Is that really how it should be?

[ladylysann]

I've played Alpha 20 for about 72 hours now, and I really like it, except for one thing. But it's exactly this point that bothers me that makes me go back to the 19 alpha.

Beet: I'll take two corn seeds as an example. Made from 10 maize. Harvest them and get 9 maize, even though I have the live off the land skill? i.e. I end up losing one maize? Is that really how it should be?

What sense does planting still make?

Otherwise, I like all the other changes very much so far.

[admos]

Hi, this has been discussed in detail if you look up farming on the topic search bar.
People have complained, and other people have analyzed the issue to debunk the complaints.

TLDR from all those posts:

1) it is ONLY nerfed in the early game (if you didn't put any points into farming) to make the skill worth getting.

2) LVL 1 of the skill gives you net profit provided average luck (50% seed chance)

3) it is much worth investing into and will give over 50% (i can't recall actual statistics) more profits when maxed to level 3 provided average luck (50% seed chance)

4) if you get horrible RNG you will get 0 seeds back, it happens but highly unlikely (based on 50% seed chance)

5) the larger your farm, the more your luck evens out and eventually earn profits i.e. you won't lose as much as you gain even if you're converting if you have a large farm. 20~30 plots or so is minimum from experience (not sure about actual statistic)

[slaideri]

The devs desperately try to keep hunger part of the survival. While also having farming. It is apparently a tough issue to balance.

Personally, I don't see the problem. They should make the growing time realistic: 100 days. No more problem with too easy or too unrealistic farming. :D

[ElDudorino]

I imagine they'll redo farming at some point since a lot of people hate the current system. I'm surprised they implemented this system in the first place though since it's pretty garbage.

But anyway, if you have maxed Living Off the Land perk you always make a profit and at level 2 which you seem to have you will generally turn a profit if you have a lot of the same crop but first of course you have to get to the point of actually having enough of that crop in the first place. Easy for corn or coffee, not so easy for mushrooms for example.

Of course, you need a huge farm and will spend a lot of time in menus.

[ElDudorino]

Originally posted by slaideri:

The devs desperately try to keep hunger part of the survival. While also having farming. It is apparently a tough issue to balance.

The thing is, you don't need to farm ever. Food is all over the place to the point that I often won't even loot it unless it's the stacks of 10 you get from air drops, and there are so many animals everywhere I don't even go out hunting because I know a group of wolves will pop by to introduce themselves anyway. Farming lets you consistently have stew but it's impossible to starve even without it unless you just aren't interacting with the game other than mining nonstop (which is the only thing that makes you hungry).

[slaideri]

Originally posted by ElDudorino:

Originally posted by slaideri:

The devs desperately try to keep hunger part of the survival. While also having farming. It is apparently a tough issue to balance.

The thing is, you don't need to farm ever. Food is all over the place to the point that I often won't even loot it unless it's the stacks of 10 you get from air drops, and there are so many animals everywhere I don't even go out hunting because I know a group of wolves will pop by to introduce themselves anyway. Farming lets you consistently have stew but it's impossible to starve even without it unless you just aren't interacting with the game other than mining nonstop (which is the only thing that makes you hungry).

Plenty of food but farming sucks. Maybe the devs just hate farmers?

[Tech Enthusiast]

The current system has a statistical value for "living off the land",... or better: The skill points are less useless now.
But the system sucks, is annoying and people hate it all over the place.

So yeah, Id bet they change it again. Use a mod to fix it up to that point. It really is a game breaking disaster of a change that is just there to annoy the hell out of you.

[ladylysann]

Thank you for your quick answers.

I have invested three points, as I do every time. I must have been really unlucky then.

The other alphas were a bit too easy for me, but that's improved now. Robot hammers don't drop at every corner, I actually had to make them myself. That's why I like the Alpha 20.

But the farming is a bit too much of a gamble for me. Survival or not, I don't want a simulation, I want to play.

So I'd rather cook the vegetables than grow them. Too bad about this part of the game :(

[ladylysann]

Originally posted by Tech Enthusiast:

The current system has a statistical value for "living off the land",... or better: The skill points are less useless now.
But the system sucks, is annoying and people hate it all over the place.

So yeah, Id bet they change it again. Use a mod to fix it up to that point. It really is a game breaking disaster of a change that is just there to annoy the hell out of you.

Never played 7d2d with a mod, but for the farming part I will indeed look for a mod. The only really bad part of the game. Everything else so far I like very much.

[Red Eagle LXIX]

Originally posted by Red Eagle LXIX:

Perk level 0
2 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed
Perk Level 1
4 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed
Perk Level 2
4 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed + 50% chance of additional fruit
Perk Level 3
6 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed + 50% chance of additional fruit

Yes, with 1 or even 2 points of LotL it is possible to have bad RNG and lose out. LotL level 3 is a guaranteed profit.

[Tech Enthusiast]

Originally posted by ladylysann:

Never played 7d2d with a mod, but for the farming part I will indeed look for a mod. The only really bad part of the game. Everything else so far I like very much.

Well worth it to increase difficulty after you have beaten the game a few dozen times.
Usually do 2-3 Vanilla runs each major alpha and then add mods. Darkness Falls is obviously the go-to for increased difficulty, but plenty other overhauls that keep it fresh.

Mods that fix inconveniences are just a side effect really. ;-)

[ElDudorino]

If you got 9 corn back from 2 plants, that means you have level 2, not max level. Max level would give you 12-14 so you would be guaranteed profit. Still have to spend a lot of time in menus crafting seeds, equipping and re-planting them, but you can't lose at level 3.

[william_es]

Yeah, the seemed to have been aiming at nerfing the people who made bases with huge farming plots, and basically had no reason to ever leave their base.

Despite how messed up farming is now, there's actually not a whole reason TO farm at all. You can find a lot of crops all over, and if you're lucky enough to have a POI with crops (like the big farms), it will keep resetting every time the trader sends you there.

I've got one of the HUGE farms near my base, and the trader just keeps sending me back repeatedly. Have huge stacks of corn, potatoes, etc

I just use the farming to get hard to find stuff like the mushrooms for steak and potatoes.

[CellNav]

Originally posted by slaideri:

Plenty of food but farming sucks. Maybe the devs just hate farmers?

Sounds more like players hate not having absolute results with high reward with very little effort than the devs hating the farmers.

[Fe11a]

max living of the land and 4 plants often gives me 1 profit. i think just a chance for a second seed would make it more useful

[ladylysann]

Originally posted by ElDudorino:

If you got 9 corn back from 2 plants, that means you have level 2, not max level. Max level would give you 12-14 so you would be guaranteed profit. Still have to spend a lot of time in menus crafting seeds, equipping and re-planting them, but you can't lose at level 3.

Yes, that is correct. I'm at level 2. I simply forgot to put the talent point I have left into the perk and thought I had already distributed it.

It's already been done and I'll take a look at it now. I don't know what to make of it. I have mixed feelings about it.

I don't really like mods like Apocalypse now, Darkness falls etc. Pockets too big, weapons too utopian, everything seems exaggerated to me somehow.