Barbed Wire

[ShadyAftermath]

Is this for real? Alpha 18 and you can no longer craft barbed wire ? only in creativ? come on this ♥♥♥♥ was helpfull why did they took it out ?

[Chunk Norris ☯]

Silly rabbit. Do you think the Devs want you to have fun? RIP Barbed wire. Rest in peace.

[Trindalas]

There’s a mod that lets you pick it up. 😁

[Shurenai]

The Barbed Wire you're thinking about was usable in an exploitative way, by sticking it to walls sideways, zombies or players walking past would be slowed without actually damaging the barbed wire.. So it was removed from the players crafting pool.

You can still craft Barbed Wire Fence, which functionally performs the exact same way- Only it can't be used in that exploitative manner.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

The Barbed Wire you're thinking about was usable in an exploitative way, by sticking it to walls sideways, zombies or players walking past would be slowed without actually damaging the barbed wire.. So it was removed from the players crafting pool.

You can still craft Barbed Wire Fence, which functionally performs the exact same way- Only it can't be used in that exploitative manner.

Is that how people used it? tsk tsk...

It was better as flooring. You'd go into a POI before the BM and knock out the floor of an upper level. Then replace it all with double thick barbed wires. If the floor took enough damage to break, the fell to the second layer. That breaks and they just go around the hold until they all break (if possible even). You just shoot through it to kill them on the floor below and on the wire above.

Mostly though, I liked it as decoration. To the XML!

[↯Zindy⛦]

should have been *fixed* instead of removed, it would look better on many basebuilds

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by Zindai:

should have been *fixed* instead of removed, it would look better on many basebuilds

Unfortunately there isn't really a 'fix' that players would appreciate. It's a block; Like just about everything else in the game. In order to apply an effect to it, it must then basically affect the whole blocks worth of space.

So, the 'fix' would be to A: Remove the effect from the barbed wire, Which would upset people. Or B: Make it more of an entity than a block, like a bedroll or crafting station, or turrets or bladetraps....Which brings it's own host of problems, like performance when used in great numbers as it is likely to be used.

It wasn't entirely Removed from the game; It was removed from player access while they ponder solutions. It's still in creative; It's also still accessible with a simple little modlet to make it craftable again.

[Maddermax]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Originally posted by Zindai:

should have been *fixed* instead of removed, it would look better on many basebuilds

Unfortunately there isn't really a 'fix' that players would appreciate. It's a block; Like just about everything else in the game. In order to apply an effect to it, it must then basically affect the whole blocks worth of space.

So, the 'fix' would be to A: Remove the effect from the barbed wire, Which would upset people. Or B: Make it more of an entity than a block, like a bedroll or crafting station, or turrets or bladetraps....Which brings it's own host of problems, like performance when used in great numbers as it is likely to be used.

It wasn't entirely Removed from the game; It was removed from player access while they ponder solutions. It's still in creative; It's also still accessible with a simple little modlet to make it craftable again.

It would be easier just to have it take damage when applying the slowing effect rather than when it causes damage. That would even it out pretty well. I can see it would be fairly low priority though, as the barbed wire available functions perfectly well for everything, other than aesthetics.

Also, if anyone wants permanent barbed wire again, it’s still possible to do it by laying garage doors in the flat open position over the top of it - but that’s a lot more tricky to exploit, and will probably be patched out at some point too.

[CellNav]

The barbed wire (as an edge placement) is best removed and replaced with concertina wire. If the concertina wire can be wide enough (say 80 cm) then it can still be placed as an edge block but there's a smaller gap allowing for collision to occur with the wire if an entity tried to squeeze through the gap.

Also, any POI's sporting the current fence would just get replaced without any aesthetic damage except it might be on the wrong side of the chain link fence ... :P

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by Maddermax:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Unfortunately there isn't really a 'fix' that players would appreciate. It's a block; Like just about everything else in the game. In order to apply an effect to it, it must then basically affect the whole blocks worth of space.

So, the 'fix' would be to A: Remove the effect from the barbed wire, Which would upset people. Or B: Make it more of an entity than a block, like a bedroll or crafting station, or turrets or bladetraps....Which brings it's own host of problems, like performance when used in great numbers as it is likely to be used.

It wasn't entirely Removed from the game; It was removed from player access while they ponder solutions. It's still in creative; It's also still accessible with a simple little modlet to make it craftable again.

It would be easier just to have it take damage when applying the slowing effect rather than when it causes damage. That would even it out pretty well. I can see it would be fairly low priority though, as the barbed wire available functions perfectly well for everything, other than aesthetics.

Also, if anyone wants permanent barbed wire again, it’s still possible to do it by laying garage doors in the flat open position over the top of it - but that’s a lot more tricky to exploit, and will probably be patched out at some point too.

Seems logical, but, The durability goes when damage is done because that is when the player or zombies hitbox intersects the actual hitbox of the barbed wire.

I'm not sure it's possible to detect the application of slow as an event for durability reduction due to that- It's basically just a toggled state of debuff for the entire blockspace- Either it slows, or it doesnt. Without the hitbox trigger, it may be a bit iffy.

That is to say, When you walk into the space, you're walking into blockspace that has the slowing effect of water, basically. But when you intersect the hitbox, you take damage, and it takes durability loss, like a spike does. In the former case, It's a world level event, You're only slowed because your coordinates coincide with a place the positional tracker says should reduce your speed. In the latter, It's a block level event; You intersect the hitbox, and the event the block is programmed to trigger goes off.

At least, this is my rough understanding of how it functions. It might seem like an obvious fix to just make the slow cause it damage..but..as I said, I don't think it's possible, or rather, feasible, to make A block check for world level events like that, as it'd likely require writing it in as a possibility for all 'blocks' and then having to tune everything for performance and all that nonsense.

[Kara]

Yeah it really really stinks. I felt like uninstalling just a couple days ago. I was on day 55 and almost finished with a base I had in mind specifically with barbed wire. When I tried to craft it, it wasn't there...When will devs learn, you can't force people to play the game the way YOU want us to play it. That is a losing battle every time.

And no I am not going to use the little dinky barricades because they do not "work exactly the same". Building a huge concrete block base with a sea of spikes around it and using 1K bullets per horde is boring. We want options to do more. We want to be rewarded for being creative, not punished. It's a sandbox game for crying out loud lol! here is a great idea. Why don't they take the voxels away from us while they are at it lol.

[Maddermax]

Originally posted by Kara:

Yeah it really really stinks. I felt like uninstalling just a couple days ago. I was on day 55 and almost finished with a base I had in mind specifically with barbed wire. When I tried to craft it, it wasn't there...When will devs learn, you can't force people to play the game the way YOU want us to play it. That is a losing battle every time.

And no I am not going to use the little dinky barricades because they do not "work exactly the same". Building a huge concrete block base with a sea of spikes around it and using 1K bullets per horde is boring. We want options to do more. We want to be rewarded for being creative, not punished. It's a sandbox game for crying out loud lol! here is a great idea. Why don't they take the voxels away from us while they are at it lol.

So just turn on creative mode and put it in. If you want it fairly, just discard the right amount of materials, and done. Or install a modlet that reactivates it. Fairly easy to do really. They took it out as it wasn’t functioning how they wanted it to function, but as with all things, they encourage you to mod it if there’s things you wanted changed. Take advantage of it now, and eventually they’ll rework it back into the game.

[Kara]

Originally posted by Maddermax:

Originally posted by Kara:

Yeah it really really stinks. I felt like uninstalling just a couple days ago. I was on day 55 and almost finished with a base I had in mind specifically with barbed wire. When I tried to craft it, it wasn't there...When will devs learn, you can't force people to play the game the way YOU want us to play it. That is a losing battle every time.

And no I am not going to use the little dinky barricades because they do not "work exactly the same". Building a huge concrete block base with a sea of spikes around it and using 1K bullets per horde is boring. We want options to do more. We want to be rewarded for being creative, not punished. It's a sandbox game for crying out loud lol! here is a great idea. Why don't they take the voxels away from us while they are at it lol.

So just turn on creative mode and put it in. If you want it fairly, just discard the right amount of materials, and done. Or install a modlet that reactivates it. Fairly easy to do really. They took it out as it wasn’t functioning how they wanted it to function, but as with all things, they encourage you to mod it if there’s things you wanted changed. Take advantage of it now, and eventually they’ll rework it back into the game.

If I understand you correctly why would they eventually rework it back into the game if I am modding it into my game? If I turn on creative mode and give myself a stack of them, how will I know how much mats it costs lol. Where do they encourage people to mod things back in that they take out? That would be silly. It's pretty discouraging to go spend my time learning how to mod things back into the game just so I can play it the way it is supposed to be. Not to mention this disables achievements. They took it out because SOME people were using it in a way the devs did not approve. I wonder what things I do in the game that devs would not approve of >_>

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by Kara:

Yeah it really really stinks. I felt like uninstalling just a couple days ago. I was on day 55 and almost finished with a base I had in mind specifically with barbed wire. When I tried to craft it, it wasn't there...When will devs learn, you can't force people to play the game the way YOU want us to play it. That is a losing battle every time.

And no I am not going to use the little dinky barricades because they do not "work exactly the same". Building a huge concrete block base with a sea of spikes around it and using 1K bullets per horde is boring. We want options to do more. We want to be rewarded for being creative, not punished. It's a sandbox game for crying out loud lol! here is a great idea. Why don't they take the voxels away from us while they are at it lol.

I'm curious; Aside from the aesthetics, and the exploitable behavior, How does the barbed wire fence not function the same as the barbed wire? It can be stuck on the side of walls, Laid along the ground to slow zombies, pretty sure it can be stuck on ceilings too.. It does the same amount of damage, the same amount of slow, the same amount of durability and can be stacked on itself.

The only meaningful difference between the two that I am personally aware of is that one can be exploited in a number of ways already covered in this thread, and the other can't...And how it looks, of course, which in and of itself causes no functional difference in the slow area; Only in the hitbox for causing damage and durability loss.

What do you perceive, or have proof of, being a difference in how the barbed wire fence functions as compared to Barbed Wire?

Edit:

Originally posted by Kara:

They took it out because SOME people were using it in a way the devs did not approve. I wonder what things I do in the game that devs would not approve of >_>

No... They took it out because it Can be used in highly exploitable ways- It wasn't because any specific people, or amount of people, were using it that way. It's that it can be used that way at all.

They are game devs- They're Supposed to fix exploits in their game while its in development. It's not about 'what they approve of', at least in this case. It is a provable case of pretty clearly unintended behavior.

Edit 2:

Originally posted by Kara:

If I turn on creative mode and give myself a stack of them, how will I know how much mats it costs lol.

Just spend the mats on an equivalent amount of barbed wire fence, Trade it 1:1. Or just use the old recipe: 15 iron per.

[_Riven]

It was just too over powered.
You could double up a hallway with barbed wire on both sides to effectively stop a zombie horde in its tracks and just take them out at your pleasure.

[RobbEJay]

The big difference between the barbed wire sheets and fence is that they don't effect the zombies' pathing the same way. Fences are a full size block and as such zombies see them as an obstacle. The sheets on the other hand are thin and flat, and unless placed vertically don't count as an obstacle.

That's why players were putting them on walls, ceilings, and floors. You could have floor to ceiling barbed wire and to the the zombies it might as well be empty. So that with fence and they may avoid it entirely.

It wasn't that alone that was the reason for being considered an exploit, the actual exploit involved using 1/4 poles or similar blocks to prevent zombies from being able to touch them, allowing them to last practically forever.

Its debatable wether it was 'fixed' due to being used in ways the devs don't approve, as the two aren't mutually exclusive. The exploit did undermine the dev's rule against there being 'one and done' defenses, so it did have something to do with what they do or don't want players to be able to do, just as hiding underground or infinite zombie loop did/does. Its just not exclusively because "you're playing the game wrong". More like this is considered a foul.