a17 is a straight downgrade from a16

["Hard Tack" Tom]

I know its a long list, but if you got a minute please hear me out and leave a comment :)

edit: I called it a16 and a17, not a16 and a17, sorry for any confusion y'all


Why i still play A16 over A17
1. Late game took more time to get to: this whole update seems geared towards servers that only go to day 300-700 (2-4 weeks) not servers that I play on that go to 1000-3000+ days. Early game no longer exists since you can hide in your base and spam intellect and craft all quality 6 guns by day 14 - without ever opening a single gun safe.

2. skill tree is much more boring compared to a16. i liked the skyrim system where the more you used a skill the better it got. it took a long time to max out a skill and gave a goal to shoot for late game.

3. Am i the only one who really liked the old wellness system? Maybe tie wellness to a different stat that max hp/stamina but death has 0 penalty now and i just eat uncooked potatoes all day.

4. The mod system should be combined with old gun part system. It feels like in trying to make the game simpler the devs are moving back towards alpha and not to a more detailed finished product.

5. steel bullet casings makes ammo worthless, and 7 days is now a doom remake where ammo conservation means nothing. I liked how rare brass was, it actually made me use the shotgun/crossbow late game

6. Vehicles that were supposed to be the saving grace of q17 are more buggy than minibikes Now you can get your vehicle buried underground AND lose your entire tool belt! again feels like 1 step forward 2 steps back

7. Another thing promised in q17 was behemoths zombies right? theyre still MIA so i still just build a raised reinforced wooden cage with horizontal bars across the front and i can beat the day 7 horde with a wooden club.



TL/DR: a17 feels so boring. with gun crafting dumbed down to the 1st grade level, early game and scavenging phases virtually non-existant, late game purple firearms/vehicles accessible in a week or two through intellect spam, and all reason to keep playing on the same server for more than 15 hours removed from the game.

not to mention...... IF I PAINT DA GUN RED IT GETS MOR HURTY!! WAGGHHH - 1.7 dev logic


edit, cause this got way more replies than i expected:
I may have come across very negative and i didnt mean too, i still love 7 days and the fun pimps for putting all the work they did into A17, but "if it ain't broke, dont fix it". and they definitely broke that adage by removing so much of the difficulty, and removing so many old features. I know that's all part of the process of developing an alpha but it just feels like 1 step forward and 2 steps back. But hey if ive learned anything since release in 2014, The Fun Pimps listen to the community, and they'll always keep working to improve 7DTD

[Raithon]

I think you mean a16 and a17. not 1.6 and 1.7

1. they changed this when they went to gamestages. Day count on server means not a lot now.

2. Your opinion. Its better than spam crafting 5000 stone axes to git gud.

3. the current penalty is a lot better than the wellness system. that had less impact from death than the current one. with the current one it impacts some of your perks and your ability to use them.

4. personally if feels better to be able to choose my mods than just relying on the quality of the item. plus there is a lot more variation in the weapons with the new system.

5. well when you run out of brass on the server, whatcha gunna do? it's the perfect solution for cheap amo, and has the added effect of costing quite a bit for going cheap. it's actually pretty well thought out and balanced i feel. at least from a long-term server point of view.

7. this is already fixed in experimental build

lastly would you rather using a mod slot and losing a possible damage bonus for painting your gun, or having paint addsome damage that could have been added by some other mod. It makes sense in that by adding damage with paint, you aren't loosing damage by using paint.

[BodyBagger]

You can still play A16 if you don't like A17... just roll your game back.

[Mardoin69]

+1 everything linewalker is saying. Might add... the "paint" mod is more than just a paint mod. It's an upgrade mod that also comes with paint. I know it doesn't state that in those words but, I believe that's what the intention was.

[Midnight]

haha finally somebody who understands that A17 is an huge downgrade so true about everything
i really miss the gun parts
the mods are ok but painting you gun makes more damage or adding an mod to make spiked club ?? this totally breaks my immersion
i\t no longer fun like before AI is smarter than humans the game looks bad and runs worse than triple A games
1 and a half year for an update i am disappointed

[=Sarsante=]

I disagree, A17 was good then because of the community now it's just a newer version of A16

[Serath]

Originally posted by Annonar:

3. Am i the only one who really liked the old wellness system? death has 0 penalty now and i just eat uncooked potatoes all day.

If you are literally getting no penalty after death (you do not see the grim reaper debuff) it means your game is set to "No Killing" or "Kill Allies Only" which currently causes this bug:

"Player Killing" modes : "no killing" & "kill allies only" cause some buffs and e.g. falling damage not to work
High XP multiplier in combination with quest rewards (or console commands) can drastically increase xp needed for next level

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?109536-Alpha-17-2-Experimental-B20-bug-reporting-thread

Not exactly the latest patch notes, but I don't see it being mentioned or fixed in the newest version either.

Originally posted by Annonar:

4. The mod system is stupid and should be combined with old gun part system. It feels like in trying to make the game simpler the devs are moving back towards alpha and not to a more detailed finished produc

Explain how it's "simpler" when the mods add customization, as opposed to having no customization at all when there weren't any? The system you are comparing it to as being "better" is more of a way to "acquire" the guns than actually how they "function". Save for maybe the 2 different shotgun barrels, it didn't add much. You'll get the guns quicker to becoming fully complete now yeah, so it is more "lazy" I guess, but there's a reason for that, which I answer near the bottom of this post.

Originally posted by Annonar:

5. steel bullet casings makes ammo worthless, and 7 days is now a doom remake where ammo conservation means nothing. I liked how rare brass was, it actually made me use the shotgun/crossbow late game

If you actually bother to read the description for the steel ammo, you'll find out that the steel ammo actually makes the durability of guns go down faster. I tried this during a horde and it was A LOT faster, I actually had to make an emergency repair mid-bloodmoon. So yeah, there's a caveat to steel ammo.

And how is brass more obtainable as opposed to before? Seems just as rare as it was to me. There aren't any new items that when scrapped give brass, and it's not like there are brass veins underground.

As far as ammo itself goes, there's a reason why it drops more often now, and thus, guns themselves, as mentioned before and that's because of your gamestage, and the new dungeon system in place. As far as dungeons, it's to make them feel more rewarding, because, second, every dungeon (which is pretty much almost every single POI in the game now) has a boss encounter, and sometimes something more than a measely bow is going to do, and this can happen when you're first starting the game. Try dealing with 5 feral zeds that come crashing down the ceiling in an enclosed room on Day 1.

The gamestage makes feral zombies appear more often, even in the day time: once you read a GS of around 200 you'll find ferals quite often and everywhere you go: hardly something I want to take my time to aim at with a bow, especially when there's 6 of them at once. (Not an exaggeration.)

I think your "Doom" comparision is a huge exaggeration in terms of the need for ammo conservation. It's more classic Resident Evil IMO, (and supposedly the new RE2, so I heard) and once you gain the ability to actually craft ammo from all the lead you find, it's just as plentiful as it's always been in previous versions anyway, if your brass reserves hold up that is.

[Dead1Rollin]

You do realize that they told us ages ago that behemoths would not be making it into the game, right? While I do agree that I liked some of those same parts of 16, I don't think it will be possible to get that back, at this point, through any means other than game mods. Modders are working on some of that, though. And to those that just keep harping on "spam crafting", I don't know what rock you have been hiding under but that was all the way back in 15 and was taken out in 16. Trying to spam craft in 16 got you no where and the rest of the system had received enough improvement over 15 that no one even noticed that spam crafting was gone apparently.

[Dreddwulf88]

Just a few things I want to point out:

1. Leveling system feels a lot more like an RPG and allows diversification among team play, which will let everyone play to their strengths or mix it up a bit. This point may lean more towards your complaint about this update being geared more towards server play, but I don't think the end goal of this game is to focus primarily on single player.

2. While I agree about the mods/gun parts, I'm open to experiencing the game a bit differently then what I have been used to in order to form a better opinion on how to advance the game beyond its current state. Mods are a very cool idea, but right now I think they should incorporate them with the gun parts in order to make guns a bit rarer and less powerful early on in order to push you into crafting more common, but effective items. However, I think that means the damage of bows, crossbows, and compound bows needs to scale better from stone to iron to steel in order for them to be a more effective choice beyond the stealth approach.

3. Death already has pretty nasty penalties of losing your equipment, but making it harder to survive the same encounter in order to obtain said lost equipment seems a bit daft. Also, leveling up your wellness by skill rather than loot makes it a lot harder to become a death dealing tank before day 14 and wailing on bloodmoon hordes with a wood club.

4. Increasing the time to get to the late game lets servers and solo games become more engaging rather than rushing right to the end and getting bored quickly. I experienced this over the course of the last several major updates and I'm quite happy with having to put an honest day's work into my toon in order to actually level up and become more effective as well as plan a build in order to be successful in solo or group play.

5. Steel ammo I can kind of agree is a bit ridiculous. It definitely drops in copious amounts compared to brass ammo and really doesn't experience any major penalty in damage, though it does wear out weapons faster, which doesn't matter much since repair kits aren't that hard to make or to come by if you are an experienced player and know where to farm the appropriate components. Reducing the damage by a few more points I think would make steel ammo less effective and less of an optimal choice for spraying down hordes. Shotgun slugs definitely need some love with the new update though as they don't seem to have much if any advantage off of typical shells and the mods are skewed too deeply towards the shells for some really great benefits like the duckbill or sawed off mod.

TL:DR I feel where you are coming from, but change is going to happen. We can't whine about it (Not that I'm saying you are), but we can coherently explain why certain features are good/bad/ugly in order to shape the game towards a brighter future. It's better to do a deeper dive analysis into changes and previous updates rather than just point out the faults without much of an offering of solution.

[MysticFist DGS]

Originally posted by Annonar:

I know its a long list, but if you got a minute please hear me out and leave a comment :)



Why i still play 1.6 over 1.7
1. Late game took more time to get to: this whole update seems geared towards servers that only go to day 300-700 (2-4 weeks) not servers that I play on that go to 1000-3000+ days.

2. skill tree is much more boring/stupid compared to 1.6. i liked the skyrim system where the more you used a skill the better it got

3. Am i the only one who really liked the old wellness system? death has 0 penalty now and i just eat uncooked potatoes all day.

4. The mod system is stupid and should be combined with old gun part system. It feels like in trying to make the game simpler the devs are moving back towards alpha and not to a more detailed finished produc

5. steel bullet casings makes ammo worthless, and 7 days is now a doom remake where ammo conservation means nothing. I liked how rare brass was, it actually made me use the shotgun/crossbow late game

6. Vehicles that were supposed to be the saving grace of 1.7 are more buggy than minibikes Now you can get your vehicle buried underground AND lose your entire tool belt! progress!!

7. Another thing promised in 1.7 was behemoths zombies right? theyre still MIA so i still just build a raised reinforced wooden cage with horizontal bars across the front and i can beat the day 7 horde with a wooden club.



TL/DR: 1.7 feels so boring. with gun crafting dumbed down to the 1st grade level, late game purple firearms/vehicles accessible by day 14, and all reason to keep playing on the same server for more than 15 hours removed from the game.

not to mention...... IF I PAINT DA GUN RED IT GETS MOR HURTY!! WAGGHHH - 1.7 dev logic

I totaly agree. I have the feeling they are going backwards instead of making progress.
I like the graphics and how they added some stuff but in general i prefered the previous version.
Anyway i guess they are also just trying to see what is best.
I only hope they will read the posts and put some old stuff back in.

For the rest i am happy to see that they still work on it and come with new stuff.
I just hope to see a lot more soon and not having to wait for months :)

[Senzoba]

Originally posted by linewalker:

I think you mean a16 and a17. not 1.6 and 1.7

1. they changed this when they went to gamestages. Day count on server means not a lot now.

2. Your opinion. Its better than spam crafting 5000 stone axes to git gud.

3. the current penalty is a lot better than the wellness system. that had less impact from death than the current one. with the current one it impacts some of your perks and your ability to use them.

4. personally if feels better to be able to choose my mods than just relying on the quality of the item. plus there is a lot more variation in the weapons with the new system.

5. well when you run out of brass on the server, whatcha gunna do? it's the perfect solution for cheap amo, and has the added effect of costing quite a bit for going cheap. it's actually pretty well thought out and balanced i feel. at least from a long-term server point of view.

7. this is already fixed in experimental build

lastly would you rather using a mod slot and losing a possible damage bonus for painting your gun, or having paint addsome damage that could have been added by some other mod. It makes sense in that by adding damage with paint, you aren't loosing damage by using paint.

This person pretty much read my mind on what I was gonna say

["Hard Tack" Tom]

Originally posted by 🐍:

Originally posted by Annonar:

not to mention...... IF I PAINT DA GUN RED IT GETS MOR HURTY!! WAGGHHH - 1.7 dev logic

OP acting like a child at the end is just sad though, we can have civil discussions without the HURR DURR DEVZ STOOPID comments.

It was an ork reference from Warhammer 40,000k... But if you're jumping straight to debasement as your way to show your disagreement with me, then you never had anything worthwhile to contribute to this discussion anyway.

["Hard Tack" Tom]

Originally posted by Serath:

.

I see what you're saying about the grim reaper debuff, death does have a penalty which i did forget about, my bad laddy. but there's still no incentive to bother cooking and eating quote on quote "good food" cause there's no wellness anymore. Maybe they could incorporate wellness in another form that doesn't tie directly to your max hp/stamina but i still ate nothing but potatoes in a17.

and the gun mods are nice, i wasnt saying we should get rid of them, but bring back the old gun parts that you can only get through scavenging!

And i know steel ammo degrades your gun quicker but who cares? One shale run from the desert and cloth from a tent makes enough materials for hundreds of repair kits, and with intelect maxed your AK repairs in <2 seconds, not really an emergency repair so steel bullets are still the go-to for ammo

["Hard Tack" Tom]

Originally posted by Dreddwulf88:

Just a few things I want to point out:

1. Leveling system feels a lot more like an RPG and allows diversification among team play, which will let everyone play to their strengths or mix it up a bit. This point may lean more towards your complaint about this update being geared more towards server play, but I don't think the end goal of this game is to focus primarily on single player.

TL:DR I feel where you are coming from, but change is going to happen. We can't whine about it (Not that I'm saying you are), but we can coherently explain why certain features are good/bad/ugly in order to shape the game towards a brighter future. It's better to do a deeper dive analysis into changes and previous updates rather than just point out the faults without much of an offering of solution.

You are right about the new skill system in that it does allow people to build what they want to, (like a rifleman could start training AK skills before he gets his AK) but even then, there still is going to be the one player on a team who is hoe'd over and has to spend his first 50-60 levels going up the intelect tree while the rest of his team gets to stat in to other perks like max hp or more stamina

And yeah i know change will happen, but it they changed some of the best things in my opinion. things like how making bullets much less rare, and guns are now much easier to come by. IMO it makes the early game much shorter and the late game combat much more monotone.

[Serath]

Originally posted by Annonar:

And i know steel ammo degrades your gun quicker but who cares? One shale run from the desert and cloth from a tent makes enough materials for hundreds of repair kits, and with intelect maxed your AK repairs in <2 seconds, not really an emergency repair so steel bullets are still the go-to for ammo

I'll admit, after talking about this I braved up and started to use it more often. While I still would never use it on a low level gun and or on horde night (both being the case in the example I provided before about making an emergency repair) a higher level, 5 or 6, it doesn't seem that bad. The challenge though, is getting enough glue for the duct tape to support you going really trigger happy.

["Hard Tack" Tom]

Originally posted by MysticFist DGS:

I totaly agree. I have the feeling they are going backwards instead of making progress.
I like the graphics and how they added some stuff but in general i prefered the previous version.
Anyway i guess they are also just trying to see what is best.
I only hope they will read the posts and put some old stuff back in.

For the rest i am happy to see that they still work on it and come with new stuff.
I just hope to see a lot more soon and not having to wait for months :)

Glad to know I'm not alone! :)

And yeah I'm not against the new stuff they're trying like gun mods, they just removed a lot of old stuff that made 7 days more challenging/unique!

I just also kinda miss the days in A16 when you FINALLY pieced together your purple sniper after loads of dangerous (and usually deadly in my case) looting raids and nut harder than Mr Planter in a peanut factory.