No toggle sprint

[Captain Sternn]

My hand is literally cramped up over this game from hold w and shift, add toggle sprint. Toggle sprint is when you press shift NOT HOLD and you will keep sprinting as long as you are holding w

[Shame on you]

Originally posted by CatPerson:

Maybe remapping Jump key - something used less often - to something else and using the big fat spacebar for sprinting would be easier for some?

...although of course if one has physical ailments (like I do) then it all depends on what digits are affected. Dunno.

Sure its far better when tousands of players remap the keys and spend hours to get used to it, instead that one dev spend 15 Minutes to add something every serious game has.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by pApA^LeGBa:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

People with issues in their fingers would..probably be remapping their keys? Rebind shift to say, F, something that can be held comfortably; Or Q which is unused unless you use debug mode, and then you can press W and Q with the same finger, Or any number of other potential rebindings.

Why is shift toggle a problem? I honestly think it´s something every game should have as QoL. It doesn´t give anyone an unfair advantage, you don´t have to use it if you don´t like it.
The only reason to not give us that option is either that´s it´s technically not possible or the devs don´t give a flying F.

I mean we can choose if we have to hold RMB for aiming or not. Why not give us a choice with shift either?

And no, those aren´t solutions. Q+W is a weird hand position and F means no moving right while sprinting.

QW is a single finger, Literally. Shift your W finger like 1-2mm left.. Way more comfortable than contorting your pinky to hold shift.

And ASDF is the default keyboard position for your left hand when typing- Move your S finger to W, and now you've got a comfortable sprint and still retain left/right control.

And in either case, Both of those were Example rebindings that i thought of on the spot that would work for me and people with hands like mine. Maybe they won't perfectly work for you- But there is a rebinding somewhere that will. Similarly; My point was that anyone who has particularly fragile hands that they NEED toggle sprint is probably rebinding sprint to something besides shift anyway because it's uncomfortable and out of the way.


Overall, I don't have anything particularly against the addition of toggle sprint- But I think it's not necessary, And I think it's going to get people killed a lot more than it's going to save them time.

When holding sprint, Players tend to be very aware of how long they've been holding it, and are paying attention to their stamina, etc, etc- But when you give players a toggle, They tend to forget the function has a cost as they auto-pilot themselves to the location.. A cost that will sooner than later leave them with no stamina at a bad time.

[pApA^LeGBa]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Originally posted by pApA^LeGBa:

Why is shift toggle a problem? I honestly think it´s something every game should have as QoL. It doesn´t give anyone an unfair advantage, you don´t have to use it if you don´t like it.
The only reason to not give us that option is either that´s it´s technically not possible or the devs don´t give a flying F.

I mean we can choose if we have to hold RMB for aiming or not. Why not give us a choice with shift either?

And no, those aren´t solutions. Q+W is a weird hand position and F means no moving right while sprinting.

QW is a single finger, Literally. Shift your W finger like 1-2mm left.. Way more comfortable than contorting your pinky to hold shift.

And ASDF is the default keyboard position for your left hand when typing- Move your S finger to W, and now you've got a comfortable sprint and still retain left/right control.

And in either case, Both of those were Example rebindings that i thought of on the spot that would work for me and people with hands like mine. Maybe they won't perfectly work for you- But there is a rebinding somewhere that will. Similarly; My point was that anyone who has particularly fragile hands that they NEED toggle sprint is probably rebinding sprint to something besides shift anyway because it's uncomfortable and out of the way.


Overall, I don't have anything particularly against the addition of toggle sprint- But I think it's not necessary, And I think it's going to get people killed a lot more than it's going to save them time.

When holding sprint, Players tend to be very aware of how long they've been holding it, and are paying attention to their stamina, etc, etc- But when you give players a toggle, They tend to forget the function has a cost as they auto-pilot themselves to the location.. A cost that will sooner than later leave them with no stamina at a bad time.

My S+W are the same finger. Are you telling me you play with the standard typing position?

i´d say 99% of PC gamers on keyboard use middlefinger for S+W, ring finger for A and index finger for D. Thumb for the space bar and the pinky for shift.

Also getting used to that after 30 years of gaming is something i don´t wanna go trough. I am pretty sure adding toggle shift is pretty easy for the devs. I would need like half a year of getting used to a new layout. That i had to use in all games then. Where F or Q might be used for something important.

Pressing two buttons at once is uncomfortable af.

It´s a QoL thing, i don´t get why you would make up arguments against that tbh. There is a lot of games with stamina that have it. No on ever complained about dying because of it.

[CatPerson]

^ So using WASD is like giving a game the middle finger all the time?

....sorry. *runs away really fast*

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by pApA^LeGBa:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

QW is a single finger, Literally. Shift your W finger like 1-2mm left.. Way more comfortable than contorting your pinky to hold shift.

And ASDF is the default keyboard position for your left hand when typing- Move your S finger to W, and now you've got a comfortable sprint and still retain left/right control.

And in either case, Both of those were Example rebindings that i thought of on the spot that would work for me and people with hands like mine. Maybe they won't perfectly work for you- But there is a rebinding somewhere that will. Similarly; My point was that anyone who has particularly fragile hands that they NEED toggle sprint is probably rebinding sprint to something besides shift anyway because it's uncomfortable and out of the way.


Overall, I don't have anything particularly against the addition of toggle sprint- But I think it's not necessary, And I think it's going to get people killed a lot more than it's going to save them time.

When holding sprint, Players tend to be very aware of how long they've been holding it, and are paying attention to their stamina, etc, etc- But when you give players a toggle, They tend to forget the function has a cost as they auto-pilot themselves to the location.. A cost that will sooner than later leave them with no stamina at a bad time.

My S+W are the same finger. Are you telling me you play with the standard typing position?

i´d say 99% of PC gamers on keyboard use middlefinger for S+W, ring finger for A and index finger for D. Thumb for the space bar and the pinky for shift.

Also getting used to that after 30 years of gaming is something i don´t wanna go trough. I am pretty sure adding toggle shift is pretty easy for the devs. I would need like half a year of getting used to a new layout. That i had to use in all games then. Where F or Q might be used for something important.

Pressing two buttons at once is uncomfortable af.

It´s a QoL thing, i don´t get why you would make up arguments against that tbh. There is a lot of games with stamina that have it. No on ever complained about dying because of it.

*Sighs* Again, They were E X A M P L E S. No, I do not play with ASDF typing position- But it was a quick example I could think of that -I- personally could adjust to in a matter of hours or days. ASDF was a quick example of a very comfortable position that would give me access to WASD and Sprint without contorting my hand or flexing it uncomfortably. Even if you keep your hands in traditional WASD you can still hit F comfortably, and as for 'moving right' in that situation....use yer mouse yo. My point in entirety is that someone with issues holding shift is likely also going to have issues pressing it in the first place, necessitating them to rebind their keys to something like F for sprint, or Q for sprint.


As to the last, You might note, that in almost every game that has a sprint function and a stamina meter...You being allowed to attack or not isn't tied to that same meter. So yeah, For the most part, Noone complains about dying because of it since when they run out of stamina and get caught up in whatever death is there, they can still attack and defend themselves.

That's not how it is in 7DTD. Aiming, swinging, sprinting, jumping, It's all on your stamina meter. The only other game I can think of off the top of my head that has attacks also bound to the same meter and sprint is Skyrim- And wouldn't you know it, Also doesn't have a toggle sprint. (Although it DOES have an auto run/walk, in fairness.)


And again; I do not have a particular stake in whether it gets implemented or not- I'm simply providing counterpoints and my opinion. If it gets added, cool, if not, also cool. But it's my opinion that it's an unnecessary addition that is just going to cause trouble, the need for which is remedied for the few users it's a major problem for by rebinding.

[Serath]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

My point in entirety is that someone with issues holding shift is likely also going to have issues pressing it in the first place, necessitating them to rebind their keys to something like F for sprint, or Q for sprint.

I don't mind holding shift to run. What I do mind is holding it down for 30 minute intervals because I'm traveling long distances. (This applies to vehicles too; I've never heard of holding down a run button to make a car go faster. I know controallbe acceleration only works with triggers and not with "all or nothing" keyboard and mouse buttons, so why are gears not a thing?) Holding sprint seems a lot more applicable to more twitch/reflex games with small maps. Not entire mini MMO sized worlds reaching 10+KM in all directions.

Originally posted by Shurenai:

When holding sprint, Players tend to be very aware of how long they've been holding it, and are paying attention to their stamina, etc, etc- But when you give players a toggle, They tend to forget the function has a cost as they auto-pilot themselves to the location.. A cost that will sooner than later leave them with no stamina at a bad time.

I didn't read the whole thread, but I don't think people are asking for an "always run" button, the kind of function commonly found in old school action shooters like Doom and Quake. It makes more sense in those games. But otherwise yeah, having run always on will catch you off guard in combat when you need that stamina.

But what I think people area actually asking for, (for years now, what with how this topic keeps coming back) is what a lot of modern shooters have been doing already for years: Tap once to "toggle" sprint, (which only works when you're already moving, not at a stand still) but when you stop moving, strafe, or hit SHIFT again, then it toggles it back off, requiring another press to activate once more. COD and other games have been doing this since day one.

In the case of 7DTD, this prevents the player overexerting themselves for other actions, (if the sprint wasn't that long) something a simple "toggle ALWAYS on and off" won't do. You can't fight anyway while sprinting....I don't think. Yeah, that still doesn't solve the issue of the "auto-pilot" mindset, but it at least mitigates it somewhat. I personally think it's worth the rest for the pinky finger.

----

Other than that though.....yeah, key rebinding software works wonders for this issue, both for auto sprint AND auto walk.

[ShatteredPumpkin]

Originally posted by SylenThunder:

In a game where there is a cost to running, auto-run does not make sense.

literally makes no sense ngl

[SkepticJoker]

What I need is a dedicated button for toggle walk, and an option to enabled toggle sprint.

[Crashtian]

Originally posted by SylenThunder:

In a game where there is a cost to running, auto-run does not make sense.

A toggle option makes complete sense. You can hit the button twice. Especially given the use of shift on vehicles.

Toggles are QOL, not everyone has healthy hands. The majority of the payer base is old enough to suffer from arthritis.

[Serath]

Originally posted by Crashtian:

Originally posted by SylenThunder:

In a game where there is a cost to running, auto-run does not make sense.

A toggle option makes complete sense. You can hit the button twice. Especially given the use of shift on vehicles.

Toggles are QOL, not everyone has healthy hands. The majority of the payer base is old enough to suffer from arthritis.

I mean, my hands are pretty healthy, I type fast for a living. But I'd like the toggle (in the way I described earlier, which does not seem to be the way it's being taken as) so they DON'T get that way.

[merc197]

Auto run/drive/fly key would be really great addition into this game. I don't think anyone would be against it.

[pApA^LeGBa]

@SylenThunder You make to big of a deal about people not beeing able to handle that function and dying due to it. As always, make it an option and everyone can have it their way. Like we have with the aiming wich also uses stamina.

And actually i don´t care if it´s toggle shift or a autorun key. It´s about not having to press shift down constantly obviously.

A good map generation with more T5 POI´s would half solve that issue already. (Still can´t believe that it is not possible to guaranteed get all of them on one map at least once. That´s valuable lifetime wasted to get a map with all of them. Meh.)

Autorun key, toggle shift, i don´t care. Just end that having to hold down shift for ages.

[Maverick Mullah]

It astounds me how many people are against a simple QoL feature that wouldn't even affect them...if they're so against it simply turn it off from the main settings if it ever gets implemented and you more than likely will not even remember if it was ever there.

A toggle sprint key would be extremely useful in this game from multiple view points. So what if stamina management will become a bigger effort? Either turn it off if it's an issue for your particular frame of mind or keep it on for those who don't mind the added mental gymnastics. I can say from my own limited experience dealing with sore hands after gaming that many will prefer going through those said mental gymnastics than bare the pain that not having a toggle key for sprint would bring them physically.

[psycros]

Originally posted by Maverick Mullah:

It astounds me how many people are against a simple QoL feature that wouldn't even affect them...if they're so against it simply turn it off from the main settings if it ever gets implemented and you more than likely will not even remember if it was ever there.

A toggle sprint key would be extremely useful in this game from multiple view points. So what if stamina management will become a bigger effort? Either turn it off if it's an issue for your particular frame of mind or keep it on for those who don't mind the added mental gymnastics. I can say from my own limited experience dealing with sore hands after gaming that many will prefer going through those said mental gymnastics than bare the pain that not having a toggle key for sprint would bring them physically.

Look at how many basic features this game lacks compared to others of the same genre (and even sub-genre of zombie survival). QoL has never been a priority for TFP. It took us EIGHT YEARS to get visible bars for food & water levels, things that are literally life and death and obvious to the character. We don't even have a way to choose a specific number of items to remove from a stack. The more realistic cities and junk weapons are very nice and I'm glad to get them, truly, but the next *minor* update should be about adding those features we take for granted in other games.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by psycros:

Originally posted by Maverick Mullah:

It astounds me how many people are against a simple QoL feature that wouldn't even affect them...if they're so against it simply turn it off from the main settings if it ever gets implemented and you more than likely will not even remember if it was ever there.

A toggle sprint key would be extremely useful in this game from multiple view points. So what if stamina management will become a bigger effort? Either turn it off if it's an issue for your particular frame of mind or keep it on for those who don't mind the added mental gymnastics. I can say from my own limited experience dealing with sore hands after gaming that many will prefer going through those said mental gymnastics than bare the pain that not having a toggle key for sprint would bring them physically.

Look at how many basic features this game lacks compared to others of the same genre (and even sub-genre of zombie survival). QoL has never been a priority for TFP. It took us EIGHT YEARS to get visible bars for food & water levels, things that are literally life and death and obvious to the character. We don't even have a way to choose a specific number of items to remove from a stack. The more realistic cities and junk weapons are very nice and I'm glad to get them, truly, but the next *minor* update should be about adding those features we take for granted in other games.

Uhm, No. It did not take them eight years to implement food and water bars. We had food and water bars for the majority of the games lifetime, then they removed them to clean up the UI since that information wasn't readily neccessary in most cases- But by popular demand, they re-added them in a low-space taking manner.