Take your light-speed vultures and put them somewhere else.

[DOOM_Dwarf]

So, a few hours ago I found myself driving 2 km back to my base with bloodmoon happening above my head. What got me into that mess was my poor decision-making. Fair enough. I knew I had to go straight to my horde base without taking the necessary supplies from my main base to avoid damages.

AND THEN, at 22:01, I was horrified to see 8 forkin' vultures instantly swarm my truck, almost stopping it every 0.5 seconds. The following 2 km ride was one of the worst things I experienced in a game.

Devs can you please not do this? I know you implemented that to stop players from "cheesing" the horde night in a vehicle, but why? Over the years you made many changes to stop players from straying from "the intended way to play". Is 7dtd not a sandbox game? Zombies with Auger-hands are bad enough, now it's light-speed vultures? Have you seen how utterly silly and immersion breaking those things are? Come on. That was the first time I really stopped having fun playting 7dtd.


Yes, it's another "venting my frustration" post. I waited a few hours to post it to avoid F-bomb saturation.

[Ketrai]

The solution to these kinds of problems isn't to completely nerf a tactic into the ground. It's to lean into player desires and construct a meaningful challenge around it instead. Players wanna use vehicles during horde night? Let em. But perhaps a vehicle tier system. Make donuts harder, so people have to dodge and weave on a road. Maybe even prep a road in advance. Perhaps zombies start to form blockades, forcing players to drive to a new area to keep moving and keep alive. Or they can use a limited resource to blow up blockades. Work with players, not against them. Integrate player desires into the gameplay experience

[mathaniel]

Work smarter, not harder. Prep roads/ escape routes in advance +1. blockades, explosives, what were those things on trains/ cattle guards?, cobbled for 4x4`s, in case Z`s start blockading? I do miss running down Z`s and killing them with the motorcycle, but them some did only that for xp, oh well. Hmmmm? Base somewhere close to some smallish mountains, bore straight through big enough for a motorcycle. Make a dash if you get over run, run in lock fortress doors with stand by defenses on generators maybe? Zip out the other side and then dash away, while the buzzards are at the front doors to the fortress? Might work?They wouldn`t see you exit the back side right? Did I just see a solution? I don`t know, never played that far sorry. Instead of beatin a dead horse, try a mule it might just get you to water.

[Van N00b]

Originally posted by Faerador:

Anything that removes options from the players to force a certain playstyle in an "open world sandbox" is just bad and unimaginative gameplay design.

Correct. I am just 6 days in-game atm but what i did read here so far sounds very restrictive to me. If someone wants to cheese/cheat that its is no reason to implement game mechanics to prevent it. It wont work anyway.

Instead of spending time into counter-cheese/cheat measures maybe concentrate on finishing the game (first).

[Van N00b]

Originally posted by Trooper Bri:

Pretty much every game out there is designed basically to be played as intended by its creators. Maybe go yell at Shigeru Miyamoto for making Mario run around like an idiot instead of whatever you were thinking of.

One of the least illuminated comments here so far. Starts with Mario-Brothers not being an open world game ........

[Samantha Raven]

They should add a system to choose zombie types in your game world or not.
I personally hate the spitters and vultures too.
I'm also not sure ill like the raiders/bandits if they going to attack our bases.
I wouldnt mind so much if they added with the red flag territory box that had a repair system that auto repairs all the damage blocks and things inside the territory as long no enamy inside and its bin some time betwin a item took damage that things will slowly start to repair them selfs.

Thing i hate most about this game is the terrible repair system i dont even really bother repairing no more its much easyer just to replace the broken blocks then go threw each freakin item seeing if it needs repair or not.

This why i turn blood moon off i like blood moon but i really hate repairing in this game its far too tedious and you have no idea what needs repairs or not and going to each single item to repair not fun.

I know there a repair block mod but they should just make it part of the game with the red flag territory block be default.
Also allow user in server setting to enable the the red flag box territory repair mode or not could also repair ground damage too if enable or disabled.

[ShyRy3D!]

Originally posted by DOOM_Dwarf:

Originally posted by lvl. 50 honkler:

I don't get it. You made some poor decisions which you admitted yourself and got rightfully punished for it. And now you are saying "well yeah, I messed up and got punished for it, but actually I think I should get a get-out-of-jail card for free". How is the game supposed to tell whether or not you are trying to escape the bloodmoon horde or are just in a hurry to get to your base?

Let me clarify. I'm not complaining about "getting punished", I'm complaining about the devs implementing ridiculous nonsense to prevent players from playing a certain way. (I mainly take issue with glitchy superspeed vulture swarm and zombies sensing you through 10 meters of rock and then digging straight to you.)

I want to start by saying, I have so much love for this game. And secondly, you are 100% correct. This game has been in development for SO LONG. Think of how many dev hours have been wasted trying to "Fix" how people are playing the game. Zombies are supposed to be blood thirsty and STUPID. Why are we not applauding these people that create these cheese bases? They outsmarted the A.i.
We need to focus on fine tuning the game. I can think of a few solutions to fix most game breaking glitches. And it just involves random events triggered by player safety and other factors. But let the zombies stay stupid. Let people try to scavenge up gas and ride out horde night if they couldn't build their base quick enough. BETTER YET, what if the heat from your base still attracted the horde to your base and they could destroy it while you were gone if you didn't stay to defend it or turn off all heat generating things?
It would be a trade off. Want to keep your progression going on horde night by crafting and forging materials?, stay and fight. Wasn't prepared and need to just get by?, take off in the 4x4 or on the bike if you have the gas supply. No need for vultures coming at you 90mph or zombies knowing exactly where you are. Sure spawn that huge wave of them on Horde night, but just send them your way. Make a noise and they will come tear your crap up. This game builds up all this anticipation for horde night and it does deliver. .. ...until you see all this crud that the devs have done to try and stop people from playing their own way. It does break immersion; however, the game is still so fun to me. Just needs to be reworked a little to stop with all this silly crap.

[Mithrandir]

Originally posted by Campin Nubi from Hell:

Originally posted by Trooper Bri:

Pretty much every game out there is designed basically to be played as intended by its creators. Maybe go yell at Shigeru Miyamoto for making Mario run around like an idiot instead of whatever you were thinking of.

One of the least illuminated comments here so far. Starts with Mario-Brothers not being an open world game ........

7dtD isn't just an open world game, the devs always wanted strong survival and tower defense elements in it. That's not new and they have been faithful to those elements since the beginning. Even the very name of the game refers to the "normal" blood moon timer.

For those who don't want the blood moon horde to break their "open world fun" they've included a user setting to cancel it completely. Hell they even included a setting to have no enemy at all.

But for those who select the complete survival experience, the devs seem to want the BM horde to be a main survival challenge in a survival game. Which is absolutely normal and fun to me as this game isn't just a sandbox, but have other strong elements included.

But wait, they also allow the players to edit/mod things ... you can edit the vulture speed ( = problem solved for the vehicle users), or edit their spawn to zero. BUT, some ppl still complain that the devs "force them to play a certain way" ... /smh

[RayTcharlze | #FreeTheWorkshop!]

Originally posted by Campin Nubi from Hell:

Originally posted by Faerador:

Anything that removes options from the players to force a certain playstyle in an "open world sandbox" is just bad and unimaginative gameplay design.

Correct. I am just 6 days in-game atm but what i did read here so far sounds very restrictive to me. If someone wants to cheese/cheat that its is no reason to implement game mechanics to prevent it. It wont work anyway.

Instead of spending time into counter-cheese/cheat measures maybe concentrate on finishing the game (first).

This doesn't work either. You let them do it for a while, and the day you remove that "ability", you get flamed to no end because "Why can't we keep doing this or that", even so you actually finished the game core, the mechanics, the visual, and everything in-between, before doing so...
It's FAIR for devs to point players in the intended direction as soon as possible, preferably BEFORE they develop the "bad habits". Here, they did it right after, in what EVERYBODY felt was a punishment. As a dev, you cannot get clearer than that.
Also, before thinking "they restrict muh playstyles", they did give that game a name, which is EXPLICIT about its nature, and so is the game description.
Complain all you want about them restricting playstyles with the A21, it's a FACT some playstyles will disappear, despite some people pretending "that it's baseless allegations" or w/e, but the DEVS THEMSELVES and the A21 PLAYTESTERS have given feedback to the community, and we've already proven, based on said feedback, how 1) it removes playstyles 2) it hurts solo players, 3) it hurts team players.
When they change the core mechanics, it removes real possibilities and it's unfair to the players;
when they ADD TMNV, it inconvenience those that didn't play the intended way, YET they can remove those vultures and keep playing like they used to. Think of it as "guidelines" from devs, it's a "Come on bro, really ? Jumping in that 4x4 and driving all night instead of fighting ? We spent WEEKS perfecting that bloodmoon hord mechanic and you just decide to troll us ?". It also was made to prevent more "Look, that game is so bad that you can just cheese the big event by driving around in a circle" videos and reports that could literally KILL the game.
What would players do if Blizzard left a gaping hole in its game design, that allowed, let's say, a certain guild that wanted to exploit that design flaw with the help of a "mod" (cheat), to bypass almost everything in a long dungeon and skip directly to the final boss without having to burn anything in-between (no consummables, no cooldown, no risk, skip the bosses chain to access the final boss), and an EXTRA FAST dungeon run that bring the best loot in the game, on repeat, without Blizzard doing anything against it once it is public knowledge ?
For those unaware, google "World of Warcraft overrated AQ40".
Blizzard had to react with severity in accordance to the "crime", and very publicly.
Without that, they'd (at best) have lost the trust of their players, if not their complete support and subscriptions.

Same here, on a much lower severity scale of course, TFP decided of the intended way, and provided something to deter players from doing it "the wrong way". They cannot be called non-reactive. They STILL decided to let you be the "master" of your gameplay, with the many options and mods and .xml edition, as long as it is YOUR choice on YOUR server/sologame.

Again, not the best solution, Just providing some "understanding" for people that seem to be unwilling to do so.

Another comparison, maybe that'll help some people understand :
Imagine you're at the beach, it's sunny, nice, hot, you get into the water and at some point, you slip and your favorite speedo "generic brand swimwear brief" get caught up on a sharp rock and torn open.
You are now having your manly attributes flopping in the water, and it would be flopping in view of everyone, kids included, if you were to get out of the water like that.
You call some guy for help, explaining what just happened, and understanding the risks, he decides to lend you his swimming trunk since he brought both a trunk AND a brief in his bag, depending on how the day goes.
That trunk isn't a perfect fit for you, slightly tight in some spots and really unflattering to your greek god body, and we're not even talking about that awful taste in color the guy has. But, at least, you're not dangling that 3-pieces set in front of the families around.
And given the guy told you he's not leaving the beach until many hours later, you can still enjoy the beach for a few hours before going to the closest cabin and changing back into your clothes, and giving the helping guy his trunk back plus a fresh beer for the help.

At some point, you'll have to shop for a new swim brief, or decide to change the rules and go to a nude beach instead, to bath and tan just like you did when you were 2yo and no one thought anything of you being uncovered.

Same in 7DTD, you started without (swimsuit / TMNV), then they became the rule, but you can still do without them in your own (home / game), or go to a place that do without them as a rule (nudist camp / Multiplayer server without TMNV).
And you can still understand that not every parents want their children to behold the majestic sight of your staff of life and his 2 acorns; just as you can understand that devs don't want people multiplying videos and reviews that are hurting the game itself.
You can find the (swimming trunk / TMNV) badly done and unsightly, and still understand it would be worse without anything to take its place.
You may very well tell the (guy / devs) that his/their taste is and suggest him/them something better and more suited.

Also, about that specific part :

Instead of spending time into counter-cheese/cheat measures

It's precisely the opposite: they DIDN'T spend enough time to make it okay, thus the "hate for vultures", in order to save time for something else, and never went back to those TMNV, which are still an inconvenience to players refusing to use the tools given by Devs
to get rid of them... Sadly, all that time "not spent on fixing the TMNV problem" has been used to re-re-rework some basic core stuff, in a way that's getting an alarmingly high rate of disapproval (somewhat justified too, but let's wait and see, we still have the option to stay on 20.5 if A21 breaks too much gameplay styles)

[Vlad]

TO EVERYONE SAYING ANYTHING RELATED TO VEHICLE SPEED.

with a vehicle doing 55 meters per second(~123mph), the vultures STILL out ran me and got infront of my vehicle.

they are not immersively out running slow vehicles, they are the bloodmoon police who come for anyone getting in their vehicle to run away. they are damned good at it too.

this speed during blood moon IS NOT in the xml, the agro speed for vehicles is a non-blood moon vulture. Blood Moon turns vultures of all kinds into speeding bullets, that will travel faster than you can ever hope to go without flying off the world map. I ALSO learned that vehicle speed has no impact on ability to climb hills. not even torque.

You're welcome, my multiple abrasions, lacerations, infection, fatigue, and blood loss made this experiment possible.

One chicken was killed during the course of this rigorous test. Rest in piece Lil Nugget.

[RayTcharlze | #FreeTheWorkshop!]

F for Lil Nugget

[Necrozis]

i forget if its undead legacy or darkness falls but one of those mods makes vehicles other than bikes quit working a few game hours before horde night. takes care of the ability to run away from horde night quite effectively and avoids the problem

[Rio]

Originally posted by Necrozis:

i forget if its undead legacy or darkness falls but one of those mods makes vehicles other than bikes quit working a few game hours before horde night. takes care of the ability to run away from horde night quite effectively and avoids the problem

Its darkness falls. And that doesn't make sense. Because your gun turrets and stuff still work. Including the gas generators that have the same engines as in the cars.

[RayTcharlze | #FreeTheWorkshop!]

Originally posted by ⛧Coeur de blanc⛧:

Its darkness falls. And that doesn't make sense. Because your gun turrets and stuff still work. Including the gas generators that have the same engines as in the cars.

Still makes more sense gameplay wise, and it could be fixed to not allow "diesel generators" during the red mist phase, forcing players to rely on batteries instead...
you need enough battery for your whole setup, but at the same time, the more you have the faster it drains, depending on batteries quality... but you'd probably save some power by waiting til the last second before turning the battery bank on... no need to waste ammo and precious energy for the few random zombies wandering around between 18:00 and 22:00.
To the point some player would even have multiple battery banks just to be sure...