Thoughts on Echo Chamber Nerf?

[Garfelf]

Not like anyone's used it yet, but w/e

[UwU]

I think it got nerfed too much, was expecting atleast 5 last used cards/pills instead of 3
Or more interesting change... Like being able to choose which cards to remember

[lexilogo]

My first impression is that it's essentially x3 the effect of a Tarot Cloth, and Tarot Cloth is really good, so the item will be fine. I don't know if it will maintain won run status (because even with old echo chamber you can't escape RNG when it comes to actually getting cards to work with) but I think it'll still be extremely good.

[Blue Hair]

I think it will still be very good. 3x use of balls of steel, the stars?, the lovers? tears up.
Honestly it's a slight buff as you'll wont be ♥♥♥♥♥♥ over if you accidentally take a bad pill.

[Fourlamas]

Feels dumb, I mean last 3 consumables is very small amount for the price of a secret room item that barely shows up anyway. I get they had to nerf it but this aint it.

[fromage_enrage]

It's a tough nerf for sure, but I fought my way to Dead God without having to use it, so... I guess I'll live with it.
Plus, old Echo Chamber was supper buggy, so if the nerf brings some stability, that's a worthy trade.

[Goffy]

well it lets you cycle out some terrible cards / pills you may of used which is nice, you can still make game breaking combos with 3 just not as whacky overall but still plenty powerful.

[AlluMan96]

I think it's fine. I actually like that it doesn't pretty much lock you out of certain types of cards as well. I like using stuff like Emperor and Hermit. It's a nice time-save, but Echo Chamber really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ with those in particular. Not to mention Joker, a really good card that if you wanted to use efficiently with echo chamber would just get in the way. This change makes it so that you can still use those cards while you have it. Also, layering the effects of specific cards on top of itself is a pretty nice one as well. What's better than 2 soul hearts from Hierophant? 8 soul hearts. Although that one makes the D1 nerf hurt pretty bad, the actual victim of the recent nerf-wave.

[abisalspider]

I think the card deserved a nerf and this nerf weakens it just enough where it is still good but no longer a guaranteed gamebreak if obtained early.

That said, I wish some more stuff got buffed at the same time. Yeah, Free Lemonade got buffed a bit, but being an active I am still probably skipping it most of the time, and each nerf like this feels like it should be made up by at least 3 or more bad items getting buffed. And there are still at least 20 or more items that I would never buy even if they were at 7 cents in the Store. Hell, Breath of Life, A Pound of Flesh, Tractor Beam, and Voodoo Head I probably wouldnt take for 5 cents.

[HeraldOfOpera]

Originally posted by abisalspider:

I think the card deserved a nerf and this nerf weakens it just enough where it is still good but no longer a guaranteed gamebreak if obtained early.

That said, I wish some more stuff got buffed at the same time. Yeah, Free Lemonade got buffed a bit, but being an active I am still probably skipping it most of the time, and each nerf like this feels like it should be made up by at least 3 or more bad items getting buffed. And there are still at least 20 or more items that I would never buy even if they were at 7 cents in the Store. Hell, Breath of Life, A Pound of Flesh, Tractor Beam, and Voodoo Head I probably wouldnt take for 5 cents.

Breath of Life I wouldn't take even if it was free. Not unless I needed an at-will active item to abuse something else... or any active item at all if I'm Tainted Cain and trying to do Tainted Cain things.

[Danizk0]

Breath of Life is one of the few invincibility-granting items that still allow you to abuse demon beggars and blood donation machines. It's very disappointing to see it in an angel room, but it has its uses.

Originally posted by abisalspider:

Tractor Beam and Voodoo Head I probably wouldnt take for 5 cents.

?????

[Rokk]

This is a blatant attempt at nerfing Tainted Lost and reinforce the existing meta some more. Kind of boring.

[UwU]

Originally posted by Rokk:

This is a blatant attempt at nerfing Tainted Lost and reinforce the existing meta some more. Kind of boring.

How the f is this "nerfing T Lost" and not just nerfing SSS tier item? What even are the odds of finding this item while playing as him?

[HeraldOfOpera]

Originally posted by UwU:

Originally posted by Rokk:

This is a blatant attempt at nerfing Tainted Lost and reinforce the existing meta some more. Kind of boring.

How the f is this "nerfing T Lost" and not just nerfing SSS tier item? What even are the odds of finding this item while playing as him?

Significantly higher than the odds of finding it as anyone else due to how many items he instantly rerolls.

[JellyPuff]

Originally posted by abisalspider:

That said, I wish some more stuff got buffed at the same time. Yeah, Free Lemonade got buffed a bit, but being an active I am still probably skipping it most of the time, and each nerf like this feels like it should be made up by at least 3 or more bad items getting buffed. And there are still at least 20 or more items that I would never buy even if they were at 7 cents in the Store. Hell, Breath of Life, A Pound of Flesh, Tractor Beam, and Voodoo Head I probably wouldnt take for 5 cents.

Same, except for some of the examples given. Tractor Beam is amazing and Curse Rooms are potentially very strong, especially defensively. Having 2 per floor makes them more consistent, especially if you have a way to avoid the spikes, like Flat File or, well, Breath of Life.

I don't get why they haven't buffed Athame already though. It was often just a mediocre item, that maybe nullified damage once or twice before Repentance, where you'd hope for Ultra Envy to run into but that was it. Just give the ring (or at least Athame) an effect similar to Vampirism.

BTT: I agree with the Echo Chamber nerf. Though i would have done it a bit differently. I feel like if you nerf something, you need to just put more effort into it's design to keep it interesting and fun and not feel like a nerf.
Like for example: Echo Chamber is an extra consumable slot and can be put into the back-row by pressing CTRL, allowing you to pick-up and use other consumables without triggering Echo Chamber.

[wckowalski]

Originally posted by abisalspider:

And there are still at least 20 or more items that I would never buy even if they were at 7 cents in the Store. Hell, Breath of Life, A Pound of Flesh, Tractor Beam, and Voodoo Head I probably wouldnt take for 5 cents.

But tractor beam is so amazing if you also pick up my reflection and ipecac!