ADS takes up stamina now?

[Big Mud]

Tell me this is just a sick April fools joke, in no world should I be aiming down sight, have a zombie get too close for comfort and have no stamina to retreat and reload. MID. FIRE. FIGHT. Absolutely dumbest feature added besides working survivors and raiders that were removed for no reason.

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by Amins:

Is this the new "A pig killed me" thread?

It's perfectly appropriate to have aiming use stamina. It absolutely makes sense from both a realism and game balance perspective. Matter fact, I feel it should be expanded on as the lack of stamina has no effect on aiming. Your ADS should become less steady as your total stamina decreases to the point of just not being able to do it when it's depleted. You shouldn't be able to have perfectly steady aim after completely exhausting yourself from running.

Very true. Most FPS type games don't necessarily deplete stamina while aiming, but they DO wobble the aim more and more the longer you hold it, only really giving 5-10 seconds of effective aim time. If we compare to many other games with ADS this one is a lot more forgiving.

Originally posted by kl250d:

I think ADS using stamina makes sense until you have the bipod attachment, just because holding a weight with an outstretched arm will tire anyone out, but after the bipod is attached, holding the gun with the weight rested on the bipod shouldn't use stam anymore as it'd require no more effort than just holding the gun which uses no stamina in game

Yeah that makes sense, or at least it would if we could actually go prone. The bipod attachment is fairly silly and abstract as it is now, but it exists so sure why not have it reduce or negate stamina drain.

[Amins]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Originally posted by Amins:

This is a good point. Although, the concept of the bipod mod never made sense to me in this game. Realistically, you would need to fire your gun while prone to make use of it, which isn't something you can do. Having a bipod on a rifle while standing would seem like it would make it more difficult to aim.

But from a gameplay stance, it would make sense to eliminate the stamina cost.

I'd swear there was a point at which you could mount a bipod'd gun onto a surface in front of you to help stabilize your aim.. I'd swear that was a vanilla function, maybe back in like, A12? But I suppose it could've been a mod thing.

If it was a vanilla thing, it sounds like the kind of thing that wouldn't have worked the greatest in practice. Particularly after the game had gone through significant design redirections.

Although, trading off mobility for long-range stability would have been a nice design choice.

[kl250d]

Originally posted by Amins:

Originally posted by kl250d:

I think ADS using stamina makes sense until you have the bipod attachment, just because holding a weight with an outstretched arm will tire anyone out, but after the bipod is attached, holding the gun with the weight rested on the bipod shouldn't use stam anymore as it'd require no more effort than just holding the gun which uses no stamina in game

This is a good point. Although, the concept of the bipod mod never made sense to me in this game. Realistically, you would need to fire your gun while prone to make use of it, which isn't something you can do. Having a bipod on a rifle while standing would seem like it would make it more difficult to aim.

But from a gameplay stance, it would make sense to eliminate the stamina cost.

Yeah i just reckon the finer details like that would probably be implemented on a final release sort of thing. I do think the bipod needs a little love and i reckon it would be cool to be able to snap it to the ground for less sway and recoil.

Taking away stam usage while aiming down sights would just give it a tiny bit more usage for the long guns (even though the long guns generally kill everything quickly with headshots so the stam usage would be really low anyway)

[Amins]

Yeah, at this point I feel like the bipod has no purpose. I can aim just fine without it and anecdotally, I haven't noticed any difference when it is attached. Although, I'm not the type to sit in once place and aim down sights for extended periods.

[kl250d]

I think the only time that i run out of stamina is the first horde night that i have a handgun because its headshots dont always one tap even the basic zombies. As soon as i have an ak/tactical assault rifle or a pump action ive never needed to worry about it again

[Amins]

I usually spend my first horde night running through the streets kiting zombies, hiding in a house if I need to regen my stamina, so I ADS very sparingly. I'll line them up and pop them in the heads a few times with a handgun, then hip fire when they start getting closer, turn around and reload while putting some distance between us. So I suppose I've gotten used to managing my stamina usage. I know that I'll need a reserve so I can run away when I need to.

[Big Mud]

Originally posted by Amins:

Is this the new "A pig killed me" thread?

It's perfectly appropriate to have aiming use stamina. It absolutely makes sense from both a realism and game balance perspective. Matter fact, I feel it should be expanded on as the lack of stamina has no effect on aiming. Your ADS should become less steady as your total stamina decreases to the point of just not being able to do it when it's depleted. You shouldn't be able to have perfectly steady aim after completely exhausting yourself from running.

Youre really going to hate any modern FPS when you find out that literally no other game uses stamina when ADS lmaoooo

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by XI-10:

Originally posted by Amins:

Is this the new "A pig killed me" thread?

It's perfectly appropriate to have aiming use stamina. It absolutely makes sense from both a realism and game balance perspective. Matter fact, I feel it should be expanded on as the lack of stamina has no effect on aiming. Your ADS should become less steady as your total stamina decreases to the point of just not being able to do it when it's depleted. You shouldn't be able to have perfectly steady aim after completely exhausting yourself from running.

Youre really going to hate any modern FPS when you find out that literally no other game uses stamina when ADS lmaoooo

Um... that's not at all true, like I said earlier 7D2D is actually a lot more forgiving than the many games that reduce your ability to aim when scoped for more than a few seconds.

[Big Mud]

Originally posted by RasaNova:

Originally posted by XI-10:

Youre really going to hate any modern FPS when you find out that literally no other game uses stamina when ADS lmaoooo

Um... that's not at all true, like I said earlier 7D2D is actually a lot more forgiving than the many games that reduce your ability to aim when scoped for more than a few seconds.

I cannot name another game off the top of my head, besides the one that you just named that requires stamina degen while ADS,the concept makes sense to an extent but useless in most games.

[Jolly]

Isn't the reason you lose stamina is from holding your breath to make a better shot?
In Arma 3 that happens but you can make holding breath a separate key from the aim which would be cool if this game had that as well.

[Amins]

Originally posted by XI-10:

Originally posted by Amins:

Is this the new "A pig killed me" thread?

It's perfectly appropriate to have aiming use stamina. It absolutely makes sense from both a realism and game balance perspective. Matter fact, I feel it should be expanded on as the lack of stamina has no effect on aiming. Your ADS should become less steady as your total stamina decreases to the point of just not being able to do it when it's depleted. You shouldn't be able to have perfectly steady aim after completely exhausting yourself from running.

Youre really going to hate any modern FPS when you find out that literally no other game uses stamina when ADS lmaoooo

Guess what, this isn't a modern FPS! At least not a typical one. It's a survival game with FPS elements and as such, doesn't make you're character a super soldier that can aim or swing their weapons infinitely without getting tired.

[Dazzer667 [TR]]

Dunno if this is good or bad but I didn't even notice there was a stamina drain when ads :D

[RayTcharlze | #FreeTheWorkshop!]

Originally posted by SkepticJoker:

ADS stamina usage adds nothing of value to the game. Most of the time it won't matter, but when it does happen to get in the way, it will be a frustrating situation. I bet if it were removed most people would either not care of be happy about the change.

It does : when against other players, you have to take something away when it gives an OP advantage. imagine this scene : Player A is atop a tower (or whatever) with a sniper rifle ready to snipe some poor lad coming more or less his way, he's got the situation advantage, the weapon advantage, the damage advantage, and the range advantage. He could literally stay there looking in the scope for hours, oneshotting every poor lad coming this way, until he has to log off or something...
Sure, there could be a vengeful poor lad's companion trying to shoot at him, but he would most probably fail because of range and situation, and die too.
So he can try to sneak in, even up to literally becoming a mole, digging through dirt until "under" that sniper tower, but then what ? he climbs that ladder, get heard or spotted, and get a headshot before coming in. same thing with stairs and doors, he would make sure there are some noisy things to break in hearing range before entering.
Now the vengeful one has an idea, "let's use that grenade thingy so I take the advantage", but if the sniper guy can just turn around and run/jump away immediatly, they're back at the same square, even though the other player showed ingenuity, perseverance, discretion, to counter most of the sniper's advantage and try to finally take him out.
it's literally the sniper's game, and the sniper's rules. if he can just go unsufferable brat-mode like "nope, you can't kill me because my cape is made of heat-resistant adamantium that deflect your Heat-ray superman-eyes even though you discovered my secret base AND found out my evil plot AND my only weakness..." and change the rules, then you better not play at all with that kid.
Same thing here, it has to have a drawback. if your argument is "I play solo so being even with other players is of no concern to me", then mod that stamina use out of ADS and be done with it. although that would be admitting you get outsmarted by zombies

Originally posted by Amins:

Is this the new "A pig killed me" thread?

It's perfectly appropriate to have aiming use stamina. It absolutely makes sense from both a realism and game balance perspective. Matter fact, I feel it should be expanded on as the lack of stamina has no effect on aiming. Your ADS should become less steady as your total stamina decreases to the point of just not being able to do it when it's depleted. You shouldn't be able to have perfectly steady aim after completely exhausting yourself from running.

This. That's the part that made sense in the morrowind game. if your low endurance mage is out of breath, gasping for air after running full tilt to escape a monster, his concentration will not be the same, nor his enunciation of those magic words, and you'll most certainly fail unless being a good enough mage using simple enough magic spells...

Here, you have a lump of metal resting at arm's length, you have to prepare for the shot you might take at ANY instant should you decide to press the trigger, that has a toll on your arm and shoulder... if you have EVER played a console game with some "VERSUS" screen battle against other players (like you know, kamehameha versus gallit gun) and the one inputing the more button press is the winner, you'll know how tense your arms will get after a few games, and learn to have a rest position until the very last moment (when the 2 attacks connect)

Originally posted by XI-10:

Youre really going to hate any modern FPS when you find out that literally no other game uses stamina when ADS lmaoooo

Modern doesn't mean better, or even good. "Modern game" soldiers getting headshotted by a sniper, seeing red for 15 seconds, breathing heavily for 10, and up after only 5 seconds of "shock" screen, without any medkit use... yeah, no, thanks. if it's gonna be arcade, pump it up full of lazors and plasma balls, with heavy electro music, thanks...