Huge amount of ammo..

[Tin]

In previous alpha's I was a hoarder of brass. Literally. But now i'm in day 110 and I DIDN'T USE the workbench to craft a single bullet.

That's completly unbalanced.

At first I thought this was because of the new pipes guns that need ammo, but after finishing many horde nights, it's unbelievable the amount of ammo dropped by zeds.
And much more from looting in the game.

By the way i think that pipe guns should have a different ammo from the normal guns.

[Nemmy]

Huge? Where? I loot wasteland only even then i can’t find THAT much ammo

I do have good amount yes but im going to need them all for the horde night

Honestly im glad i don’t need to rush workbench to be able to craft bullets

[CatPerson]

Didn't read the entire thread but I've definitely found more ammo as loot than in A19, on average. Especially as a solo player and not someone who's playing on max/crazy difficulty settings.

I don't know how you'd balance it for single-player/less difficult settings vs. MP/group and higher difficulties, tho. I personally don't mind if there's a lot of ammo - but I'd guess on harder difficulties/Wasteland, eventually the z's would be spongey enough to go through a lot depending on playstyle

Doesn't really bother me to have a lot of ammo in a chest tho.

[Humpenstilzchen]

Publicado originalmente por ↯ℤ𝕚𝕟𝕕𝕪⛦:

Publicado originalmente por Potato:

Nope 100% loot all vanilla % no mods.

then we can conclude it is pure luck and isn't related to the balance of the game

First of all stop that "we" bs, speak for yourself and yes it is absolutely related to the balance of the game since I play all vanilla. What is this for a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ way to say my feedback isn´t relevant lol.
I loot a lot and also kill a lot of zeds with melee and only use guns for the "oh crap moments" though sometimes I shoot just for fun since I keep finding such ridiculous amounts of ammo in stashes and especially on zombies I don´t even know what do with it all. Two days ago I got a stack of 260 rounds for the 9mm from a single zombie which is insane for someone who only uses very little of his ammo and only goes for headshots.

And don´t get me started on hordenights, I have chests at my hordebase just to put all the ammo and stuff in which I loot from the lootbags since I can´t even carry that much. I get much more back than I invest in hordenights.

[Tin]

Well.. people seems to forget that the word SURVIVAL is in the title of this game.

Food and ammo are not implemented now in any category of SURVIVAL. They are implemented like going to the grocery store or ammo store, the difference here is there is no store but crates or drops from horde nights to get the bullets.

It is not about playstyles or whatsoever. Its about NOT using the workbench ANYMORE to craft a bullet. That's it. I put nearly 100 hours in this Alpha 20 and i don't feel the need to craft a single bullet.

That doesn't happened to me in previous alphas and i played this game in ALL styles and i was in the NEED to craft ammo. Now i'm not.

Same with food. I remember Alpha 16 were you can literally die in the first week due the lack of food. Well, i'm not asking for that maybe, but something more balanced.

Same with ammo.

Remember mining nitrate powder or coal??? How much nitrate powder or coal do you mined????? How much??? If you are not in to pipe bombs or bombs etc.. I will tell you how much... nearly cero. Because you don't need gun powder to use then in the workbench.

I actually changed my playstyle to some kind of "bomb expert" in order to pass the horde and make useful the workbench to craft pipe bombs.

I think it is unbalanced and need to drop down the amount of ammo, so we relay more in to crafting. Not 100% crafting. Not every day crafting bullets at every minute, not that, but not relegating the workbench to nearly 0 for crafting bullets.

[Flugan]

Ah, yes, it's insane. In A19, I saved every bit of ammo I could, for horde night. I used somewhere between 1500 and 2500 rounds per horde night, plus ammo for turrets (1800 9mm and 900 shotgun shells,) so in between blood moons was spent mining, mixing gun power, smelting, making bullets, looking for bullets, and hoping I'd have enough come blood moon. Except for extreme circumstances, I only used a bow and a steel club, in part to keep noise down but mainly to save bullets.

Now? I find myself spraying bullets because my boxes are full, my inventory is full, and I either use bullets or toss them. I do quests for loot and exp, and even though I use bullets with abandon I still end up with more going out than going in.

[JimmyIowa]

Publicado originalmente por CatPerson:

Doesn't really bother me to have a lot of ammo in a chest tho.

It creates two rather large problems that I can see.

One is that it eliminates the need for crafting ammo. Entirely eliminates the need to collect and smelt brass, and most need to mine nitrate or coal. Which is all bad. It greatly dumbs down the game.

Secondly, and this one is even larger for us melee players, it's making melee builds feel pointless. I can you you this as melee player in this game, since A15. A20 is the first time in 6 years I have ever felt like melee is pointless. There used to be a payoff in playing melee that you didn't need to craft ammo or mine for gunpowder and had more time between hordes. For this convenience you pay the price of slower killing, and taking more damage and crits in combat on a day to day basis, and needing high reflexes on horde night to get kills without getting stomped.

Now, when you walk out of every single poi with far more ammo than it took to clear I have been seriously questioning what is even the point of playing melee in A20. When ammo is super-overabundant and literally overflowing in crate after crate by day 25, there's no point to melee anymore.

When I walk in a POI normally I would sprint around each zombie hitting it with melee while dodging it's attacks, and keeping an eye on my stamina so I don't get in trouble. But it's much much faster and easier to just stand in one spot by the door and casually shoot everything one after another while not being at any risk. Previously I had the knowledge that the point of doing it the hard way was not needing to mine and craft ammo. Now that point is gone.

To put this in perspective for non-melee players who don't realize how large a problem this is, half of all weapons and combat skills in the game are feeling left behind and pointless. That's not a small issue.

[onanonehand8]

I quit playing when 17 dropped, Only played 19 for maybe 10 days before 20 dropped. I didn't see a difficulty in finding ammunition in 19. I had a crap ton of it by second horde night. So I don't know what you complainers are talking about.

Is the game unbalanced by measure of ammunition? I don't know. Since I am a creature of habit, I have already started crafting bullets because I have the materials. Since I try not to waste materials, Those materials are going to be crafted.

Maybe it seems unbalanced in lower difficulties, I can assure that on insanity, I don't have chests of bullets.

[MoistGamer]

Publicado originalmente por JimmyIowa:

Publicado originalmente por CatPerson:

Doesn't really bother me to have a lot of ammo in a chest tho.

It creates two rather large problems that I can see.

One is that it eliminates the need for crafting ammo. Entirely eliminates the need to collect and smelt brass, and most need to mine nitrate or coal. Which is all bad. It greatly dumbs down the game.

It doesnt just dumb it down, it ends it. I mean, outside of horde night I guess (for me). Once your guns are T6 or good enough, and youve got the aug and all the ammo - its over really. So completey agree, major dumb down to the point of non relevancy

[MiSFiT77]

Yeh it's not just ammo that's too easy to get now it's guns too. Albeit pipe guns. I don't have a problem with is per se. I mean you play the game as it presents itself. If it gives you lemons you make lemonade, if it gives you pipe guns and lots of ammo you spend your first horde night remarkably untroubled. Back in the day it was rare to have a gun of any sorts on horde night 1. So it was more intense defending your little tower with a level 1 bow and a few dozen stone arrows. But that could be a bit intense, so ppl started camping on the rooves of brick buildings and not really fighting the horde, because there was no way it could destroy a brick build so early in the game. So I guess the introduction of more easily accessible weapons is to tease us out of our preferred safe hiding spots. My point. Guns are more abundant, so is ammo. Weather it's a good, bad or irrelevant thing is up to the individual I guess.

[Arctic Ice Fox]

From my experince the ammo drops for the forest are indeed too much. In the forest i am literally running around with 6 or 7 stacks of shells and just going full murder hobo. Door in the way? Blast it. Need a hole? Blast one. HOWEVER, when i hit other biomes that level of ammo drop is only JUST enough to keep ontop of things in the early to mid game. Especially when you bump the difficulity up to harder levels and turn on feral sense. Nothing says screw you quite like blasting a zombie bear only to have 6 birds a pair of zombie dogs and 2 dozen zombies charge you from nowhere.

You do reach a point where your toating a full auto shotgun or other top tier weapon around with a 4/5 or even 5/5 weapons skill and it becomes too much again but by that point your saveing it for either horde nights or are in a place where ammo would not have been a concern before.

[RasaNova]

I think part of why it seems like we're getting more ammo is because as we get better we use less. As we improve, we use melee more and when we shoot we're getting better hits. A new player isn't likely to have as much ammo saved as an experienced player. I'm at a point where I only use guns for hordes and emergencies, as a result I've got thousands of rounds saved without needing to craft it.

There was a time when I would shoot my way through everything, and ammo felt more scarce then - but in reality it was easiest for us to get than it is now.

[jackthewarlock]

Same here. Small group and we already had 1000+ 7.62 by day 16, 50% loot, 4 days between hordes. PoI stashes pale in comparison to the amount of ammo you get from hordes, because it's enough to set you up for the next one. I think they're just trying really hard to get players to try out the new pipe weapons, because it's what the fun pimps always does. Introduce a few feature, buff it to heaven, and nerf the counterparts to hell.

[briancourt2]

The issue is the amount of ammo dropped in yellow bags.

And not using turrets, which are now useful as they don't set off Demos anymore, but why sacrifice the XP.

No silencer on the Sniper without waking the world up push me to use more bolts. And even those I can't see to run out of and never need to make any. The game is no longer a survival and just a first person shooter. Lame.

[briancourt2]

I am also a believer that you should need gun parts to repair, not repair kits.

[MiSFiT77]

Publicado originalmente por briancourt2:

I am also a believer that you should need gun parts to repair, not repair kits.

This. And (even tho it makes some sense) repairing pipe guns with one piece of pipe is way to easy, since pipe is abundant. At least repair kits are rare and/or require crafting. At lower level I'm leaving my proper fire arm at home and using pipe gun because it's cheap and easy to repair and good enough to get me out of those rare situations where I need it (similar to as stated a couple of posts up) and most the time I'm using a stone sledgie (killed a radioactive cop with it on day 1) because like the pipe gun it costs one simple easily obtainable thing to repair it. Cheap low maintainence, easy to repair, no big deal if I lose or need to drop it and in the hands of an experienced player will deal with most situations on normal settings.