The "Fun" pimps.. You /sure/ about that "Fun" part?

[LadyRayneCloud]

Why do you continue to design your game in an adversarial, "we must defeat the players" mode of thinking? Why? You remove everything that the community comes up with and enjoys, things that YOU put in the game FIRST. Flat barbed wire, the old spikes, ramp tips, etc. We come up with something fun / cool we enjoy doing and you have to "smash it with a hammer" because... "oh you're abusing X" or "not working as intended" then why the HELL did you put in the game in the first place?

I get it, less than 300 hours of gameplay here, and still a noob, but I can't possibly be the only person that thinks this am I? Every some cool "meta" build comes up, TFP just has to smash it in the next patch. Why? Didn't you want a fun, cool, sandbox, survival, zombie horde crafting game? Didn't you want to give us the freedom to enjoy the sandbox as we will? Or was that all platitudes?

[Shurenai]

It's possible to design something for an intended purpose, and have it be usable in other unintended ways that may not have been thought of during the design process. For example, the first person who made a knife out of a stone or a bone probably did so for hunting purposes- I doubt they ever considered the knife would end up being used in murders for millenia to come while they were making that knife in the first place.

They added flat barbed wire because it was a cool thing- But players found a way of using it in a way that was unintended; a way that made the barbed wire never take damage and so be able to slow zombies without any resource cost.

The intent was for the barbed wire to slow enemies in return for durability that must be repaired/replaced. It was designed with that intention in mine, it was given a hitbox that matched it's shape. For what it was intended to do, it does flawlessly. But because the hitbox can be hidden in a way that never lets a zombie touch it. However, the scan box for the slow is the entire cuboid region of space the barbed wire occupies, and this is hard coded in the engine- if the cube is to have an effect, it affects the whole space.

This same difference in shapes is the reason log spikes also were removed from player access- Because the whole block has the effect of damage, any part of the block deals damage...even the bottom. The spike was disigned with being pointed up, or outward...but it wasn't considered that it could be placed upside down as well.

Edit: To add, It's not about 'winning against the players'; The devs could do that hands down and make the game absolutely unplayable with very little effort. It IS however about making things work the way they are intended to.

[darrylhs]

Some people consider being able to defeat a game in 5 hours fun, some do not

[Kyle]

There is a fine line. If it gets used in unintended ways that break the game in some way, it’s going to get changed. Otherwise you are leaving an exploit in your game. That’s the answer for that small case.

Big picture? I’m very new but read a lot of info about games. This one has changed an immense amount in it’s lifespan. You could argue gaming as a whole has also changed in that timeframe, which means the devs could have a new direction they want to take the game in.

My biggest complaint is how the XP system is built by default. You’re pretty much required to play in a group online, or as a raider, or grind FOREVER solo. But that can be tweaked in the settings to somewhat solve things.

[I can't spell]

The devs are tone deaf to the players. It took a good 3 years just to get more bag space. The old bag used to be like 12 slots or something absolutely absurd. Players would constantly get smacked in the back of the head by a star trek "beem me up" zombie while managing their tiny pathetic little bag scraping and throwing out crap here and there. Seriously, like 3 years, for something so trivial.

[Wolf]

Originally posted by I can't spell:

The devs are tone deaf to the players. It took a good 3 years just to get more bag space. The old bag used to be like 12 slots or something absolutely absurd. Players would constantly get smacked in the back of the head by a star trek "beem me up" zombie while managing their tiny pathetic little bag scraping and throwing out crap here and there. Seriously, like 3 years, for something so trivial.

You act like the 'survival' aspect of the game should suit your needs perfectly. So what if there were 12 slots? Just sounds like something I'd do willingly to spice up an otherwise straightforward playthrough.

[rincewind]

I'm starting to doubt about the pimp part.
They covered the stripper! And are taking out the cheerleader!

Regarding the other, I agree a bit, they need to stop thinking about how to counter cheese and just about how to make the game better, bigger and more fun. Stupid vultures.

[darrylhs]

I certainly won’t assign fault or blame to a dev team that charged me 20 bucks for a game I have played for years!

Pimps keep pimpn

[ciel]

The intended experience is "sit in a box while zombies clumsily all pathfind to the same arbitrary cube and punch it out." so immersive 🤩

[ciel]

Originally posted by Wolfie:

Originally posted by I can't spell:

The devs are tone deaf to the players. It took a good 3 years just to get more bag space. The old bag used to be like 12 slots or something absolutely absurd. Players would constantly get smacked in the back of the head by a star trek "beem me up" zombie while managing their tiny pathetic little bag scraping and throwing out crap here and there. Seriously, like 3 years, for something so trivial.

You act like the 'survival' aspect of the game should suit your needs perfectly. So what if there were 12 slots? Just sounds like something I'd do willingly to spice up an otherwise straightforward playthrough.

Okay, first off, they never said that the game should bend to their whim. Second: a good survival game, for instance, BotW, while having many flaws, almost never during gameplay are you slapped across the face with how rough and unfinished some ♥♥♥♥ is.

BotW? I just wander off and do something else, have fun, don't think about it.

7days? I'm either stuck managing inventory halfway up the pharma tower throwing out 3 stacks of alcohol jars, jogging for like 15 minutes to get to my death drop, fumbling with a broken GUI, taking stuff on and off to repair it, visually unreliable attack animations, yadda yadda yadda. The game doesn't do itself any favors. It repeatedly halts you and tells you to stop enjoying yourself to the point where that becomes the defining overtone of the game.

The fact that the game has no endpoint and that most people will just log off for night 7 if they're playing online says a lot about the actual enjoyability of its core gameplay, LOL. Like, I come back to this game, I enjoy parts of it. But god, you people need to stop acting like defending a developer who isn't paying you and you don't know is some matter of life and death, smh.

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by rincewind:

I'm starting to doubt about the pimp part.
They covered the stripper! And are taking out the cheerleader!

Regarding the other, I agree a bit, they need to stop thinking about how to counter cheese and just about how to make the game better, bigger and more fun. Stupid vultures.

Haha yeah I'm with you there. Not that I need muh boobeez, I just thought the stripper was one of the more unique zombies I've seen in a zombie game, and was actually tastefuly done being a (formerly) very pretty Asian lady with an elaborate koi tattoo... If the nudity was an issue, for the graphic upgrade they could have just covered up her naughty bits! And then, ALSO adding the nightclub zombie for bonus points.

[The Civillian]

umm couldnt the devs just limit how the log spikes rotate like they do with multiple other blocks/items,

Like you cant place a campfire upside down.

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by Junebug:

Originally posted by Wolfie:

You act like the 'survival' aspect of the game should suit your needs perfectly. So what if there were 12 slots? Just sounds like something I'd do willingly to spice up an otherwise straightforward playthrough.

Okay, first off, they never said that the game should bend to their whim. Second: a good survival game, for instance, BotW, while having many flaws, almost never during gameplay are you slapped across the face with how rough and unfinished some ♥♥♥♥ is.

BotW? I just wander off and do something else, have fun, don't think about it.

7days? I'm either stuck managing inventory halfway up the pharma tower throwing out 3 stacks of alcohol jars, jogging for like 15 minutes to get to my death drop, fumbling with a broken GUI, taking stuff on and off to repair it, visually unreliable attack animations, yadda yadda yadda. The game doesn't do itself any favors. It repeatedly halts you and tells you to stop enjoying yourself to the point where that becomes the defining overtone of the game.

The fact that the game has no endpoint and that most people will just log off for night 7 if they're playing online says a lot about the actual enjoyability of its core gameplay, LOL. Like, I come back to this game, I enjoy parts of it. But god, you people need to stop acting like defending a developer who isn't paying you and you don't know is some matter of life and death, smh.

Yes, there IS quite a bit that's unfinished. Assuming BotW is Breath of the Wild, you're comparing a finished, patched AAA title in a different genre to a game that hasn't even entered beta yet. If you compare it to games that are actually in the same genre, think of titles such as Conan Exiles, Ark, etc where you still have inventory management and death hikes.

As for OP - yeah it can be frustrating when things change, and we lose some items we came to like. Usually if they're taken away, it's because they were being abused... All of the ones you mentioned were popular for twisting game mechanics in unintended ways for cheese bases. I'll admit I don't agree with every decision they make, and some of what they consider "cheese" I think is perfectly viable. But for me, for everything we lost we've gained so much more and the game is more fun than ever.

[Taffer9876]

No different than a job. If the employees seem too happy, they make changes. I used to pretend I hated part of a job I liked best so they would putting me on it lol

[kona joe]

what do you expect.. they re pimps. we pay them to use or borrow temporarily their game, we dont own anything,its almost like a tease, no product was exchanged or sold...lol

[ciel]

Originally posted by RasaNova:

Originally posted by Junebug:

Okay, first off, they never said that the game should bend to their whim. Second: a good survival game, for instance, BotW, while having many flaws, almost never during gameplay are you slapped across the face with how rough and unfinished some ♥♥♥♥ is.

BotW? I just wander off and do something else, have fun, don't think about it.

7days? I'm either stuck managing inventory halfway up the pharma tower throwing out 3 stacks of alcohol jars, jogging for like 15 minutes to get to my death drop, fumbling with a broken GUI, taking stuff on and off to repair it, visually unreliable attack animations, yadda yadda yadda. The game doesn't do itself any favors. It repeatedly halts you and tells you to stop enjoying yourself to the point where that becomes the defining overtone of the game.

The fact that the game has no endpoint and that most people will just log off for night 7 if they're playing online says a lot about the actual enjoyability of its core gameplay, LOL. Like, I come back to this game, I enjoy parts of it. But god, you people need to stop acting like defending a developer who isn't paying you and you don't know is some matter of life and death, smh.

Yes, there IS quite a bit that's unfinished. Assuming BotW is Breath of the Wild, you're comparing a finished, patched AAA title in a different genre to a game that hasn't even entered beta yet. If you compare it to games that are actually in the same genre, think of titles such as Conan Exiles, Ark, etc where you still have inventory management and death hikes.

As for OP - yeah it can be frustrating when things change, and we lose some items we came to like. Usually if they're taken away, it's because they were being abused... All of the ones you mentioned were popular for twisting game mechanics in unintended ways for cheese bases. I'll admit I don't agree with every decision they make, and some of what they consider "cheese" I think is perfectly viable. But for me, for everything we lost we've gained so much more and the game is more fun than ever.

It was very generous of me to compare this game's survival mechanics to BotW, when your comparison to other, bad games in a closer genre such as ark or conan who are all crippled by the same things is much more apt. thanks.

see, the thing is, despite budget, at the end of a day, a big title and a small title are just as enjoyable if the game nails its core mechanics. lack of budget is no excuse for lack of vision.

The fact that the game is even still in such poor state after 7 years, a half a mil of startup money and TEN MILLION COPIES SOLD has to indicate that there's something severely ♥♥♥♥♥♥. Other games that do what this do better have come and gone before this game has even seen "completion." Like, this game is practically a case study of the dark years of endless kickstarters for the latest FULLY IMMERSIVE OPEN WORLD PLAYER DRIVEN CRAFTING BASED RPG SURVIVAL GAME. Why are they doing the nth graphical polish when the engine itself isn't finished? Markets have competition, and you can't just pretend that there's justification selling something lacking for money is somehow okay in comparison to other, better alternatives because the creator doesn't have quite as much money and lacks any sort of idea for core gameplay other than "lets just copy minecraft"

This has nothing to do with superficial AAA polish. There's plenty of AAA games that aren't fun. The dev doesn't know what a game actually needs to be fun, he just had a vague idea while playing minecraft.