Alpha 17 melee

[Taien]

Will melee combat be anything besides useless finally in this new version?

I don't like using the guns because the game already has FPS issues, so using a gun is difficult due to the choppiness of the game. I prefer melee anyway as it's more realistic to zombie situations.

The melee in the game's current build is completely useless. I have been doing a run of this game on my stream and I'm up to 133 deaths due to the impossible and broken melee in this game.

Here are the main reasons melee is a death sentence in this game:
-Wolves and dogs are impossible to escape from and kill you in about 1 second since they can attack 3 times per second. Multiple high-quality knife hits to the head don't kill them (stupid).
-Getting stunned (completely based on RNG) is a death sentence because you move so slowly that the zombie has plenty of time to land 3 more hits and kill you.
-The collision box for zombie attacks is completely unrealistic - they can reach you from up to 8 feet away with their those swinging arm attacks. Pretty sure their arms aren't 8 feet long.
-Melee damage is way too low. It takes four-six knife hits to the head to kill a zombie. As long as I see them coming (in the daytime) this isn't too much of an issue, but it's really unrealistic in zombie apocalypse terms. Zombies can't survive once their brain is destroyed, so any knife hit to the head should be an instant kill.
-Half the time, zombies don't respond at all to hits, so they get a free attack on you because their stagger animation didn't trigger. Please fix this.

Once these things are fixed, melee will actually have a use in the game other than racking up hundreds of deaths for you.

I've seen the video and the new "power attacks" so as long as these are guaranteed to stagger or knock down a zombie, it'll probably help a fair amount. But please adjust the melee damage. It's stupid to me that a fire axe deals less damage to a zombie head than a knife.

[Chosen [Blood]]

you should see me wreck zombies with the sledgehammer, has always been my favorite

[Brian9824]

Melee in the game is incredible. Routinely play on hardest difficulty and pretty much ALL my kills are melee. Spiked club is my weapon of choice. I melee dogs, radiated cops, etc. Sounds like you really don't know what your doing or not bothering to wear any armor if your dying that much.

Once you get decent weapons normal zombies die in 1-2 hits at most to the head, especially if you bother to take the skills for your weapon.

Also make sure to keep beer, painkillers, or other sources on tool bar that protect you from stun effect.

[DthBlayde]

Everything you described sounds like latency issues online. There's people here who regularly go sledgehammer and machete happy even on Horde nights. Hell, even a simple wooden club can stagger and knock down; though I don't recommend using them unless desperation sets in. Swing, stagger, haul ass.

As for knives? need to have their skill and the perks built up to be really viable combat tools in my opinion. Like the axe , they're meant more to be a harvesting tool than a combat weapon.

3 attacks per second and insta kills in one hit on dogs and wolves? Their attack animations alone take longer than that. And they can be outrun, just use the terrain and obstacles to your advantage. Dire wolves... maaaaaybe I can see them ripping us apart quickly. I tend to avoid them. And are you armored at all? Even unarmored , a single dog would have to hit you about 5 times, and any sort of strike will stun and interrupt them.

[BubblestationCPH]

Defo looks like you have to rethink your strats. 133 deaths?? and you say you cant outrun the wolves? how about sprint? or use of terrain? or audiocues?(admittedly, those can be wonky)

Stuns can be countered. But im with you if you dsay you dont use em 24//7 and its uncommon to have one rdy at all times. Again.. sprint is your friend. dont get stunned. use sledgehammer if you need more range and dmg.

I dont have any issues with hitboxes in general. Stuttering, allignment issues with the crosshairs, and even a rare arrow that pass throug a zombiehead do happen. But i cant follow you on 8ft arms and hits that dont connect. Are you playing solo or highping servers?

[pApA^LeGBa]

While i agree that the dog/wolvepacks can catch you on the wrong toe, it is not that bad. (Unless they get you on day 2, F that)

133 deaths sounds like a clear case of "git gud". Sorry. Note that you don´t tell us if you play with mods or wich difficulty, so i assume it´s vanilla and default. Then you really need to "git gud"

Wolves and dogs do not attack 3 times per second. And a stun is nowhere near a guaranteed death.

To answer your very first question about melee in A17: I am sorry my crystal globe is not working right now.

[Taien]

I'll get you guys about 20 clips from my next 7 Days stream since all I'm seeing here is "I don't believe you" or the typical troll response of "you're not doing it right." I'm wearing the best stuff I've found in terms of damage protection and my knife is 250 quality with level 3 knife skill. I could see it possibly being latency.

Vanilla with level 5 difficulty. Health generally around 90 because no food ever really but Health Nut skill partially trained. My ping on the server I'm on is generally about 100-120.

Wolves definitely kill in two to three hits.

In fact I'll go pull some clips from last time I played it right now.

[Taien]

https://clips.twitch.tv/FurtiveStupidAxePeoplesChamp
https://clips.twitch.tv/PrettyClearPrariedogRiPepperonis
https://clips.twitch.tv/TenderFlirtyIcecreamFloof

Just these three bad ones from the last stream, not too bad actually, usually it's more lol

[BubblestationCPH]

Originally posted by twitch.tv/TaienV:

https://clips.twitch.tv/FurtiveStupidAxePeoplesChamp
https://clips.twitch.tv/PrettyClearPrariedogRiPepperonis
https://clips.twitch.tv/TenderFlirtyIcecreamFloof

Just these three bad ones from the last stream, not too bad actually, usually it's more lol

vid 1 Dood.. you can see the arm swing on the worker and youre not 8ft away. I agree, youre not within reach of a hit had it come from a real person, but the hitboxes here is clearly very close to eachother. And why do you even fight with that low healh

vid2.. bleedout.. nuff said

3rd vid.cant see whats happening

sry dood. its you

edit< 3rd vid. 70 hp lost from first hit, the second lands just after he starts the animation. that might be a bit wonky, but nothing game breaking tbh.. the real issue is the 70 hp lost pr hit

get armor dood. and get some range, questionmark.. a club is better, or sledgehammer even more so

[Lerch Addams]

Sorry but i haven't seen any videos.

What level are your melee skills?
What level are the weapons you are using?

[Spider]

I never understood why people think Melee is broken. I never use guns, and I rarely die at all. Hit, backpedal, hit, backpedal. Practice. That's all. Practice using melee weapons. From 1-100 skill doesn't matter. It's easy regardless.

[Bob]

We already know melee is going to be a lot less effective in a17 thanks to zombies being able to attack on the move. Even if they pumped the damage up, it isn't going to help much.

If you feel it is bad now, then you are going to hate it in the update.

[Spider]

Originally posted by Bob:

We already know melee is going to be a lot less effective in a17 thanks to zombies being able to attack on the move. Even if they pumped the damage up, it isn't going to help much.

If you feel it is bad now, then you are going to hate it in the update.

This. I feel it will just take a bit of strategy adjustment and it will once again be as simple as it is now.

[Bob]

Originally posted by Spider:

Originally posted by Bob:

We already know melee is going to be a lot less effective in a17 thanks to zombies being able to attack on the move. Even if they pumped the damage up, it isn't going to help much.

If you feel it is bad now, then you are going to hate it in the update.

This. I feel it will just take a bit of strategy adjustment and it will once again be as simple as it is now.

It isn't so much about adjustment. You simply wont be killing at the same speed you are in 16 due to the new tactic requiring you to essentially wait for the rush attack (which eats time) and then retaliate, or sneak up to them and start the fight yourself (which of course takes more time).

I am sure in the very late game when you can take more hits, have better stam regen, better regen options and higher quality melee weapons that you will still be able to handle basic situations in melee range like you could before. Though I imagine more than 2 zombies at a time will be hellish to deal with in certain situations (especially indoors).

Also keep in mind the damage per hit is going to be lower/less effective unless you use the charged hit, which requires reasonably decent timing.

[Avanar]

Originally posted by twitch.tv/TaienV:

I'll get you guys about 20 clips from my next 7 Days stream since all I'm seeing here is "I don't believe you" or the typical troll response of "you're not doing it right." I'm wearing the best stuff I've found in terms of damage protection and my knife is 250 quality with level 3 knife skill. I could see it possibly being latency.

Vanilla with level 5 difficulty. Health generally around 90 because no food ever really but Health Nut skill partially trained. My ping on the server I'm on is generally about 100-120.

Wolves definitely kill in two to three hits.

In fact I'll go pull some clips from last time I played it right now.

Instead of calling others troll, why don't you ask yourself what they do different to you?

You have your situation and you have several others that get along fine.

Means you have to understand what they do and how to get the same result.

I do a break currently until a17. But i even prefer melee.
It's boring to kill from a distance. I like to be in the middle of a fight.

Spiked club, machete, etc are a good choice to go.
Of course you can't just stand still and wildly click your mouse button. Be creative, run, jump, keep moving, dance and use environment to get an advantage.

Then it will work for you as well.

[Red Eagle LXIX]

Originally posted by twitch.tv/TaienV:

Will melee combat be anything besides useless finally in this new version?

I don't like using the guns because the game already has FPS issues, so using a gun is difficult due to the choppiness of the game. I prefer melee anyway as it's more realistic to zombie situations.

The melee in the game's current build is completely useless. I have been doing a run of this game on my stream and I'm up to 133 deaths due to the impossible and broken melee in this game.

Melee works for me. Use it and the bow only most of the time.

Originally posted by twitch.tv/TaienV:

Here are the main reasons melee is a death sentence in this game:
-Wolves and dogs are impossible to escape from and kill you in about 1 second since they can attack 3 times per second. Multiple high-quality knife hits to the head don't kill them (stupid).

Takes practice, but dogs and wolves can be killed. Although I prefer not to melee them if possible instead using arrows for these foes.

Originally posted by twitch.tv/TaienV:

-Getting stunned (completely based on RNG) is a death sentence because you move so slowly that the zombie has plenty of time to land 3 more hits and kill you.

Use the proper tools for the job. There are ways to avoid getting stunned such as beer. If you choose to ignore the survival tools and methods available, then yes, things will be harder.

Originally posted by twitch.tv/TaienV:

-The collision box for zombie attacks is completely unrealistic - they can reach you from up to 8 feet away with their those swinging arm attacks. Pretty sure their arms aren't 8 feet long.

Common complaint from online play with network delays, or play from server/systems not able to handle the load. Build yourself a bedrock holding cell in SP and you can test all the ranges.

Originally posted by twitch.tv/TaienV:

-Melee damage is way too low. It takes four-six knife hits to the head to kill a zombie. As long as I see them coming (in the daytime) this isn't too much of an issue, but it's really unrealistic in zombie apocalypse terms. Zombies can't survive once their brain is destroyed, so any knife hit to the head should be an instant kill.

Which zombie lore do you speak? Does that zombie lore pertain to the universe of 7DTD? How? Where can one see that linkage? I was under the impression 7DTD comes with and has it's own lore.

Originally posted by twitch.tv/TaienV:

-Half the time, zombies don't respond at all to hits, so they get a free attack on you because their stagger animation didn't trigger. Please fix this.

Never had this happen in SP. Maybe it is a related issue to the server/networking issue causing the long reach you've experienced.

Originally posted by twitch.tv/TaienV:

Once these things are fixed, melee will actually have a use in the game other than racking up hundreds of deaths for you.

Have you evaluated these issues in SP on machine running well enough to support 30-60 fps depending on number of zeds? This is possible with a machine nearly 8 years old and decent videocard. My own rig doesn't start to slow till around 50 zeds onscreen and I've posted the screenshots.

Originally posted by twitch.tv/TaienV:

I've seen the video and the new "power attacks" so as long as these are guaranteed to stagger or knock down a zombie, it'll probably help a fair amount. But please adjust the melee damage. It's stupid to me that a fire axe deals less damage to a zombie head than a knife.

Balance is always being adjusted, but I would not expect a balance polish pass till all features are in and complete. As to the choices then made, if you don't agree, the values are rather simple to adjust.

EDIT: Note: to be clear, I know the game itself may have some networking issues and server to client animation delays that exacerbate any connection or server slowness. I am not exclusively blaming the network or server. Just stating that often the issues described for those items can be corrected by playing SP, or a different server.