Suggestion: Pipe Weapon Balance

[TheStorySmith]

I've watched a few of the streams and the pipe weapons look like a great early game weapon, but they may be too good.

The ease of crafting seems to be the biggest problem this represents.

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For the Pipe Pistol and especially for the Pipe Machine gun I think adding more needed materials could balance it a bit better.

For the Level 1 Pistol I think adding 1-3 Mechanical Parts and 10 scrap iron would be good for balance.

Still easy enough to get in 1-2 game days, and the Pistol is still Powerful with common ammo and an actual 6 shot magazine.

--

For the Machine Gun 3-6 Mechanical Parts and 15-30 scrap iron and (maybe) make it at a workbench.

Very high odds of getting everything you need for this in the first 2-7 Game Days, the hardest part would be finding the workbench.

This weapon is very powerful, the ammo is semi-rare but can be found in bulk without much luck involved.

Realistically it would need a spring for the blowback mechanism, but scrap iron or Mechanical Parts would be considered the source for the little moving parts.

===

For the Rifle and shotgun the only thing I can think to add to balance would be either Scrap metal OR 1 nail to count for the firing pin/extra bits.

The shotgun seems 'weak' enough for the primitive rank of gun as is due to a lengthy reload and risk from low effective range.

--

The rifle could have a nail or scrap metal added to balance but I feel it is pretty solid as is.

I myself have never had much of an issue finding these things day 1-2, the workbench is the only factor that would make a solid barrier for those unlucky to find the right materials or find a working bench.

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The biggest issue with this balancing I propose I think is probably that when you have the workbench, you would probably just make proper firearms. So I am iffy making it required for any Pipe weapons, even something as powerful as the Pipe Machine Gun.

Anyone else who has seen the streams or has participated in them (You lucky few) let me know what you think, or just let me know what you are excited to try on Monday!

[bloody-nine]

TheStorySmith님이 먼저 게시:

I've watched a few of the streams and the pipe weapons look like a great early game weapon, but they may be too good.

The ease of crafting seems to be the biggest problem this represents.

=========

For the Pipe Pistol and especially for the Pipe Machine gun I think adding more needed materials could balance it a bit better.

For the Level 1 Pistol I think adding 1-3 Mechanical Parts and 10 scrap iron would be good for balance.

Still easy enough to get in 1-2 game days, and the Pistol is still Powerful with common ammo and an actual 6 shot magazine.

--

For the Machine Gun 3-6 Mechanical Parts and 15-30 scrap iron and (maybe) make it at a workbench.

Very high odds of getting everything you need for this in the first 2-7 Game Days, the hardest part would be finding the workbench.

This weapon is very powerful, the ammo is semi-rare but can be found in bulk without much luck involved.

Realistically it would need a spring for the blowback mechanism, but scrap iron or Mechanical Parts would be considered the source for the little moving parts.

===

For the Rifle and shotgun the only thing I can think to add to balance would be either Scrap metal OR 1 nail to count for the firing pin/extra bits.

The shotgun seems 'weak' enough for the primitive rank of gun as is due to a lengthy reload and risk from low effective range.

--

The rifle could have a nail or scrap metal added to balance but I feel it is pretty solid as is.

I myself have never had much of an issue finding these things day 1-2, the workbench is the only factor that would make a solid barrier for those unlucky to find the right materials or find a working bench.

====

The biggest issue with this balancing I propose I think is probably that when you have the workbench, you would probably just make proper firearms. So I am iffy making it required for any Pipe weapons, even something as powerful as the Pipe Machine Gun.

Anyone else who has seen the streams or has participated in them (You lucky few) let me know what you think, or just let me know what you are excited to try on Monday!

might be an idea for us to actually wait and test them in game as a larger sample size. Rebalancing based on the opinions of an audience before release seems pretty dumb. BDO are doing class reboots atm and some of the takes from twitch chat are terrifying.

I watch a lot of streams so Im not hating on anyone for having an opinion but twitch can spark some dent head takes

[=JpS=Red5]

They should make pistol parts, rifle parts, and shotgun parts necessary for making the pipe guns. Making a firearm out of a lead pipe and duct tape is just silly. How would it not explode on the first or second use? At least adding in 'real' gun parts would lend some legitimacy to it.

Also, why a pipe baton and pipe machine gun? Yes it is a game. It doesn't mean the concepts shouldn't make some sense. There is no need for a version of every weapon to exist across early to end game.

[The Undead Watcher]

=JpS=Red5님이 먼저 게시:

They should make pistol parts, rifle parts, and shotgun parts necessary for making the pipe guns.

Congratulations, you didn't understand what the pipe guns are supposed to be.
That's their entire gimmick, they're early game weapons that you don't need parts for.

=JpS=Red5님이 먼저 게시:

Also, why a pipe baton and pipe machine gun? Yes it is a game. It doesn't mean the concepts shouldn't make some sense. There is no need for a version of every weapon to exist across early to end game.

Every playstyle needs to have a T1 to T3 weapon, regardless of whether it makes sense or not. It's a game after all.

[Mollerz]

+1

[RawCode]

to get pistol parts you must disasemble pistol, just to assemble inferior pipe pistol?
are you mad bro?

entire point of pipe weapons that you can craft them day zero and not depend on luck.

[comet_65cali]

Agree with the OP that they should require more components for some of the pipe weapons. I feel with the reload time, minimum rounds, and general slowness the Pipe Shotgun (Esp cause thats the OG Improvised weapon) is balanced, as well as the Pipe Rifle. No complaints about the Baton either.

With the weak damage, and the reload time, The pipe pistol seems OK in balance, but agree that it should require things like mechanical parts or possibly springs.

The Pipe Machine Gun, with its quick reload and 20 round capacity, seems way out of balance for the cost.

[RasaNova]

Yeah I'll admit I had a slight sinking feeling when I watched a couple of the more prominent 7D2D YouTubers mowing down zombies with a pipe machine gun early on day 1.

On the one hand, it's no different really than the blunderbuss over the last few alphas, and the early game ammo situation still needs to be dealt with. But still, it just somehow feels wrong. But I won't judge too hard til I've tried it.

[=JpS=Red5]

The Undead Watcher님이 먼저 게시:

=JpS=Red5님이 먼저 게시:

They should make pistol parts, rifle parts, and shotgun parts necessary for making the pipe guns.

Congratulations, you didn't understand what the pipe guns are supposed to be.
That's their entire gimmick, they're early game weapons that you don't need parts for.

Oh sorry, I didn't realize that you are with the dev team.

Congratulations to you for completely missing or ignoring my point so you could make yourself feel good by posting your superior opinion. Pipe weapons are too easy to make and they should not be. In A19 it takes 3 pistol parts per weapon tier to make a pistol. Instead of requiring 3 parts per tier for pipe weapons, require 1. They become a bit more difficult to make, but at least some precision parts are involved. This is more believable than making one from a pipe and duct tape. You try to make a gun like this and you are just asking to loose a finger, hand, or worse.
[/quote]

The Undead Watcher님이 먼저 게시:

=JpS=Red5님이 먼저 게시:

Also, why a pipe baton and pipe machine gun? Yes it is a game. It doesn't mean the concepts shouldn't make some sense. There is no need for a version of every weapon to exist across early to end game.

Every playstyle needs to have a T1 to T3 weapon, regardless of whether it makes sense or not. It's a game after all.

No, no they do not. There has never been the stone equivalent of a stun baton...because the idea of one is silly. You do not NEED every weapon type to be represented at the lowest and highest tier. There are just some weapons that are better than others. SKILL with a weapon can mitigate the difference in weapon balancing though.

[comet_65cali]

RasaNova님이 먼저 게시:

Yeah I'll admit I had a slight sinking feeling when I watched a couple of the more prominent 7D2D YouTubers mowing down zombies with a pipe machine gun early on day 1.

On the one hand, it's no different really than the blunderbuss over the last few alphas, and the early game ammo situation still needs to be dealt with. But still, it just somehow feels wrong. But I won't judge too hard til I've tried it.

Naw the pipe rifle and pipe shotgun are just replacing the blunderbuss, but with later-stage reusable ammo. I can see myself stacking them on my loadout-bar like the blunderbuss. Those are fine.

I may even try a loadout of two pipe revolvers and see how that goes.

Pipe Machine Gun is seriously OP for a stage-zero weapon. looking at it I even think the reload animation is faster than the M60.

[magnetmannen WW3]

i got to be honest, i probably could not make a gun out of a pipe in 1 day in real life... its hard to make a gun u know, ok a pipe with a hole in for a fuse, then pack it with gunpowder and a bullet, would be pretty dangerous to fire , a trigger is even more hard to make. percussion caps would make a trigger easier to make but there is no such thing in the game.

[TheHellKat]

Personally I feel that the pipe weapons are fairly well balanced. After all if you're finding the game too easy, you always have the option of bumping up the difficulty if various ways.

The only critique that I would have from what I have seen so far is maybe reduce the ammo capacity of the pistol to 3 shots and the machine gun to 15 or even 10 shots.

The rifle, shotgun and baton seem pretty well balanced so far.

[RasaNova]

magnetmannen님이 먼저 게시:

i got to be honest, i probably could not make a gun out of a pipe in 1 day in real life... its hard to make a gun u know, ok a pipe with a hole in for a fuse, then pack it with gunpowder and a bullet, would be pretty dangerous to fire , a trigger is even more hard to make. percussion caps would make a trigger easier to make but there is no such thing in the game.

https://youtu.be/V8IzRT_4rgs

[Ashkorne]

The "problem" isn't the weapons being OP. The problem is early game ammunition availability.

It doesn't matter how overpowered the guns are if ammo is incredibly hard to find.

Finding 1-5 bullets should be the norm, with no ammo as early quest rewards.

[76561197987696714]

I always love these "oh the game is unbalanced now" posts.

Some people like to play the game casually and still have fun crafting stuff early.

You can make the game as hard as you can by upping the difficulty and setting your OWN limits.

Stop trying to spoil other people's fun time.

[Ashkorne]

iNHUMAN님이 먼저 게시:

Stop trying to spoil other people's fun time.

BUY YOU'RE PLAYING THE GAME WRONG!!!
You're supposed to be playing it the most efficient way possible!

YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ENJOYING IT!!11!!