Alpha 20 Farming / Plant seeds

[Funchy]

I just got to the point where my plants have matured, but all i got was:

-2 plants on every plant
-and on one corn plant i got a corn seed also

The plants were completely destroyed and did not revert back to their seedling stage.

Is this intended? That would mean Farming is only viable at Farming lvl 3 (gaining 6 plants ( so one plant and one seed basically)).

[Zordiark Darkeater]

Day 9 and im sitting on 6-7 full stacks of meat lol

you need food ? just go to the snow biome and start murdering the infinite amount of Wolfs Bears and Lions that usually spawn near you as you casually walk arround with Pipe Weapons.

If anything THATS what needs nerfing not the Corps lol

[Brishan]

Brian explain how you replant infinitely when you don't get the seed back and it costs more than you harvest. Something you just claimed is possible. Oh wait your response is to rely on RNG giving you the seeds you need. Farming is the only tree in the entire game that it is mandatory to take every rank of to get any real benefit. You claim Tazman doesn't listen but then ignore all arguments that prove you wrong.

Of course that means there is no point in discussing anything with you because as you pointed out there is no point discussing something with someone who refuses to listen.

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por Zordiark Darkeater:

Day 9 and im sitting on 6-7 full stacks of meat lol

you need food ? just go to the snow biome and start murdering the infinite amount of Wolfs Bears and Lions that usually spawn near you as you casually walk arround with Pipe Weapons.

If anything THATS what needs nerfing not the Corps lol

Agreed, that is probably next to get tweaked down the road. Right now the food survival is a joke and the farming change was the first of many balance changes that im sure will come before the game is released

[tazman1]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por tazman1:

You've been told the answer repeatedly and continue to ignore it. With a few points in the tank over time you can plant infinitely, with 3 points it becomes a 100% chance and removes all elements of RNG.

Before that it's strongly weighted you will be able to replant infinitely, you just need to have more then a handful of seeds which drop often or are easy to acquire.

Your repeated ignoring of the answers because you don't like it shows that discussion is pointless so I'll add you to the ignore list as many others have.

No point in discussing something with someone who refuses to listen.

Give a valid argument that I haven't already pointed out the flaws in and I am more then willing to listen.

The issue is that people like you refuse to accept anything outside your own viewpoint.

I have repeatedly asked about early game farming and how its not broken compared to other early game activities that can be done.

And the response as been the same LATE GAME FARMING IS BROKEN. That is not a damn answer about early game mechanics.

Allow me to reiterate it take 4 IN GAME DAYS FOR CROPS TO GROW.

I am not talking about A19s always regrowing crops in about a day. Replanting every time is not the issue. The issue is that you can't always 100% of the time replant unless you max this out. That would be like making repairing your equipment require maxing out the specific skill that governs it.

Need to repair you tier 1 club? too bad you need to have maxed out pumel pete to do that. Oh there is a small RNG based chance that you can repair the damn thing but if it doesn't repair your in trouble.

[Brishan]

Yes because the pure meat dishes are worth so much food oh wait do you need to eat half a stack to get your food back up after the stamina drain of a tier two or three mission? Yes yes you do.

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por master_basidine:

Brian explain how you replant infinitely when you don't get the seed back and it costs more than you harvest. Something you just claimed is possible. Oh wait your response is to rely on RNG giving you the seeds you need. Farming is the only tree in the entire game that it is mandatory to take every rank of to get any real benefit. You claim Tazman doesn't listen but then ignore all arguments that prove you wrong.

Of course that means there is no point in discussing anything with you because as you pointed out there is no point discussing something with someone who refuses to listen.

No RNG needed. Tier 3 living off the land guarantees you 6-7 plants back with a 50% chance to get a seed.

So you will ALWAYS have enough to replant with leftovers. Your making the same faulty assumptions that Taz keeps making. You don't have to generate a seed AND get crops to farm.

Again farming is only mandatory to take if you want to generate infinite food. As it's been pointed out by the quote from madmole you don't need any points in it to turn a seed into crops, of which you find seeds by looting.

It's only required if you want to GUARANTEE a method of creating infinite food. Otherwise just plant seeds you find, harvest, and use those crops to supplement the meat, food you loot, and food you buy. You get benefit without a single point in the skill, you just get more benefit and the potential of infinite food by maxing it.

Again that is direct from the developers of the game. If you don't like it then feel free to mod if to suit your tastes.

[tazman1]

seriously how the hell is 20 food every 4 DAYS infinite food when it consumes more food just waiting for your crops to grow.

Don't bother answering that since you already proved you can't give a logical answer to it.

[Brishan]

Wow Brian you miss the point of the argument just like you called tazman and myself liars about not finding things in loot that weren't even in the loot lists at the time which the fun pimps have admitted to in the patch notes for the first patch after they went experimental.

RNG is needed unless you max out the skill which is what I said no other skill in the game requires maxing to get benefit from to max the benefit yes but to get benefit no.

You do need points if you don't find the schematic for that particular seed which is RNG. You need RNG to find seeds you are looking for. They aren't static loot like your statements imply by your claims that RNG plays no part.

Farming is mandatory once you get to the point where missions take you half a day to travel to otherwise you have to spend all of your time hunting with none left to push the missions to unlock further traders.

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por master_basidine:

Yes because the pure meat dishes are worth so much food oh wait do you need to eat half a stack to get your food back up after the stamina drain of a tier two or three mission? Yes yes you do.

Which doesn't change the fact that when you plant a seed you get the benefit from it whether you get 2 plants or 7 plants and a seed. Again that's straight from madmole with how farming should be.

Finding a few corn seeds let's you make other recipes like fish tacos, etc that can be unlocked via hunger, or combined with can food to make chili dogs for instance. It supplements your other sources of food but will never replace them if you don't spec into it a few points worth.

Not liking it doesn't magically change that you benefit from it with no points in farming, you just benefit from it far more with points in farming....

1-2 points in it will vastly skew the numbers over time in your favor, 3 points guarantees infinite food. That's how they want it to be where you have to actually invest in it to generate infinite food. With 3 points it completely negates having to worry about food, freeing up space when looting, saving you money, time, etc.

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por master_basidine:

Wow Brian you miss the point of the argument just like you called tazman and myself liars about not finding things in loot that weren't even in the loot lists at the time which the fun pimps have admitted to in the patch notes for the first patch after they went experimental.

RNG is needed unless you max out the skill which is what I said no other skill in the game requires maxing to get benefit from to max the benefit yes but to get benefit no.

You do need points if you don't find the schematic for that particular seed which is RNG. You need RNG to find seeds you are looking for. They aren't static loot like your statements imply by your claims that RNG plays no part.

Farming is mandatory once you get to the point where missions take you half a day to travel to otherwise you have to spend all of your time hunting with none left to push the missions to unlock further traders.

Well another one to ignore it seems. Again the same old faulty argument.

MADMOLE has already said your wrong. You are confused sadly and only see it as a benefit if you can generate infinite food.

Not sure why you and Taz are obsessed over making faulty comparisons but no other skill in the game passively generates resources like food while your off doing other stuff, so trying to compare farming to other skills is just silly unless you want crops to only grow while you are tending to them.......

Planting a seed and getting 2 corn IS a benefit whether you want to admit or not. Lying and saying it isn't is just sad and shows you can't win an argument.

I'm not going to waste anymore time with people who can't grasp basic concepts so have fun arguing with yourself.

[Brishan]

Brian if you have less than three points in it so max points you get no benefit because if you harvest with less than three points in it and you don't get the seed back you get less than you need to craft a single friggen seed meaning you operate at a negative. farming is literally the only skill this is true of I would not be complaining if they had raised the costs of things and lowered what you get back from harvesting but making it so you can't replant unless you max out is a problem because it means you are forced to go into farming if you want to have access to foods that you aren't constantly having to hunt for.

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por FadeXF:

Publicado originalmente por tazman1:

AGAIN I ASK HOW IS LETTING US REPLANT EVERYTIME on 1-2 perk in LOL broken.

You strongly feel it's not broken to have a static, etc food source for zero perks. Your expectation is that should be given to you freely and you just don't want to acknowledge how over powered that it really is. You keep trying to relate it to stuff that has absolutely line zero to do at all with food or all the other food gathering methods this game offers. To a point it's becoming deliberately obtuse: you are going out of your way to not even acknowledge the entirety of the discussion and now claiming that you aren't being told the answers... the victim again. But, Taz: we have told you over and over and over and over again - literally: I've laid it out for you actually line for line!!

Let me do it again:

FOOD GATHERING METHODS IN 7 DAYS TO DIE:

1) Random loot on the ground and specifically in POI: this takes about 9 hours of your day's cycle and about 3 POIs - later on in the game this activity becomes harder and harder - you can add perks in lucky looter to have better % chances to pull more food per POI however you don't "have to" if you don't want to.

2) Hunting Animals: this can happen just naturally going POI to POI - however a lot of people dedicate 5 hours of a day's cycle to Snow biome to kill cougars and bears - this takes ammo, it has a risk and if you want to pull more food you can spec into hunter.

3) Vending Machine + Trader respawns: this takes some luck but the worst of this method is the dedication required - it takes time every day (3 hours of your day's cycle) to bike/go machine to machine once you have marked active ones. The map will get progressively harder so zombie respawns become an issue.

4) Farming: this takes time to create - and perks - the outcome though is a fully static, fully regenerating, zero time, and zero risk food source. Once you get this going: you no longer have to worry about the food bar but more importantly: there is no longer "a cost" to your day's hourly game cycle - and extensively safer and safer the longer the game goes.

Really sink into this. Really just read it over and over again. You want a highly over powered thing free of charge. They fixed a broken system and you don't like the direction the dev team went: fair enough. But that is the reasoning behind the change.

Besides you actually have several options here to create a play environment that suites exactly your play type: 1) Mods - there are mods that revert A20 to A19 style farms 2) Cheater = On.

What I think you aren't understanding here is that the development team very clearly feels that having this freely given out to every player ("for free") was not the direction they wanted to take it. Who knows: maybe in future they will develop farming towards having an actual risk element to it over time equal to all other food gathering methods AND a daily "cost" in your day's hourly cycle.

These are things you have stated are incredibly important to you: that you have very limited time in gaming - and in my strong opinion based on how vocal you are about this: stop trying to change this outcome instead focus on how to make this game play the way YOU want it to. NONE OF US CARE if you flip cheater mode on and give yourself 1k food, brother... not even one of us does.

Yep it's kinda sad how even after I posted madmoles quote describing how farming exists to SUPPLEMENT your food until you max it they still can't grasp it.

No other skill in the game passively generates resources while you are off doing other things. Yet they expect it to work the same way mining does where you have to be sitting there mining to get the benefit.

Where as with farming you could plant your seeds then go mine if you wanted and generate food and resources at the same time......

Perhaps the devs will change it so you have to stand on the farm plot block for 4 hours for the crops to grow and then they can change it to be infinite food since your spending time generating it now.....

[Brishan]

Perhaps because it's not a supplement when there is no way to replace the crops without RNG being on your side. I wouldn't be complaining if they had increased the wait or decreased the amount you could harvest or increased the cost of the crop plots so long as there was a tangible reason to sink my resources into building said crop plot prior to maxing out the skill when you aren't getting enough back to replant without maxing out there is zero reason to do so.

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por master_basidine:

Brian if you have less than three points in it so max points you get no benefit because if you harvest with less than three points in it and you don't get the seed back you get less than you need to craft a single friggen seed meaning you operate at a negative. farming is literally the only skill this is true of I would not be complaining if they had raised the costs of things and lowered what you get back from harvesting but making it so you can't replant unless you max out is a problem because it means you are forced to go into farming if you want to have access to foods that you aren't constantly having to hunt for.

Again you fail to read....

You find a seed you plant it, you get food. That is a benefit.

Your only calling it a benefit if that one seed produces enough food to be infinite which again Madmole already stated is flat out wrong. Your inability to grasp that shows your not reading...

Also you don't need 3/3 points to profit, it just eliminates RNG and guarantees it. This was before LOTL level 2 was buffed so it's actually skewed more in your favor now

Publicado originalmente por Red Eagle LXIX:

It does make it harder.
Perk level 0
2 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed
Perk Level 1
4 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed
Perk Level 3
6 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed


So with a start of 50 fruit that convert to 10 seeds.:
WORST CASE:
Perk Level 0
20 Fruit + 0 seeds (worth 0fruit) = Loss 30 Fruit
Perk Level 1
40 Fruit + 0 seeds (worth 0fruit) = Loss 10 Fruit
Perk Level 3
60 Fruit + 0 seeds (worth 0fruit) = Profit 10Fruit

AVERAGE CASE:
Perk Level 0
20 Fruit + 5 seeds (worth 25 fruit) = Loss 5 Fruit
Perk Level 1
40 Fruit + 5 seeds (worth 25 fruit) = Profit 15 Fruit
Perk Level 3
60 Fruit + 5 seeds (worth 25 fruit) = Profit 35 Fruit

BEST CASE:
Perk Level 0
20 Fruit + 10 seeds (worth 50 fruit) = Profit 20 Fruit
Perk Level 1
40 Fruit + 10 seeds (worth 50 fruit) = Profit 40 Fruit
Perk Level 3
60 Fruit + 10 seeds (worth 50 fruit) = Profit 60 Fruit

As can be seen, on Average it will take at least one level of Living Off The Land to have a reasonable chance of being profitable farming but even then losses are possible. It will take all 3 levels to guarantee profit.

[tazman1]

and sometimes you are not lucky enough to have a decent Poi to set up as a base camp so if you have to build your base from scratch like I am then YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO FARM.

And no that should not require all 4 freebies and your first 3 levels be put in fortitude to even be feasable.

again show me any other food source in the game with the cost associated with farming.

Vending machines nope still cheaper since you can buy out a trader and his vending machine of the few units of food on average that they have after 1 or 2 missions.

hunting nope thats still cheaper because stone arrows are relatively easy to make.

So only farming thats the only food source that costs you up the rear in both time and resources because what you get from those gore blocks is so freaking little that you are lucky to afford 1 farm plot off of them after a day.