7 Days to Die

7 Days to Die

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o_O 8/set./2022 às 2:14
High hopes for A21 ..?..
I really really hope that A21 is a game changer, or better said, i hope A21 brings me back to Vanila 7DTD, because with the quality of the mods out there is so great that i have no wish to come back to vaninilla. I prob wont cuz while the pimps get us riding a gyro, im rocking an Apache Heli with working missiles. Best luck to you pimps.
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Exibindo comentários 4660 de 72
MoistGamer 11/set./2022 às 14:26 
da da da high high hopes for something
somesomething stars when I couldnt make a killing
Didnt have a dime but they always had a vision
A21 hiiiiiiiiighhhhh hopesssssss
VideogameAddiction 11/set./2022 às 16:02 
Escrito originalmente por gn_fighter:
a overhaul-mod should make the experience.. differnt not plainly better or worse.

I actually disagree with this. Mods in general should make a game plainly better, as that is literally what they are supposed to do, modify/improve the game.

This is from someone who does not mod games that often. I think there are only 3 games I have ever added used mods on, this one not being one of them.
meganoth 12/set./2022 às 16:36 
To shorten our discussion I left out everything where I generally agree or have nothing to comment.

Escrito originalmente por gn_fighter:
If you see it from that ankle you are indeed correct.. although i would disagree on the DI part but that is a topic we could write entire essays about.

However regarding F76 i don't consider it that this is all there is to it. I am also looking at the state of the game when it came out.. feature-barren and with worst bugs than many alphas or betas. A point where, in the past, modder's would have jumped in an helped out. But with F76 that was just not possible. And yes they "fixed" their game later on... but then again i would claim unlike SP-Games like F3 for F76 they had to because for them it was a "running" product not a "finished" one. Finished is here in "" because of DLC-options.

I don't have a good theory on why F76 was released underdeveloped. My best guess would be that the owners (zenimax at that time, right?) needed some income to show to their share holders.


Escrito originalmente por meganoth:
I'm saying this isn't a universal problem, there are many players who are very happy with the game as it is.

Well.. on that topic we could speculate with the "ignorance is bliss" approach. But i don't think it's to speculative so i will drop it.

I agree (if you meant we just don't have any data to make a good guess). TFP has the principal ability to find out through their telemetry, we don't have any way at all

Escrito originalmente por meganoth:
No idea about the rolling back, but you seem to be speaking of UL and DF as you mentioned them previously, right?
Both are the most polished mods and probably also the currently most popular mods (DF surely, UL maybe) that I know of and I have repeatedly recommended one or the other or both to players. Both seem to be the mods that are mentioned the most.

Which makes me suspect that you didn't select them completely randomly either.

That is correct. I take it the crux of this matter is that there are also overhaul-mods where you consider that the changes make the game much worse and the vanilla is much better in comparison going back to the "survival of the fittest" issue? I am not sure that a worsening is the bar we want to use. As i tried to explain and you seem to agree.. a overhaul-mod should make the experience.. differnt not plainly better or worse.

I would agree. But the measure whether an overhaul is better or worse is a rather subjective determination.

In the case of DF for example I don't like the progression even though it is very well balanced, and that is a very subjective assessment. The additions to the base game (like the additional zombies, the story addition about the bunkers) is of high quality as well, I'm just not sure yet whether the bunkers represent too much of a difficulty spike.

But more to the point, there are very talented modders around, and TFP may have professionals but they basically have the same tools at hand as everyone else. If we had some objective way to measure I'm sure eventually a mod would eclipse any base game simply because of the law of numbers: Have enough modders try it and produce enough variations and one will come out that is better as the base game.

Are we there yet? We have a different opinion on that, but even if it were true I wouldn't see it as a catastrophe for TFP. Sooner or later it will happen if 7D2D keeps entertaining enough people.

This is also where luck comes in, part of game design in my opinion is luck. I once heard a story about one of the famous classic games (might have been Civilisation) middle in development just was not really fun to play, it felt sluggish somehow. But they didn't know what was wrong. Eventually someone changed some seemingly unimportant game value and suddenly it clicked, suddenly the game was fun. Had that someone not tried out this change, who knows, Civ might not have become such a huge success.

Escrito originalmente por meganoth:
I don't know what you are refering to with the zombie-ai-war.

Well.. some youtubers like josh like to "break" the zombie ai and design bases around it, to really simplify horde-night by making afk-bases ect. and the funpimps seem to wage a "war" with those guys resulting in the mentioned shovel-hands or the destroy-all-mode.

the problem, in my opinion, is that their attempt to fix those "ai-exploits" has other drawbacks as well. going back to the shovel-zombies they not only gave them the ability to dig faster then a digging-maschine but also the ability to hear everything on the grid to combat bed-rock-mining as well. this however also resulting in out-door zombies hearing you 3 levels below or above ground when you just loot a trash-can in sneak-mode the pinnacle i experienced with that was a zombie reacting to me drawing a bow for a steal-kill on the second floor of a building.

at least i haven't heard of a mod that can fix this for me.. but that again this an also be my ignorance.

Stealth got a heavy rebalance when light level got added to the sense-mix and auto-aggro rooms got changed to recognize your stealth level instead of being just auto for everyone.

Now stealth is more random and more difficult in daylight. But (IMHO) this has nothing to do with digging zombies or a war with youtubers. In the forum TFP had posted a few reasons why they did change how stealth worked and none of that was to combat any exploits.

On horde nights zombies can sense you everywhere, on normal days they are rather deaf. I'm regularily mining in various depths and it is VERY rare that a zombie hears me. But I prefer light armor, maybe you are trying to be silently mining in scrap armor and that is and should be harder.
My last info I heard about this was that bedrock is a few meters too deep for them to hear you no matter what you do or how loud you try to be. Except for horde night.
Última edição por meganoth; 12/set./2022 às 16:37
Jim Lahey 12/set./2022 às 16:41 
Escrito originalmente por meganoth:
I don't have a good theory on why F76 was released underdeveloped. My best guess would be that the owners (zenimax at that time, right?) needed some income to show to their share holders.




I know why they did it.

Because they knew that despite how "unfinished" the game was the name "Fallout" would sell a ton of copies of the game. So they released it early to make some easy cash on Fallout's good name and figured that they can just fix the game that was very clearly still in an Alpha state with patches.

Bethesda does this all the time with Elder Scrolls and Fallout games.
meganoth 12/set./2022 às 16:50 
Escrito originalmente por Jim Lahey:
Escrito originalmente por meganoth:
I don't have a good theory on why F76 was released underdeveloped. My best guess would be that the owners (zenimax at that time, right?) needed some income to show to their share holders.



I know why they did it.

Because they knew that despite how "unfinished" the game was the name "Fallout" would sell a ton of copies of the game. So they released it early to make some easy cash on Fallout's good name and figured that they can just fix the game that was very clearly still in an Alpha state with patches.

Bethesda does this all the time with Elder Scrolls and Fallout games.

They could have gotten the easy cash as well with a more polished game a few months later. And then not devalue the name "fallout" with that action
Última edição por meganoth; 12/set./2022 às 16:51
Jim Lahey 12/set./2022 às 16:53 
Escrito originalmente por meganoth:
Escrito originalmente por Jim Lahey:



I know why they did it.

Because they knew that despite how "unfinished" the game was the name "Fallout" would sell a ton of copies of the game. So they released it early to make some easy cash on Fallout's good name and figured that they can just fix the game that was very clearly still in an Alpha state with patches.

Bethesda does this all the time with Elder Scrolls and Fallout games.

They could have gotten the easy cash as well with a more polished game a few months later. And then not devalue the name "fallout" with that action
Yes they could have.

But this is Bethesda we're talking about. Remember the abysmal state that Skyrim came out in? It was plain and simply unplayable on consoles for the longest time.


The day that Bethesda publishes a polished game is the day it's a game they have not actually touched. Case in point. Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal.
gn_fighter 12/set./2022 às 19:29 
Escrito originalmente por meganoth:
Stealth got a heavy rebalance when light level got added to the sense-mix and auto-aggro rooms got changed to recognize your stealth level instead of being just auto for everyone.

Now stealth is more random and more difficult in daylight. But (IMHO) this has nothing to do with digging zombies or a war with youtubers. In the forum TFP had posted a few reasons why they did change how stealth worked and none of that was to combat any exploits.

Yes but that is something that is explaination of stealth within the poi or outside of an poi and i totally understand that and can work with that.

what i am talking about is zombies reacting to stealth-stuff you do within the poi when they are outside.. where they shouldn't see lights or hear you sneakiely draw your bow, when even the zombie in front of you can't. And yes i am usually fully stealth-specced.

For a long time i thought that was some kind of bug with A20 where walls and floors would ampliefy sound rather then dampen it.. until someone mentioned that was more to combat bed-rock-mining.

Escrito originalmente por meganoth:
I'm regularily mining in various depths and it is VERY rare that a zombie hears me. But I prefer light armor, maybe you are trying to be silently mining in scrap armor and that is and should be harder.
My last info I heard about this was that bedrock is a few meters too deep for them to hear you no matter what you do or how loud you try to be. .

Nope i only use heavy armor during horde-nights... during regular days ( and nights ) i either use padded armor ( for a very long time ) or military when i have finally skilled the light armor perk ( resulting in skipping leather altogether ). And yes usually the military-armor is also modded with muffle-connectors.

I sure have made other experiences with bed-rock-mining i can tell you that.
meganoth 13/set./2022 às 9:54 
Escrito originalmente por gn_fighter:
Escrito originalmente por meganoth:
Stealth got a heavy rebalance when light level got added to the sense-mix and auto-aggro rooms got changed to recognize your stealth level instead of being just auto for everyone.

Now stealth is more random and more difficult in daylight. But (IMHO) this has nothing to do with digging zombies or a war with youtubers. In the forum TFP had posted a few reasons why they did change how stealth worked and none of that was to combat any exploits.

Yes but that is something that is explaination of stealth within the poi or outside of an poi and i totally understand that and can work with that.

what i am talking about is zombies reacting to stealth-stuff you do within the poi when they are outside.. where they shouldn't see lights or hear you sneakiely draw your bow, when even the zombie in front of you can't. And yes i am usually fully stealth-specced.

For a long time i thought that was some kind of bug with A20 where walls and floors would ampliefy sound rather then dampen it.. until someone mentioned that was more to combat bed-rock-mining.

How do you know that this guy wasn't just repeating some (false) rumor? I never heard that walls and floors amplify sound or should do so.

I heard developers say that inside/outside determination is a difficult FPS-heavy calculation. Or determining whether there is a closed wall between you and another entity. So they use very fault-prone heuristics. Or in the case of sound maybe none at all to save FPS.
I'm not sure how sound works in detail as it was some time ago it was discussed.

I can imagine that the developers want mining a few meters below ground to be dangerous. But I have neither experienced any problems with mining below 20meter under ground and I also have never heard from a developer that they wanted to prevent mining at bedrock.

Escrito originalmente por meganoth:
I'm regularily mining in various depths and it is VERY rare that a zombie hears me. But I prefer light armor, maybe you are trying to be silently mining in scrap armor and that is and should be harder.
My last info I heard about this was that bedrock is a few meters too deep for them to hear you no matter what you do or how loud you try to be. .

Nope i only use heavy armor during horde-nights... during regular days ( and nights ) i either use padded armor ( for a very long time ) or military when i have finally skilled the light armor perk ( resulting in skipping leather altogether ). And yes usually the military-armor is also modded with muffle-connectors.

I sure have made other experiences with bed-rock-mining i can tell you that.

Very strange. I assume you usually play with mods, are you sure you have seen this in vanilla too ? Maybe the modders changed this (maybe inadvertedly) while balancing something else.
Escrito originalmente por o_O:
I really really hope that A21 is a game changer, or better said, i hope A21 brings me back to Vanila 7DTD, because with the quality of the mods out there is so great that i have no wish to come back to vaninilla. I prob wont cuz while the pimps get us riding a gyro, im rocking an Apache Heli with working missiles. Best luck to you pimps.
Careful buddy, you'll piss off the devs with talk like this. They don't like being told that they're objectively wrong and are ruining the vanilla experience with their crap XD
Seriously, that zombie crawling mechanic that they actually believed was passable? Atrocious, disgusting. Incompetent. The general consensus is that they literally attacked the player experience by implementing this "feature", they full on assaulted it. Like they literally deliberately made their game worse for everyone, just to spite the minority of players who put hatches in doorways. It's Auger Hands, all over again.

I want to believe in them, but they're like the stereotypical alcoholic who just can't get his 2 weeks sober chip. They keep screwing up alpha after alpha. Mods are the future. Workshop support will save us all from what they've done to our favourite game. I'm not mad, just disappointed. They've really let us all down. And it's not a one-off anymore, it's a full-fledged pattern. It's a behavioural routine for them. They truly hate us all.

(Twenty bucks says this comment gets removed and I get a ban for being "toxic")
Última edição por Discipline Before Dishonor; 13/set./2022 às 10:33
Escrito originalmente por Cor.:
Escrito originalmente por o_O:
I really really hope that A21 is a game changer, or better said, i hope A21 brings me back to Vanila 7DTD, because with the quality of the mods out there is so great that i have no wish to come back to vaninilla. I prob wont cuz while the pimps get us riding a gyro, im rocking an Apache Heli with working missiles. Best luck to you pimps.

Make no mistake. Its going to be a game changer alright.

just not what youre thinking it will be.

Personally, I see it failing worse than A17
This. Removing action skills and gun parts, and giving the zombies auger hands was honestly when the vanilla experience really started to go downhill. Super power candies, linear loot progression instead of chaotic loot (stone arrows in a gun safe? GTFO), and they made it so every POI is a self-contained dungeon where zombies won't even spawn unless you enter the room. It's all such a mess now. Why do I have to kill zombies to get better at mining? They literally pidgeonholed every single-player into strength and intellect. That's the game now. AND it's trader-centric, so no more exploration, basically it's just a quest fest of linear progression and investing in strength and intellect because core game mechanics are contained within those two attributes. I mean I don't think they could have messed up worse if they deliberately tried to. Personally, I'm confident that I'll never waste time in vanilla again. I'm not alone either, because streamers seem intent to just switch between overhaul mods now. The only exception is Glock9 in his Nightmare 2 series, but honestly, even he is getting angry regularly at the jank of that horrendous crawling mechanic. He's almost died to it, several times. Also to zombies getting stuck in floor blocks because of that broken crawling mechanic. Watching people defend TFP's creative decisions has been a delight, because they can't really justify the changes, they can only simp.
Última edição por Discipline Before Dishonor; 13/set./2022 às 10:43
gn_fighter 13/set./2022 às 13:56 
Escrito originalmente por meganoth:

Very strange. I assume you usually play with mods, are you sure you have seen this in vanilla too ? Maybe the modders changed this (maybe inadvertedly) while balancing something else.

Yea pretty sure. I even complained about this when a20 came out before i discovered the overhaul-mods and how better their experience is for me.
Cor. 13/set./2022 às 13:58 
Escrito originalmente por God At War46:
Escrito originalmente por Cor.:


About that.

I'm sure you know about the Window Drawing bug thats causing all the lag in cities right?

guess what. A MODDER FIXED IT. Its in NexusMods right now.

IMHO this "Direction" they are going in is because of ONE person.
We all know who that is. The same one that wont listen to the community. The Same one that has wanted 7D2D to be a looter shooter for a long time now.
Link? I'd definitely like to use this mod.

Head to Nexus Mods and search for "Increase FPS in skyscrapers and cities"

I'd give a link, but dunno when/if it would be approved
meganoth 14/set./2022 às 16:13 
Escrito originalmente por gn_fighter:
Escrito originalmente por meganoth:

Very strange. I assume you usually play with mods, are you sure you have seen this in vanilla too ? Maybe the modders changed this (maybe inadvertedly) while balancing something else.

Yea pretty sure. I even complained about this when a20 came out before i discovered the overhaul-mods and how better their experience is for me.

Ok, I made an experiment now: Created a new game in A20.6, increased my level, days and gamestage (once to 60, and in another night to 238), went straight for bedrock and used a combination of auger, shotgun and **dynamite** to make a 200 meter long tunnel straight into the city. At night, no stealth, even donned heavy armor for the last few hours

Result: Lots of zombies (including a bear/dog horde) spawned above me (I checked with listents command) but I never heard them enrage or do anything. And afterwards I checked the surface with a nail gun, not a single dent anywhere, i.e. not a single zombie tried to dig, not even once.

(OT: Was reminded how fun it is to mine with dynamite, should do this more often)
Última edição por meganoth; 14/set./2022 às 16:15
gn_fighter 15/set./2022 às 1:49 
Escrito originalmente por meganoth:
Ok, I made an experiment now: Created a new game in A20.6, increased my level, days and gamestage (once to 60, and in another night to 238), went straight for bedrock and used a combination of auger, shotgun and **dynamite** to make a 200 meter long tunnel straight into the city. At night, no stealth, even donned heavy armor for the last few hours

Result: Lots of zombies (including a bear/dog horde) spawned above me (I checked with listents command) but I never heard them enrage or do anything. And afterwards I checked the surface with a nail gun, not a single dent anywhere, i.e. not a single zombie tried to dig, not even once.

(OT: Was reminded how fun it is to mine with dynamite, should do this more often)

Just did something similar in my vanilla-install-folder with less days, more level, no shotgun. sadly steamoverlay didn't work for me or else i could've shown you the two zombie-filled holes they dug.

It didn't even take that long for me to hear them dig through the stone-surface-area of the wasteland ( i created a 100% wasteland-biome to take a look at the new map-gen while at it ). So.. no idea what is different for you.
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Publicado em: 8/set./2022 às 2:14
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