to Microsoft. Not to mention with 7D2D being added to Xbox Pass... Idk about you guys but to me. 1+1+1 = 3. XD

[VideogameAddiction]

Publicado originalmente por pApA^LeGBa:

Nope, it´s to meet the rules of MS for beeing in the gamepass.

Publicado originalmente por Roland:

EAC is already being administered through Epic as of Alpha 20. EOS is how the game will be handling cross platform play. The developers are getting all the "infrastructure" ready for when the new console versions eventually come out.

I'm sure many of you are experiencing some of the growing pains of this process with EOS/EAC causing errors and performance dips as well as the changes to how servers are organized. They want all of these issues ironed out and working smoothly long before the new console versions are released and full cross platform play starts.

No version of the game before Alpha 20 used EOS to run EAC and it would take a lot of effort to go back and make those compatible which is just not worth the effort when they are dead development versions and no longer supported. The easiest solution was to simply cut EAC from all of those old versions so that nobody would get the errors.

This post from Jost's pinned thread, mentions how servers are organized and that it is cause of EOS. What else would organizing servers mean if not the server browser?

[pApA^LeGBa]

Well i was under the impression that it is due to MS. Propably still is, to be able to have crossplay between steam and people with the MS version of the game. Otherwise it wouldn´t be needed for quite some time as the console versions aren´t coming for at least one year or two at least (Depending when the PC version is finished. Unless that changed again meanwhile)

Makes it even worse tbh, they did plan crossplay for quite a long time now, at least long enough to be prepared properly and not just slap on a server browser that lacks basic functionality.

And as said, i doubt that they didn´t know they are going to be added to the MS Gamestore in time to do it properly. There is a lot of money involved, such decisions aren´t made hastily. I mean maybe it´s MS fault because they forgot to tell them in time. We don´t know, they never talk about such things even when it caused a lot of confusion and rage we can simply only guess what happened. But not saying anything will lead most people to the conclusion that they messed that up themselves.

[VideogameAddiction]

Publicado originalmente por pApA^LeGBa:

Well i was under the impression that it is due to MS. Propably still is, to be able to have crossplay between steam and people with the MS version of the game.

And as said, i doubt that they didn´t know they are going to be added to the MS Gamestore in time to do it properly. There is a lot of money involved, such decisions aren´t made hastily. I mean maybe it´s MS fault because they forgot to tell them in time. We don´t know, they never talk about such things even when it caused a lot of confusion and rage we can simply only guess what happened. But not saying anything will lead most people to the conclusion that they messed that up themselves.

Idk, I only remember that one of the recent patch notes mentioned having to change some file locations cause of MS. Don't recall hearing MS having anything to do with the server browser. Who knows though, maybe I just never heard it if that is the case.

[pApA^LeGBa]

Well, It´s not MS demanding here in this case then, it´s needed so you can have crossplay between MS and Steam. Would be the same if they would get it on the Ubisoft shop or Origin for example. There needs to be a system in place that allows crossplay and the serverbrowser is part of that apparently.

[meganoth]

Publicado originalmente por pApA^LeGBa:

According to a post from sylen thunder on page one this was long planned. You guys should somehow coordinate what you are saying when defending TFP. Yeah i know you don´t work for them but still, such opposed arguments from the mod team do fall back on TFP aswell in the opinions of people.

What "you guys"? I'm not a mod, not here. And I definitely are not a spokesperson of TFP, nowhere. If you can't differentiate between Sylen and me it is your own fault.

And what exactly did Sylen say? That **crossplay** was planned for a long time. It doesn't say anything about the browser itself being in development for a long time.

I can´t believe that let´s say one more week to implement it properly would matter that much and i honestly don´t think that MS said, hey we gonna add you in game pass tomorrow, fix your browser to our standards, you have just a few days to do so. I don´t believe that at all.

I somehow first thought 7D2D was included at some special event like the initial launch of game pass, but checking now game pass was already launched in 2017. Anyway, I don't know why it was a matter of time, but I think TFP said specifically that there was a time limit involved. Usually that means a contract where a date is fixed in.

Now I don't know anything about their contracts with Microsoft, I don't know more than you. If I believe that tidbit by TFP then I can think of at least one turn of events how that could happen (note that this is just pure conjecture to fit the events with what we were told and assuming we were not lied to):

1) TFP made a deal with Microsoft say in October21 to add the game to gamepass on April 26 2022. Failing that date would at a minimum be a negative publicity thing making them look unprofessional

2) A programmer plus later the newly hired network guy get the task to make crossplay possible. This may or may not include changes in the browser as well.

3) Steam contacts them in January about their browser presenting too much of a load to their servers and they give TFP untii June to fix that. Or maybe TFP themselves notice in tests of the new code that the current solution doesn't scale well and would make the xbox launch a fiasko.
So, quite late in development, they decide the browser needs a complete rewrite and they can't have 7D2D start on xbox with the old browser or at least it doesn't make sense and would cost them development time for changing the browser twice. But the date of the launch is still fixed.

4) Suddenly their timeline is borked, they have just time for an initial minimal browser.

As I said, this is just one possible turn of events explaining the initial state of the browser. We don't know what gets talked between those companies and we never will. We don't know the contracts and often there are penalties in them for failing dates.

Are you trying to find ean excuse by saying TFP doesn´t use the browser at all btw? That makes things even worse, they don´t even know what they are implementing basically? Wow. Just because they don´t use it when playing is an excuse to implement things not properly? Jeeez. That´s sad.

Again just a theory why TFP internally may have some blind spots. Just like they have a blind spot concerncing open servers with mostly more than 8 players. Why have EA experimentals at all if you have perfect test coverage?

I try to find explanations for what we see. Whether you and I consider them better or worse than them missing a time line from months away is subjective.

@Seftak Basically you are right. But in case of a server browser, it´s crystal clear what it should do. There is no experimenting needed. Feedback yes. But knowing that it should have basic functions working should be clear to every developer.

Strange that critics always are so adamant about the failings being inexusable. It seems perfect people always become critics, never programmers ;-)

At least concerning the filters pertaining to the favourite list we now know at least ONE programmer and surely at least one tester who did not have a crystal clear picture of what it should do. I can easily imagine them only testing servers in their area and not even imagining that many people would use servers in far away countries with long roundtrip delays.
If you hadn't told me I would not have noticed this case being in any way common or important. I still don't know as you are the only one I remember with that particular beef.

[pApA^LeGBa]

East and West in the US aren´t far away countries and it´s split in the region filter or at least was when they first launched the new server browser. That´s a ton of people sitting in between in the same country. So nope, they didn´t just not think about people connecting to other countries. And are you really trying to tell me it´s uncommon that people play with others around the world online? Really? Come on. If that is news to TFP they are years behind in what is going on in the gaming world....

And yes, in this case it should be crystal clear that those functions mentioned work properly.

I can deal with a lot during early access, i have no problems waiting another 5 years for the game beeing finished. I don´t mind reworking existing mechanics, i might not like the new ones but that´s a different story.

They gotta be super unlucky that they really had to implement this right away and couldn´t add another week or two. I highly doubt that. And if so they should have said so and not just simply be silent and let the rage flow. If they were that unlucky and didn´t be clear about that, they need someone for PR.

[meganoth]

Publicado originalmente por pApA^LeGBa:

East and West in the US aren´t far away countries and it´s split in the region filter or at least was when they first launched the new server browser. That´s a ton of people sitting in between in the same country. So nope, they didn´t just not think about people connecting to other countries. And are you really trying to tell me it´s uncommon that people play with others around the world online? Really? Come on. If that is news to TFP they are years behind in what is going on in the gaming world....

Didn't think of East and West US. Is the new network programmer from the US, would he think of that?

Around the world for a game where packet roundtrip time is essential? That is a strong deterent. But you are right if you think I am rather ignorant about that topic.

I at least have seen how MMORPGs like World of Warcraft actively prevented crossplay with other countries. If I recollect correctly I could not select any servers outside of my continent. Maybe that would have been the sensible thing for 7D2D too, add regions from the start and have no scaling problems and no problems of people getting the impression of losing something.

And yes, in this case it should be crystal clear that those functions mentioned work properly.

I can deal with a lot during early access, i have no problems waiting another 5 years for the game beeing finished. I don´t mind reworking existing mechanics, i might not like the new ones but that´s a different story.

They gotta be super unlucky that they really had to implement this right away and couldn´t add another week or two. I highly doubt that. And if so they should have said so and not just simply be silent and let the rage flow.

I already said their information policy was bad. But another week or two in terms of developing and testing features is nothing. Another 2 weeks would not have made a full featured browser out of that minimal browser that was published.

And as I also said public events and contracts work with specific dates. How much damage a delay would have been I can't judge from outside. For Cypherpunk2077 for example that last delay of just 21 days before release was a a major publicity fail and even distributors were complaining openly, but that is a different case.

[pApA^LeGBa]

Oh come on, now you are getting desperate trying to making exactly the one guy responsible not beeing from the US. It´s not uncommon that people around the world play together. That´s 101 of knowing your audience in any MP game.

[meganoth]

Publicado originalmente por pApA^LeGBa:

Oh come on, now you are getting desperate trying to making exactly the one guy responsible not beeing from the US. It´s not uncommon that people around the world play together. That´s 101 of knowing your audience in any MP game.

I don't. I'm looking for explanations. Fact is the programmer or programmers did have filters working for favourites.
Either they thought of it but didn't have enough time (which would be a little strange, why add it at all?) or they didn't think of it. If the latter what could be the reason?

[pApA^LeGBa]

It´s either their own fault and they simply didn´t do it properly or they simply didn´t care about how this will effect players and serverowners (it did cost some people a lot of time figuring out what is going wrong). Wich is really bad.

Or they got screwed over from external sources and keep beeing silent about it. And didn´t even give out a warning beforehand that the servers are going to be messed up pretty bad with that update, like a day in advance. Wich is less bad, but still bad. And shows that the lack of communication needs to be worked on. At least if you are about to make peoples gaming experience more complictated.

To make it clear why people wasted time am small example: I wasn´t expecting that the new serversearch and TFP are the reason that i can´t find the server. I was looking for the problem on my side or the server hosting company. Not one second was i thinking that TFP was the problem, because they messed up the region settings and i had to deal with changing config files to get the region showing up correctly. Pretty sure a lot of people working at the customer support from server companies did curse TFP a lot during that time.

Both options don´t really make them look good.

No matter what the reasons are, it was poorly executed.

[meganoth]

Publicado originalmente por pApA^LeGBa:

It´s either their own fault and they simply didn´t do it properly or they simply didn´t care about how this will effect players and serverowners (it did cost some people a lot of time figuring out what is going wrong). Wich is really bad.

Or they got screwed over from external sources and keep beeing silent about it. And didn´t even give out a warning beforehand that the servers are going to be messed up pretty bad with that update, like a day in advance. Wich is less bad, but still bad. And shows that the lack of communication needs to be worked on. At least if you are about to make peoples gaming experience more complictated.

To make it clear why people wasted time: I wasn´t expecting that the new serversearch and TFP are the reason that i can´t find the server. I was looking for the problem on my side or the server hosting company. Not one second was i thinking that TFP was the problem, because they messed up the region settings and i had to deal with changing config files to get the region showing up correctly.

Both options don´t really make them look good.

No matter what the reasons are, it was poorly executed.

Messed up the region settings? In what way? Isn't it the server operator who has to set the region?

[pApA^LeGBa]

If i set the server to europe, people couldn´t find it when searching for servers in europe. It was listed under north america east (or west, not sure right now) by default, even though i did set the region to europe in the settings at G-Portal.

You had to add a line in the serverconfig.xml with the right region so that people could actually find your server located in europe when searching for servers in europe. If that line wasn´t added it could only be found when setting the search to NA.

[meganoth]

Publicado originalmente por pApA^LeGBa:

If i set the server to europe, people couldn´t find it when searching for servers in europe. It was listed under north america east (or west, not sure right now) by default, even though i did set the region to europe in the settings at G-Portal.

G-Portal seems to be a game server provider. Are there special settings pages there or are you talking about serverconfig.xml ?

So are you saying that putting "Europe" into **serverconfig.xml** would make you get listed in North america east? Or was that only happening with G-Portal?

You had to add a line in the serverconfig.xml with the right region so that people could actually find your server located in europe when searching for servers in europe. If that line wasn´t added it could only be found when setting the search to NA.

[pApA^LeGBa]

No, if you rent a server you have all your settings. Like servername, difficulty, password and also region. Usually you just choose your region there and it shows up correctly in the game.

When the new serverbrowser was introduced first that didn´t work anymore, no matter what region you choose, ingame you could only be found when using the NA region in the search mask. You had to add a line in the config file to have the server show up in the correct region.

Wasn´t only at G-portal, all server owners had to deal with that problem.

[meganoth]

Publicado originalmente por pApA^LeGBa:

No, if you rent a server you have all your settings. Like servername, difficulty, password and also region. Usually you just choose your region there and it shows up correctly in the game.

"...have all your settings". In a webpage, right?

Region as a setting was new in 20.4. Are you saying there was a region setting before 20.4 in G-Portal? And are you sure it wasn't just adding the region to the server description text?

If I had turned my unmanaged server public I would have had no way to specify a region. The only way I can think of for a region to be listed would be that the browser server at steam sets region automatically by IP.

When the new serverbrowser was introduced first that didn´t work anymore, no matter what region you choose, ingame you could only be found when using the NA region in the search mask. You had to add a line in the config file to have the server show up in the correct region.

Wasn´t only at G-portal, all server owners had to deal with that problem.

Makes sense for managed servers. If you don't have access to serverconfig.xml and only edit through a webservice then that webservice has to be adjusted to make the correct settings in serverconfig.xml.