Don't use the metal axes in Alpha 16!!!

[ApolloActual]

I have done some research regarding the axes variants available in 7DTD. Here are my findings. The entity damage done {Stone: ~1725/min., Iron: ~1800/min., Steel: ~1860/min.}
The wood given (only tested on vanilla trees) {Stone: ~150/min., Iron: 180/min., Steel: ~300/min.}
The wood/damage ratio or effeciency {Stone: ~0.087, Iron: ~0.1, Steel: ~0.16}

These results so far are looking good for the tools. It shows the better the tool, the better the effeciency, yet there is something we haven't seen yet. What do they do to stamina? With starting stats, the player has a stamina pool of 100 with a regeneration rate of 2.5 per second, meaning it takes the player 40 seconds to gain full stamina.

The stamina cost {Stone: ~225/min., Iron: ~480/min., Steel: ~900/min.}
Stamina drain while chopping (regen added) {Stone: ~1.25/sec., Iron: ~5.5/sec., Steel: ~12.5/sec}
Time till stamina reaches 0 (from 100) {Stone: ~80 sec., Iron ~18 sec., Steel ~8 sec.}

If we factor this all togethor, we find that stamina cost drastically increases in exchange for some effeciency. Now, of course you improve wellness and can buy upgrades to reduce stamina costs and improve these stats, but that means that you would have spent time, skill points, and resouces to gain a slight improvement in tool effeciency. My suggestion is you reserve your pricey metal tools for some sort of resource that is of value and worth the extra time and just use stone. I have done small amounts of testing with other tools as well such as the shovel and picks. They seem to be the same but I haven't crunched the numbers so I'm not sure.

I'd love to here what people think and if they think I'm wrong because I overlooked something or whatever.

[Hellya]

I do not believe stone axe benifits from Miner 69er. That perk alone is huge.

[Green777]

use steel axes just drink grain and coffee

[Anabean Soywalker]

Stone axe is a construction tool so miner69er dosen't affect it. 2 or 3 points in that skill will improve gathering rate a lot for the iron/steel axe.

[Survival Gamer]

Originally posted by Green777:

use steel axes just drink grain and coffee

Yes, and the most important resource you need early, iron, is best with iron or steel picks, definitely not stone axe.

[prpl_mage]

The problem right now isn't the metal tools but the fact that taking only one hit to mine a block earns you less resources than taking two strikes because of the overkill harvest bonus.
So around lvl 80 you will most likely get less resources with maxed miner 69er and a steel pickaxe around 400-450 than before.

However, if we are simply talking about breaking stuff then the steel pickaxe should be at the top with miner 69er or the sledgehammer

[𝓝𝓪𝓬𝓱𝓸𝓫𝓸𝓲]

Use beer or coffee. Stamina should not be an issue with 5/5 in Miner69er. The ability to gain more resources and reduce staina degradation is insanely valuable with steel tools.

It would have been better to test total wood yield for different quality tools with 5/5 in respective resource gathering fields (stone: Bad Mechanic, Mining: Miner69er). EDIT: reason behind this is total resource yield being different based on tool quality.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by prpl_mage:

The problem right now isn't the metal tools but the fact that taking only one hit to mine a block earns you less resources than taking two strikes because of the overkill harvest bonus.
So around lvl 80 you will most likely get less resources with maxed miner 69er and a steel pickaxe around 400-450 than before.

However, if we are simply talking about breaking stuff then the steel pickaxe should be at the top with miner 69er or the sledgehammer

sledgehammer has very low return rates if used for mining

it's a weapon and a house breaking tool while looting, it's terrible for mining resources

Originally posted by ApolloActual:

I have done some research regarding the axes variants available in 7DTD. Here are my findings. The entity damage done {Stone: ~1725/min., Iron: ~1800/min., Steel: ~1860/min.}
The wood given (only tested on vanilla trees) {Stone: ~150/min., Iron: 180/min., Steel: ~300/min.}
The wood/damage ratio or effeciency {Stone: ~0.087, Iron: ~0.1, Steel: ~0.16}

These results so far are looking good for the tools. It shows the better the tool, the better the effeciency, yet there is something we haven't seen yet. What do they do to stamina? With starting stats, the player has a stamina pool of 100 with a regeneration rate of 2.5 per second, meaning it takes the player 40 seconds to gain full stamina.

The stamina cost {Stone: ~225/min., Iron: ~480/min., Steel: ~900/min.}
Stamina drain while chopping (regen added) {Stone: ~1.25/sec., Iron: ~5.5/sec., Steel: ~12.5/sec}
Time till stamina reaches 0 (from 100) {Stone: ~80 sec., Iron ~18 sec., Steel ~8 sec.}

If we factor this all togethor, we find that stamina cost drastically increases in exchange for some effeciency. Now, of course you improve wellness and can buy upgrades to reduce stamina costs and improve these stats, but that means that you would have spent time, skill points, and resouces to gain a slight improvement in tool effeciency. My suggestion is you reserve your pricey metal tools for some sort of resource that is of value and worth the extra time and just use stone. I have done small amounts of testing with other tools as well such as the shovel and picks. They seem to be the same but I haven't crunched the numbers so I'm not sure.

I'd love to here what people think and if they think I'm wrong because I overlooked something or whatever.

The real question is: who cares?

You can sit at 0 stamina and still mine, if you feel in danger pop a beer and regen stamina to run away

If you are underground relatively safe, your stamina is of no importance at all

[CellNav]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

You can sit at 0 stamina and still mine, if you feel in danger pop a beer and regen stamina to run away

Indeed, we can mine at 0 stanima, however, once stanima drops below a certain value you will lose effiency with the tool ... an ~33% loss below 50 stanima with a starting stanima of 220 (on mostly ore types .. iron, lead, etc). Also, tool durability below ~50% appears to lose effiency as well.

For bean counters it's a big deal, others don't care that much really ... :/

[Speedbump]

Drink two grain alcohol and a few coffees all at once and you should be able to sprint as well as mine/chop trees without losing any stamina.

[Del]

Mining at 0 stamina causes a massive reduction in returns and increases the number of hits to break a block. I can't agree with not using iron or steel tools though. I advance to them as soon as possible because the return is worth it. Unless you are going to spend the entire game on grain alchohol, coffee and beer, it is worth putting points into sexual tyrannosaurus. I end up with at least 4 levels of it and miner 69er is a no brainer, you want all 5 of those as soon as possible.

A high level steel pickaxe with those two perks gathers exponentially more resource than anything but the augur. I do concede, I use the stone axe for at least two days, for both stamina and construction tool leveling reasons. After that it's iron then steel all the way.

What you describe is a mechanic that pushes stamina management in the early to mid game in the form of what they have provided in the aforementioned beverages.

[Karma]

Originally posted by 3delinquent:

Mining at 0 stamina causes a massive reduction in returns and increases the number of hits to break a block. I can't agree with not using iron or steel tools though. I advance to them as soon as possible because the return is worth it. Unless you are going to spend the entire game on grain alchohol, coffee and beer, it is worth putting points into sexual tyrannosaurus. I end up with at least 4 levels of it and miner 69er is a no brainer, you want all 5 of those as soon as possible.

A high level steel pickaxe with those two perks gathers exponentially more resource than anything but the augur. I do concede, I use the stone axe for at least two days, for both stamina and construction tool leveling reasons. After that it's iron then steel all the way.

What you describe is a mechanic that pushes stamina management in the early to mid game in the form of what they have provided in the aforementioned beverages.

+

[Del]

In my experience two grain alchohols at once gives you a drunk buff and slows you by 10%, even if you add coffee to the equation. If you drink one grain alchohol you get 4 game hours of stamina which high level tools are still capable of draining if you are mining. Adding a coffe in that situation then gives you a high rate of stamina recovery and offsets the drain.

Coffee - Highest rate of stamina regeneration, warming - lasts 45min.
Beer - High rate of stamina regen, stun immunity - lasts 1 hour.
Grain alchohol - High rate of stamina regen - lasts 4 hours.
Grain alchohol + coffee = highest rate, longest lasting stamina. Coffee has to be readded every 45 min.

6 beers at once = drunk. 2 grain alchohols at once = drunk. I'm not sure how many beers you can take on top of a grain alchohol before you get drunk. Being drunk slows you down by 10%. Be very careful if z's are running, dogs and wolves become harder to handle as well.

Be aware coffee dehydrates, you need plenty of hydration with it. Beer causes no dehydration, not sure about grain alchohol. Coffee and Grainalchohol both lower wellness. If using them constantly you will lose the odd wellness point if you are not offsetting it with something like golden rod tea and high wellness foods.

[MeDaDaddy]

Originally posted by ApolloActual:

I have done some research regarding the axes variants available in 7DTD. Here are my findings. The entity damage done {Stone: ~1725/min., Iron: ~1800/min., Steel: ~1860/min.}
The wood given (only tested on vanilla trees) {Stone: ~150/min., Iron: 180/min., Steel: ~300/min.}
The wood/damage ratio or effeciency {Stone: ~0.087, Iron: ~0.1, Steel: ~0.16}

These results so far are looking good for the tools. It shows the better the tool, the better the effeciency, yet there is something we haven't seen yet. What do they do to stamina? With starting stats, the player has a stamina pool of 100 with a regeneration rate of 2.5 per second, meaning it takes the player 40 seconds to gain full stamina.

The stamina cost {Stone: ~225/min., Iron: ~480/min., Steel: ~900/min.}
Stamina drain while chopping (regen added) {Stone: ~1.25/sec., Iron: ~5.5/sec., Steel: ~12.5/sec}
Time till stamina reaches 0 (from 100) {Stone: ~80 sec., Iron ~18 sec., Steel ~8 sec.}

If we factor this all togethor, we find that stamina cost drastically increases in exchange for some effeciency. Now, of course you improve wellness and can buy upgrades to reduce stamina costs and improve these stats, but that means that you would have spent time, skill points, and resouces to gain a slight improvement in tool effeciency. My suggestion is you reserve your pricey metal tools for some sort of resource that is of value and worth the extra time and just use stone. I have done small amounts of testing with other tools as well such as the shovel and picks. They seem to be the same but I haven't crunched the numbers so I'm not sure.

I'd love to here what people think and if they think I'm wrong because I overlooked something or whatever.

Good info.

You haven't factored in heat generation for instance when mining ventilation ducts, shelving, girders etc.
Each swing of the stone axe adds 0.1% heat so it's preferable to get that type of mining done in as few hits as possible. Which means skills and good tools.

There's also the time resource to consider; I don't really want to spend an ingame hour chopping one tree or a section of shelving with the wrong tool when we can get more resources from hacking sofas, scrapping chairs and mining shelves with the correct (mining) tool :)

Ninja mining & Ninja looting ftw!

[BillHicks]

Originally posted by Hellya:

I do not believe stone axe benifits from Miner 69er. That perk alone is huge.

That is huge. Hmmm.

[Speedbump]

Originally posted by 3delinquent:

In my experience two grain alchohols at once gives you a drunk buff and slows you by 10%, even if you add coffee to the equation. If you drink one grain alchohol you get 4 game hours of stamina which high level tools are still capable of draining if you are mining. Adding a coffe in that situation then gives you a high rate of stamina recovery and offsets the drain.

Coffee - Highest rate of stamina regeneration, warming - lasts 45min.
Beer - High rate of stamina regen, stun immunity - lasts 1 hour.
Grain alchohol - High rate of stamina regen - lasts 4 hours.
Grain alchohol + coffee = highest rate, longest lasting stamina. Coffee has to be readded every 45 min.

6 beers at once = drunk. 2 grain alchohols at once = drunk. I'm not sure how many beers you can take on top of a grain alchohol before you get drunk. Being drunk slows you down by 10%. Be very careful if z's are running, dogs and wolves become harder to handle as well.

Be aware coffee dehydrates, you need plenty of hydration with it. Beer causes no dehydration, not sure about grain alchohol. Coffee and Grainalchohol both lower wellness. If using them constantly you will lose the odd wellness point if you are not offsetting it with something like golden rod tea and high wellness foods.

Being drunk lowers speed by 10% yes but gives 5 stamina per second instead of buzzed which gives 2. Being drunk with a caffeine buzz gives 5+2, so 7 stamina per second on top of what your character can regenerate naturally.