the M60 is terribly ineffective

[ProxyJames]

so I been playing around with the M60 a little bit (normally I just run around with a .44 or SVD) and found it extremely ineffective, mind says it does 76 damage but that is not correct, it takes about 20-60 rounds to kill 4-5 zombies and considering that 7.62 only stacks to 150 its a great way to run out of ammo, and yes I have all the buffs for it, I just rather spend 4 7.62 rounds to kill the same amount of zombies even faster than with the m60

[pApA^LeGBa]

ProxyJames の投稿を引用：

ElDudorino の投稿を引用：

It burns through ammo but it takes down zombies fast. It does exactly what it's supposed to.

it in fact does not mow down zombies just as fast, same run I found a level 6 pipe rifle and found it way more effective at killing large groups of zombies because despite lower stats it has higher accuracy and can be control fired much more better as where the M60 is just a spray and pray nightmare, overall I think using the mp5 is a much better option because of the higher damage output and larger ammo pool

Nah. That might work in lower difficulties and with slow zombies. I wanna see you use a pipe rifle against a huge screamer horde on warrior or higer and running zombies. And the rifle? One shot vs 130 shots until you need to reload? The reload kills you faster than you can say "pipe rifle".

In a horde base you can use a pipe rifle, but you would still kill way faster with a M60. Out in the wild? Nope.

[jamesglen7]

It's my preferred weapon and bails me out every time with 123 round magazine. I have specific uses for each weapon and all are kept in good condition. Anything goes on Day 590.

[Macdallan]

ProxyJames の投稿を引用：

honestly the assault rifle tree is kind of dumb for a bunch of reasons
1. attack power is not properly represented, the m60 does way less than it really does, I have hit more 1 hit kills with the AK
2. the 7.62 ammo pool is small and assault rifles do not make the best use of use of it, however sniper rifles only make really good use of it down the line when you can make the SVD because the pipe and hunting rifles are worthless because of slow reload times and only one shot and are out preformed by the primitive bow and the leaver action rifle only holds 5 shots and takes alot longer to reload than lets say the pump shotgun or anything else in that tier
3. the MP5 is just better in every way, 300 rounds per stack, ignores armor at close range, every 3 shots does 100% more damage witch makes the 1% damage per hit look small as the only way to get a bonus that big on a assault rifle is to get 100 hits in a row without missing and that is pretty much is never going to happen because sometimes zombies just decide to go prone without animations and you miss

1. Yes it is. The M60 is firing 7.62 ammo and it's in line with the other weapons that fire that particular round. You have 44 base damage for the M60, 38 for the tactical rifle, 30.4 for the pipe machine gun, 59 for the hunting rifle and lever action rifles, 56 for the marksman rifle, 44 for the pipe rifle, 35 for the AK.

2. Yes, the 7.62 only stacks to 150, same with shotty ammo, because they're larger rounds. 9mm and .44 are much smaller. Take 3 seconds to Google photos and you'll understand why that's reasonable. If you think any of the single shot, or 5 shot, weapons are useless then you aren't using them properly. They're not meant for up close engagements but long range takedowns. I don't use rifles very often but I break them out on horde night so I can get a few long range shots in when there's time to do so. They're also fine if you're on top of something or in a secure base with time to reload. You're simply not using them in the correct situations if you've got issues with using them or with the reload speeds. They're not meant to be better than a proper machine gun at dealing with large crowds at medium or close range. You can also grab run and gun so you can reload while moving at full speed and that definitely makes rifles in closer range encounters more likely to be viable.

3. No, it's not better in every way starting with the smaller ammo capacity, shorter maximum effective range, and lower base damage output. Its perks help make it better than it should be (because a lot of perks are just not well implemented and too good, unbalanced, or just plain magical) but it's not superior to the M60 in the right hands and with the same points in the relevant perk and stat.

[RasaNova]

ProxyJames の投稿を引用：

honestly the assault rifle tree is kind of dumb for a bunch of reasons
1. attack power is not properly represented, the m60 does way less than it really does, I have hit more 1 hit kills with the AK
2. the 7.62 ammo pool is small and assault rifles do not make the best use of use of it, however sniper rifles only make really good use of it down the line when you can make the SVD because the pipe and hunting rifles are worthless because of slow reload times and only one shot and are out preformed by the primitive bow and the leaver action rifle only holds 5 shots and takes alot longer to reload than lets say the pump shotgun or anything else in that tier
3. the MP5 is just better in every way, 300 rounds per stack, ignores armor at close range, every 3 shots does 100% more damage witch makes the 1% damage per hit look small as the only way to get a bonus that big on a assault rifle is to get 100 hits in a row without missing and that is pretty much is never going to happen because sometimes zombies just decide to go prone without animations and you miss

Attack power is exactly as listed, and this can be easily verified by using DM to turn on health bars.

Not sure what you mean about ammo pool. Do you mean amount available at any given time? Because that isn't typically an issue, unless you're spraying and praying all the time. Which you could still do but yeah you would need to spend more time on gathering/crafting ammo. M60 and rifles can't really be compared, they have very different roles and are in different skill trees.

MP5 is a fine gun if you're doing an agility build. I'm not a fan of the shorter range, smaller ammo capacity and lower damage output, and it just doesn't have the same ability to mow down an incoming swarm. But sure, it's fine for shorter range room clearing.

It's hard to know what you're basing your M60 experience on, I have to guess it's HOW you're using it, and what mods, skills, and perks you've got. Also personal preference may be a factor, for example I never used to like shotguns, then I loved them, now I don't like them again and will take the m60 over the auto shottie any day.

[Jack Cheddar]

pipe rifle > M60? Oh, you silly kids and your Red Bull induced hallucinations. LOL
(just yankin' your chain)

Here's what I know. Fire an M60 like a drunken revolutionary and you won't hit s***. Fire it in short controlled bursts and every bullet finds a target.
Damage? Pieces fly off the zombies when I shoot them; heads explode. I'm satisfied.
It's accurate at great distance.
The ammo capacity is at least double any other weapon.
Reloads are slower but only needed half as often. With perks etc reloading time is cut considerably.
Its' rate of fire is highest @ 440 rpm. AR = 405, AK = 360, pipe rifle = 120 <--- he heh
For crowd control, it comes out on top.

[Jim Lahey]

seven の投稿を引用：

The only problem with the M60 is the loonnnngggg reload. And any interruption of the animation means you have to do it again. It's a great weapon if you have pauses in the action though.

There's an easy workaround for that problem.

Have a 2nd or even a 3rd M60 in your toolbar.

When one runs empty switch to the next one.

I do the same thing with pipe shotguns and stuff like that early on.

[seven]

Jim Lahey の投稿を引用：

seven の投稿を引用：

The only problem with the M60 is the loonnnngggg reload. And any interruption of the animation means you have to do it again. It's a great weapon if you have pauses in the action though.

There's an easy workaround for that problem.

Have a 2nd or even a 3rd M60 in your toolbar.

When one runs empty switch to the next one.

I do the same thing with pipe shotguns and stuff like that early on.

Yeah, and then what do you do when the third runs out? Switching between multiple weapons of any kind depends on the chance to reload them all at some point. I've done hordes with my only weapon an m60. It works if you can find a lull in the action, or tank damage long enough, but there are easier ways to fight.

[ElDudorino]

Having duplicate guns is similar to having the drum magazine in that it gives you that extra burst time to take down a group quickly. I don't use duplicates but I have often switched from one gun to another once my magazine was empty just to finish off the stragglers and avoid reloading mid-battle. It's a perfectly cromulent strategy.

[MM1]

"Money, money, money. I won't melt my money..."
Mr Krabs, is that you?

[Macdallan]

ElDudorino の投稿を引用：

Having duplicate guns is similar to having the drum magazine in that it gives you that extra burst time to take down a group quickly. I don't use duplicates but I have often switched from one gun to another once my magazine was empty just to finish off the stragglers and avoid reloading mid-battle. It's a perfectly cromulent strategy.

Yeah, it just makes sense doesn't it? Even if you have duplicate guns having at least two firearms that are fully loaded and on your hotbar is a good idea because switching is almost always faster than reloading. If they're different weapons it gives you more options, too. I like carrying a crossbow, an auto shotgun, and a semi-auto pistol.

If you carry two M60s with drum magazines, and know how to use that weapon properly, then I can't imagine running into too many situations, other than a horde night, that would require you to reload once you've exhausted the ammo in the first one and have swapped to the second. The pistol I carry has about 20 rounds in the mag and an auto shotgun that has maybe 16 or 17. I rarely have to reload more than once during even the largest hordes in Tier 5 POIs. I really can't imaging having an issue with ammo using a pair of M60 with drum mags because that's probably giving you at least six times the ammo that I have and you should be dealing a reasonable amount of damage if you can hit most of your shots and pull off a few headshots.

[Scaven666]

M60 is the pinacle of crowd control... if you find it doesnt work for you... try modding it right... fore grip mod and/or retracting stock mod comes to mind

[RasaNova]

Scaven666 の投稿を引用：

M60 is the pinacle of crowd control... if you find it doesnt work for you... try modding it right... fore grip mod and/or retracting stock mod comes to mind

I'm usually doing aimed burst shots, the mods I pick are drum mag, reflex site, bipod, full auto. For late game hordes I might swap out the bipod & site for cripple 'em and rad remover.

Drum mag is a must. Sometimes I go for barrel extender or fore grip, can't go wrong with either. I think silencer even works, but... Come on.

[ElDudorino]

I don't really get the point of the rad remover other than as a first mod for the base damage bonus. It stops regeneration but regeneration is only I think 1hp/s and I'm doing 500dps or whatever.

It's not like I'm hitting them for 10 damage then kiting them for 8 seconds where the regen would actually matter... They're probably regenerating 0.2% of the damage I deal and the number of hits required to kill them is the same with the rad remover versus with a stock or something.

[Macdallan]

ElDudorino の投稿を引用：

I don't really get the point of the rad remover other than as a first mod for the base damage bonus. It stops regeneration but regeneration is only I think 1hp/s and I'm doing 500dps or whatever.

It's not like I'm hitting them for 10 damage then kiting them for 8 seconds where the regen would actually matter... They're probably regenerating 0.2% of the damage I deal and the number of hits required to kill them is the same with the rad remover versus with a stock or something.

Yeah, I don't see the point of it at all. If it was a rad remover and would knock the zed down from irradiated to feral, well, that would be worthwhile.

As for the OP - I think their issue is PEBKAC, it comes down to lack of knowledge and lack of skill. They don't understand the game mechanics well enough to know that the M60 is a great weapon, and they don't have the skill or knowledge to use it properly - yet. Maybe with some of the hints in this thread they'll figure it out.

[doublejesus]

For solo T5 missions M60 basically replaced explosive arrows for me(agi build) and 7.62 is way cheaper than the explodie boys. It's still a backup weapon I only recently even put points into. But when 10+ zeds are rushing you in an enclosed space I feel blessed to have found one.