Support Beam?

[smammered]

Ok, so the diagonal things. What use do they have? I built a wall right? I wanted to build off the wall. I can build concrete 4 blocks out without collapsing. So I decided to add a support beam to give it some more SI! but....it didnt affect anything. Whats the use?

[Kunovega]

It does add, but not a lot. Concrete has one of the worst support values in comparison to it's weight. A support beam that isn't metal will not be strong enough to allow even 1 additional block to the row above it if you are using concrete for a roof line

Just a suggestion: never bridge a gap with concrete unless you are capping it with steel

There's basically 3 support values, wood, concrete and metal

Reinforced (with iron) wood is equal to metal. Iron, Truss, and steel (capped concreate) are all the same "support" value

Something else to know: it doesn't matter if you use a support "pole" or any other type of block in that position, it functions identical (as in the pole shape itself is for looks)

You can test what I'm talking about even with wood frames. Make a stack of wood frames, see how far out you can make one arm coming off the top

Now stick one frame in the corner of the t junction below that (where you would be sticking a support pole) now do that arm extended again. You can now see that you can go an additional block further

You can extend this design using an inverse pyramid style and for each layer of additional support the top row can go another block further

If you don't understand what I'm talking about I suggest opening the creative menu and pulling out a variety of block types, now click on them and actually read their support and weight values

Now stack them and use supports, they do help, but you need to understand how the weights add up and how to calculate the results

A stack of (any) blocks can go from bedrock to sky. Support is calculated from the first block being used to extend out from the bedrock stack. Always understand where your bedrock poles are. All support values go out from there. All "support poles" are helping the block out and over from itself, but must have enough support left over from its weight to actually help or you get nothing

This bridge needs the supports it's using:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=888602435

I'd make a video but you're honestly better off testing it yourself with the creative menu so that it sinks in

[Zourin]

Support beams are identical to any similar block, and are mostly a 'decorative' skin for something that is actually very useful.

Adding extra blocks along a load bearing column or wall improves the structural integrity of the blocks that it supports. Any block, inclusing a wood frame, can do the same thing, but the support beam does this while looking the part.

Metal Reinforced Wood is a material that has the relative inexpensiveness of wood, but the structural integrity of metal. If you're using wood as a support material, I highly suggest upgrading it to metal, and if possible, anchoring it to a nother sturdy, preferably metal block

Structural integrity and architecting in 7DTD involves a very lengthy explanation of the mechanics and how they operate. I've tried to keep it short without getting into a full on guide... but, no, support beams are not useless. They're functional and decorative if used properly.

This picture is is something of an example of a structurally sound platform 'top' (the bottom is a frame so i can 'reset' the design quickly)

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=918654394

The wood tower was completely wood and survived the day 7 horde, so it is possible to easily survive above ground. The cobblestone expansion is able to survive with multiple pillars knocked out, thanks to the narrow spacing and support beams. Functionally speaking, they perform no differently than any other metal block, but they look appropriate.

Good 'Structural' materials:
Wood - Lightweight material, good for building on solid foundations.
Metal - Best structural/load bearing material.

Good 'durable' materials (ground level material/anything exposed to zombies):
Adobe/Cobblestone: durable, available early, and relatively inexpensive.
Concrete: highly durable, inexpensive later game upgrade to cobblestone.
Steel: Expensive, but utlimately durable. Where concrete fails, steel must go.

[...👑 JOST AMMAN 👑...]

@OP: they allow you to extend ledges and support better the upper layers *WITHOUT* being as bulky as other blocks. That's all.

[YamaKami]

@ Kunovega I would have used cat walk there, and the strapped TNT to it. That way if I am being overwhelmed I can blow the bridge and cut off access. Not hard to fix wood after all is said and done the following day.

[CptnHarlock]

Originally posted by YamaKami:

@ Kunovega I would have used cat walk there, and the strapped TNT to it. That way if I am being overwhelmed I can blow the bridge and cut off access. Not hard to fix wood after all is said and done the following day.

Survivalism at its best! Bravo! *adjust monocle*

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by YamaKami:

@ Kunovega I would have used cat walk there, and the strapped TNT to it. That way if I am being overwhelmed I can blow the bridge and cut off access. Not hard to fix wood after all is said and done the following day.

1) there's a catwalk on top of it for the railings, and I prefer the look of the wood reinforced, it was also easier to build this way. Also a wood catwalk will not span that far. It would have to be iron upgraded (as the wood blocks already are), or they dont have the support value to go that far (only metal does)

2) there's ZERO chance of a zombie EVER getting on that bridge or anywhere close to it, it's 100% impossible in the current alpha

All of my upper floors are air gapped in ways that zombies can never follow. They would need to knock down the entire structure (which is also virtually impossible unless you had 100's of cops blowing up at the same time)

That base has withstood 500 zombie horde nights without a single zombie getting into an upper floor and without them breaking anything but the occasional log (which is just a fence for looks)

[YamaKami]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Originally posted by YamaKami:

@ Kunovega I would have used cat walk there, and the strapped TNT to it. That way if I am being overwhelmed I can blow the bridge and cut off access. Not hard to fix wood after all is said and done the following day.

1) there's a catwalk on top of it for the railings, and I prefer the look of the wood reinforced, it was also easier to build this way. Also a wood catwalk will not span that far. It would have to be iron upgraded (as the wood blocks already are), or they dont have the support value to go that far (only metal does)

2) there's ZERO chance of a zombie EVER getting on that bridge or anywhere close to it, it's 100% impossible in the current alpha

All of my upper floors are air gapped in ways that zombies can never follow. They would need to knock down the entire structure (which is also virtually impossible unless you had 100's of cops blowing up at the same time)

That base has withstood 500 zombie horde nights without a single zombie getting into an upper floor and without them breaking anything but the occasional log (which is just a fence for looks)

I know it would not span that far. If it did I would nto be able to blow it up. TNT gets strapped to the supports. It's also far from impossible for a zombie to get there. I can see why you might think that, but that is simply not true. In any event form over function is a poor design choice.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by YamaKami:

Originally posted by Kunovega:

1) there's a catwalk on top of it for the railings, and I prefer the look of the wood reinforced, it was also easier to build this way. Also a wood catwalk will not span that far. It would have to be iron upgraded (as the wood blocks already are), or they dont have the support value to go that far (only metal does)

2) there's ZERO chance of a zombie EVER getting on that bridge or anywhere close to it, it's 100% impossible in the current alpha

All of my upper floors are air gapped in ways that zombies can never follow. They would need to knock down the entire structure (which is also virtually impossible unless you had 100's of cops blowing up at the same time)

That base has withstood 500 zombie horde nights without a single zombie getting into an upper floor and without them breaking anything but the occasional log (which is just a fence for looks)

I know it would not span that far. If it did I would nto be able to blow it up. TNT gets strapped to the supports. It's also far from impossible for a zombie to get there. I can see why you might think that, but that is simply not true. In any event form over function is a poor design choice.

I'm 100% certain no zombie can get up there. I don't think you understand air gaps

There is litterally no walking path possible for a zombie to reach that location, and there's no flying zombies (yet)

The only thing that can get up there are bees, and blowing up a bridge wouldn't help stop them

You do not understand air gapped base design, I've got 5000 kills in that particular tower, just on that one server (and I'm not the admin), there's been hordes of 60 at a time and there's no physical way for them to achieve what you suggest

Unless zombies can fly, there's no way for them to reach there. It's been tested many times

And form over function? Bub that base is 100% functional, you're looking at a bridge that goes out to a farming platform, that bridge isnt where you fight the zombies anyway, and they cant get to it even if you wanted them to

[YamaKami]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Originally posted by YamaKami:

I know it would not span that far. If it did I would nto be able to blow it up. TNT gets strapped to the supports. It's also far from impossible for a zombie to get there. I can see why you might think that, but that is simply not true. In any event form over function is a poor design choice.

I'm 100% certain no zombie can get up there. I don't think you understand air gaps

There is litterally no walking path possible for a zombie to reach that location, and there's no flying zombies (yet)

The only thing that can get up there are bees, and blowing up a bridge wouldn't help stop them

You do not understand air gapped base design, I've got 5000 kills in that particular tower, just on that one server (and I'm not the admin), there's been hordes of 60 at a time and there's no physical way for them to achieve what you suggest

Unless zombies can fly, there's no way for them to reach there. It's been tested many times

Horents fly, spiders climb, and cops can break things that will make that easier. So in no way is it 100% secure. There are also other player to consider if PvP. So it is you that is overconfident rather than I that does not understand. Especially in this version it may seem full proof, as it is presently a cake walk.

Aside from that I could do what you have done n a 3x3 tower in A15, so that isn't really evidence of anything. Also not being far off A16 now, it would be best to consider where things are heading for A16 when giving advice.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by YamaKami:

Horents fly,

Already mentioned, and breaking a bridge to stop hornets = stupid. Yes hornets can get up there, they also don't walk on the bridge, so why would I blow it up to stop them?

spiders climb

They can't climb through the air, there is litterally nothing for them to climb that connects to that location. Again: you do not understand air gaps

and cops can break things that will make that easier.

There is not one thing that a cop can break that will create a path to the upper floors. It's physically not connected to anything that they can break that would create a path

I stated this already: the cops would need to take out the foundations, and to do that would require them to break more than 100 steel blocks at ground level. No other zombie can attack down or up to hit the foundation plates. Only an exploding cop will hurt them and it would take 100's of cops exploding to come close.

I've litterally watched 60 at a time down there trying and there's nothing for them to hit that would allow them entry

They could MAYBE make the base fall, but only if you let them attack it for hours at a time without picking off the cops occasionally

So in no way is it 100% secure.

You do not understand the base design. I can go rebuild this on a private server where I'm the admin and spawn you 1000 zombies and show you that not a single one can reach there, ever

There are also other player to consider if PvP.

That particular design is on a PVE server with 100% land claim protection, I would build slightly different on a PVP world, but that base doesn't need to defend against players, its a cooperative build and it only needs to survive zombies

Yes, cops can spit and explode and do some damage to it, but you shoot those. What we are talking about however is the ability for zombies to get to the upper floors and I'm telling you that unless you show me flying zombies, it can't be done because there is nothing connecting that building to the ground in a way that would allow a zombie to get up into it

Even the spiders are stopped, there's 4 fake poles visually touching the ground, all of which are positioned to block spiders, they also have nothing to do with the foundation which is completely air gapped

Zombies can't climb air

So it is you that is overconfident rather than I that does not understand.

No, you really don't understand

Aside from that I could do what you have done n a 3x3 tower in A15, so that isn't really evidence of anything. Also not being far off A16 now, it would be best to consider where things are heading for A16 when giving advice.

What do I need to prepare for? A bread crumb system? There's no path for them to follow

Zombies that attack poles? There's no poles holding that up

I'm aware of what's in a16 and nothing they've announced so far defeats an air gap that can't be climbed or walked over

A 3x3 tower doesn't give you any room to live, nor enough room to spread out zombie bodies (i prefer a field of bodies so that I can loot them all, not a bunch of zombies dieing on top of each other that make the bodies vanish)

[YamaKami]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Originally posted by YamaKami:

Horents fly,

Already mentioned, and breaking a bridge to stop hornets = stupid. Yes hornets can get up there, they also don't walk on the bridge, so why would I blow it up to stop them?

spiders climb

They can't climb through the air, there is litterally nothing for them to climb that connects to that location. Again: you do not understand air gaps

and cops can break things that will make that easier.

There is not one thing that a cop can break that will create a path to the upper floors. It's physically not connected to anything that they can break that would create a path

I stated this already: the cops would need to take out the foundations, and to do that would require them to break more than 100 steel blocks at ground level. No other zombie can attack down or up to hit the foundation plates. Only an exploding cop will hurt them and it would take 100's of cops exploding to come close.

I've litterally watched 60 at a time down there trying and there's nothing for them to hit that would allow them entry

They could MAYBE make the base fall, but only if you let them attack it for hours at a time without picking off the cops occasionally

So in no way is it 100% secure.

You do not understand the base design. I can go rebuild this on a private server where I'm the admin and spawn you 1000 zombies and show you that not a single one can reach there, ever

There are also other player to consider if PvP.

That particular design is on a PVE server with 100% land claim protection, I would build slightly different on a PVP world, but that base doesn't need to defend against players, its a cooperative build and it only needs to survive zombies

Yes, cops can spit and explode and do some damage to it, but you shoot those. What we are talking about however is the ability for zombies to get to the upper floors and I'm telling you that unless you show me flying zombies, it can't be done because there is nothing connecting that building to the ground in a way that would allow a zombie to get up into it

Even the spiders are stopped, there's 4 fake poles visually touching the ground, all of which are positioned to block spiders, they also have nothing to do with the foundation which is completely air gapped

Zombies can't climb air

So it is you that is overconfident rather than I that does not understand.

No, you really don't understand

Aside from that I could do what you have done n a 3x3 tower in A15, so that isn't really evidence of anything. Also not being far off A16 now, it would be best to consider where things are heading for A16 when giving advice.

What do I need to prepare for? A bread crumb system? There's no path for them to follow

Zombies that attack poles? There's no poles holding that up

I'm aware of what's in a16 and nothing they've announced so far defeats an air gap that can't be climbed or walked over

A 3x3 tower doesn't give you any room to live, nor enough room to spread out zombie bodies (i prefer a field of bodies so that I can loot them all, not a bunch of zombies dieing on top of each other that make the bodies vanish)

One day one you figure out how to eat humble pie, karma (not polly) will have you choke and die on it at this rate.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by YamaKami:

One day one you figure out how to eat humble pie, karma (not polly) will have you choke and die on it at this rate.

Do you understand what an air gap is?

Do you understand that zombies can not climb if there is nothing there to climb?

You do not understand floating fortress design,it's just that simple, there's no connection to the ground for the zombies to get up

The only reason that base isn't 200 feet in the air is so that it's close enough to actually shoot zombies for fun

[YamaKami]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Originally posted by YamaKami:

One day one you figure out how to eat humble pie, karma (not polly) will have you choke and die on it at this rate.

Do you understand what an air gap is?

Do you understand that zombies can not climb if there is nothing there to climb?

You do not understand floating fortress design,it's just that simple, there's no connection to the ground for the zombies to get up

The only reason that base isn't 200 feet in the air is so that it's close enough to actually shoot zombies for fun

I understand you used exploits to cheat. I can see them in your screen shot. That does not make it impervious never-the-less. It is a pretty sad way to play the game though.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by YamaKami:

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Do you understand what an air gap is?

Do you understand that zombies can not climb if there is nothing there to climb?

You do not understand floating fortress design,it's just that simple, there's no connection to the ground for the zombies to get up

The only reason that base isn't 200 feet in the air is so that it's close enough to actually shoot zombies for fun

I understand you used exploits to cheat. I can see them in your screen shot. That does not make it impervious never-the-less.

LOL cheats, the game allows it. No cheats required. And we aren't talking about impervious (cops can spit), we're talking about if zombies can reach the upper floors, which you claim they can

And no bub, they can't. That would require a connection that does not exist

[YamaKami]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Originally posted by YamaKami:

I understand you used exploits to cheat. I can see them in your screen shot. That does not make it impervious never-the-less.

LOL cheats, the game allows it. No cheats required. And we aren't talking about impervious (cops can spit), we're talking about if zombies can reach the upper floors, which you claim they can

And no bub, they can't. That would require a connection that does not exist

Are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ drunk today? Serioulsy your going to try argue that is not cheating ROTFLMFAO that is rich.

Originally posted by Ricky Reinfield:

I think its a matter of perspective if taking advantage of exploits such as floating bases, and ground glitching is actual cheating or not. If the game allows it, its all good is how some ppl see it. But some more moral ppl would see these as cheats. I personally am torn. While this to me doesnt really seem like cheating. I think things like ground glitching are. Seeming other players are affected by it when you glitch to find their undergrounds and stuff like that. Idk just my 2 cents.

Games not done, as such there are exploits present. Using them in the manner seen in that screen shot is cheating, no two ways about it. IMO that is cheesesy and ruins that game, someone wants to play that way because they enjoy, fine. Just don't even begin to insinuate that it not cheating.LOL That is a text book example! Rather audacious to give advice on aspects of the game beyond that if you play in this manner.

The clipping issues is also cheating, but can be harder to avoid as all you have to do is be on a ladder for it to happen much of the time.

Going out of your way to build a floating base though, not even an argument there so far is if it is or is not cheating. I'd bet my next paycheck MM would onfirm as much too.