What's the point of making Concrete Block if I can directly make Steel Blocks?

[que]

Both in my previous save and in this one I don't see the point of creating Concrete Blocks. In other words, to make Concrete Mix I need to farm a lot of stone to turn part of it into sand, melt part of it in the forge to create cement and then another part to create the Concrete Mix. To make steel blocks I just have to farm a lot of iron, some clay and have a Crucible, which is very easy to get from Traders even before the second horde.

To create both the Concrete Block and the Steel Block I need to farm a lot of something, but in the end I can directly farm Iron instead of Stone, because they are both equally easy to mine.

Why did they make this change? I mean, why now can I create the last Tier of blocks skipping other Tiers?

[☆TheDough]

I'm thinking the only benefit to going through the trouble of crafting each tier of block is to gain the EXP. Otherwise, skip to the final tier and miss out on the EXP. I can't see any other benefit to going through each tier.

[SuperMeatBag]

Crucible access is very dependent on RNG -- if you haven't found one then concrete is the saviour. If it didn't exist then the whining from players would be deafening. More deafening than usual, I should say.

[Ragequit Inc.]

Or if someone just wants to build with concrete instead of steel..

[mathaniel]

Yes, what *TheDough said I think.EXP, lots and lots of exp. gained by building and upgrading, just sayin. Because one can make concrete blocks or upgrade to them before steel, both ways. Also you get some some from mining ores. Plenty of cement in the bags of cement lying every where, in numerous POI, and cobblestone that scraps down to rock, if you want it in the blue bags, just like in RL big box construction stores. So there are easy ways for rocks and cement. Sand lying around in piles, Passing Gas, construction, desert biomes, etc. IMO, a cement mixer is easier to get than a crucible. I`m not sure how you are getting a crucible berfore second horde. Not saying you aren`t but that seems very lucky, on two saves.

[ElDudorino]

Yeah, I'm always swimming in cement so it's much easier to make a concrete base than a steel base earlyish. But if you have the steel then yeah skip over other building materials.

[Uncle Al]

A steel block takes 200 iron and 100 clay to craft, whereas a concrete block takes 120 stone, when you consider base material cost and ignore the intermediate stages.

That's already quite a significant saving on gathering time, especially as clay is a bit of a pain to gather as a soil block only produces something like 35 clay when destroyed. How ever good your tools and skills get you're only getting 35 clay per swing (+whatever you get from motherlode).

Add in that you can find cement absolutely everywhere. If you're looting your cement then each concrete block takes 10 cement + 20 stone to craft, which is insanely easy to come by compared to the steel block requirements.

Look at it this way, a steel block requires something like six tool swings to gather the materials, a concrete block takes two.

There's also the fact that you pick up not inconsiderable quantities of stone and sand as a byproduct of mining iron.

Steel blocks also take an ungodly amount of time to craft in the workbench.

Steel is only really needed for areas that are going to eat demolisher blasts and for 'absolutely must not fail' structural beams. Concrete is plenty strong enough for most applications.

Sure if you've got steel blocks coming out of your ears (500 steel block trader reward, anyone?) then they're a great construction material, but for extensive construction projects it's a lot quicker to do the work mostly in concrete.

[Khissi]

I build my own bases. When in the first few days of a game, however, the resources you have access to are wood, stone, and clay. The xp gained from building your own base and upgrading it to cobble is exceptional in those early days.

Your argument seems to ignore the fact that it should take you many days of gameplay to reach the point where you'd have enough resources to make steel blocks so, yeah... most players will build by going through wood/cobble/cement/steel and each layer gives great xp.

If you choose to cheat in a bunch of steel blocks and play that way, more power to you. Everyone plays the way they wish and that's cool.

Edit: I will also add that, once I'm well established and have good production, I will often create concrete blocks to carry into areas where I wish to build forward bases. This makes base building very fast and easy. Upgrading to steel or even making steel blocks will do the same thing, though, I have a tendency for misplacing blocks and, breaking out a badly placed steel block is much more annoying than breaking one of cement, or of wood or cobble. Just saying.

[Midas]

Автор сообщения: ∪ω∪

To make steel blocks I just have to farm a lot of iron, some clay and have a Crucible, which is very easy to get from Traders even before the second horde.

Maybe you've just been remarkably lucky, but the crucible is by far one of the absolute rarest items in the entire game to find. It's sometimes faster to max out int and learn to craft it, then respec, then to actually wait for it to drop.

That said, if you DO have a crucible, then I agree, there's no longer any need for concrete unless you are low on steel. But USUALLY you can't count on having a crucible within your first 20 days, and concrete is the next best thing until then.

[darknessanubis]

If you play with hostiles off upgrading through all the stages is one of the prime methods of xp gain. Which is one of the reason I am forcing myself to play with hostiles on. I only have 3 achievements left. 2 for deaths and one for reaching gamestage 200, Playing with hostiles on seems to be the only expedient way to get all 3 :P

[Hogman]

Автор сообщения: Uncle Al

There's also the fact that you pick up not inconsiderable quantities of stone and sand as a byproduct of mining iron.

Exactly. Also, you have to go looking for iron to mine, whereas stone is acquired "naturally" if any part of your base is underground.

Автор сообщения: Midas

Maybe you've just been remarkably lucky, but the crucible is by far one of the absolute rarest items in the entire game to find.

Exactly. The idea of having it by the second horde night seems fanciful to me.

[JimmyIowa]

I use concrete because a) I usually have lots of stone lying around anyway from other activities and b) it's good enough for my purposes.

By good enough, I mean I fight the blood moon directly, with the zombies having a short, clear, untrapped, unobstructed path directly to me. With this setup, they don't attack the actual concrete "funnel" structure much. At that point it doesn't matter too much if the blocks have 5000 or 50,000 health. In a pinch when playing random horde nights with no warning, I have fought late gamestage Survivalist 100% block damage horde nights with cobblestone as my primary building material.

I admit I should think about using steel a little more often late game though, after I have mining skills and a steel pick and no other real use for iron besides repair kits. Now if only there was a cool non-ammunition use for brass, so I could stop throwing away chests full of radiators and doorknobs.

[que]

Автор сообщения: Ragequit Inc.

Or if someone just wants to build with concrete instead of steel..

If you could do either, why would you prefer concrete? If you like the color, you can always paint the steel block to look like concrete.

Автор сообщения: Khissi

I build my own bases. When in the first few days of a game, however, the resources you have access to are wood, stone, and clay. The xp gained from building your own base and upgrading it to cobble is exceptional in those early days.

You gain more experience, good point, but you're going to spend a lot more time farming. If you don't mind spending hours and hours and hours farming, it's ok as you get much more experience, but in my case, I don't see what fun it's to hit the same blocks over and over again for hours, so if I can reduce that farming process, the better.

Автор сообщения: Khissi

Your argument seems to ignore the fact that it should take you many days of gameplay to reach the point where you'd have enough resources to make steel blocks so, yeah...

Uh, no, my argument doesn't ignore that. By the time I can make large amounts of Concrete to build my base, I'm going to have a Crucible (obtained from the Trader, I usually get one or two within the first 12-16 days). If I'm going to farm a material, instead of farming stone I farm iron. I lose exp, but I save a huge amount of time.

Автор сообщения: Khissi

most players will build by going through wood/cobble/cement/steel and each layer gives great xp.

By "most players" do you mean yourself and a few others? Or are there statistics somewhere? I'm not trying to be aggressive, just curious if I'm the weird one or just doing something normal.
Going Tier by Tier in the blocks used to make sense, but since Alpha 20 allows you to create blocks of the Tier you want, I don't see the point anymore (unless you want to gain more EXP at the cost of wasting a lot more time) .

Автор сообщения: Midas

Maybe you've just been remarkably lucky, but the crucible is by far one of the absolute rarest items in the entire game to find. It's sometimes faster to max out int and learn to craft it, then respec, then to actually wait for it to drop.

Curious. In none of my games have I taken long to get the Crucible. Just every time Traders restock, I go to everyone I know, even if I spend a whole day just visiting Traders.

Автор сообщения: darknessanubis

If you play with hostiles off upgrading through all the stages is one of the prime methods of xp gain. Which is one of the reason I am forcing myself to play with hostiles on. I only have 3 achievements left. 2 for deaths and one for reaching gamestage 200, Playing with hostiles on seems to be the only expedient way to get all 3 :P

Wait, by hostiles off you mean zombies off? Why would you play a zombie apocalypse game without zombies around the world? I'm not trying to be aggressive, each person plays their way, your comment just surprised me.

[william_es]

Yeah, depending on your stat/perk build, some resources may be easier to get then others. In past builds it was often cheaper to build out of lower tier materials like concrete, and then upgrade those blocks later.

Upgrading also allowed you to evolve your base builds over time, as you get access to higher tier materials (or get easier time farming them).

[Mithrandir]

For my usual builds, steel requires a lot of time mining metal, except if your build include the % reduction to make steel and mining perks.

Second, I never had a crucible in any of my games before 2nd horde night. I play solo with xp at normal. Crucible is nowhere before end of midgame in my runs. Maybe you spec into the trader perk to boost the secret trader stash ? Or maybe you play with xp boost ?

So, for the first 50 days or so, I need to build defences and those are usually made of cobblestones then cement as both are easy and fast to get compared to steel.

When I get the crucible, I'll usually have all my defences already built with cement, so I upgrade cement to steel where it's needed.

At normal xp pace and playing solo, my experience is that you need to use cobblestone and cement way before you get steel. If I wanted to wait for steel, I would have to play nomad style and wait many hordes before building a permanent base.

[Gargoyle Girl]

I'm going to say you've been very lucky in your playthrough. In my first playthrough of the game, we *never* found a crucible... got up to day 108 or so without finding one, so our base was made of layered concrete. It was only some time after that that we managed to get one, and each horde we almost lost the base to demos and other hard hitters.

If you found onr 'easy before the second horde' then that's kind of amazing to me. I even made a thread on why I was having so much trouble finding one, and people were saying it was a combination of friendship with the traders, my Better Barter skill and other things that would maybe get it to spawn, along with searching certain locations.

If I might ask, where did you get yours? With all I was being told and what happened, I'm curious as to how you came to think it was 'easy' to get so early on.