Tear Gas vs Claymoar vs Seblaster

[AZengus]

Is there any point in using the latter two? They average 12.5/12 DPS at max while Tear Gas is 11 DPS.

11 Industry cost compared to 7 for Tear Gas. What's the point?

[Faust]

Tear Gas does not stack.

[Lynx_gnt]

Originally posted by Faust:

Tear Gas does not stack.

Apparently, they stacks [forums.amplitude-studios.com].
So, about main question: yes, in some places modules with AOE damage are insanely more helpfull, than "single-target" ones.

[AZengus]

I'm mainly asking if there's a difference between the three AoE modules... in this case, there's no reason to use a Claymoar or Seblaster over Tear Gas if the effective DPS is roughly the same.

However there is a radius listed for the latter two weapons, so it's possible that their damage might splash into an adjacent room. I'll need to test that.

[Lynx_gnt]

Tear ges is a support module. Like: you have a room with 4 nodes. You put three tesla modules. Now you have an option: put another tesla module and increase total "DPS in one room" by 33%, or put tear gas, that almost doubles the DPS (+100%). AOE damage from tear gas is mostly useless.

[AZengus]

Is AoE damage in general mostly useless then? That makes Claymoar and Seblaster pointless to build... the devs should balance the AoE modules.

It looks like the splash damage doesn't extend beyond the room, so Tear Gas has the same effective range and DPS as the Claymoar and the Seblaster, but costs less and adds a Defense debuff to enemies in the room.

[Faust]

Originally posted by Lynx_gnt:

Originally posted by Faust:

Tear Gas does not stack.

Apparently, they stacks [forums.amplitude-studios.com].
So, about main question: yes, in some places modules with AOE damage are insanely more helpfull, than "single-target" ones.

I think the damage does not stack even if the armor reduction does.

[Mysterarts]

Hi,

The damage over time of the Tear Gas stacks but its DPS (4 per target) isn't comparable with the Seblaster (7-8 per target).
I will not say that the modules are perfectly balanced but their interests are related to the situations! Some quick math (I might have made a mistake but you get the idea):

A) 3 Tesla (DPS: 30) in a room with 5 floating crystals (defence: 0)
30 x 3 = 90 DPS

A1) 3 Tesla + 1 Tear Gas
(30 x 3) + (4 x 5) = 110 DPS (+20) (+ improves hero damages)

A2) 3 Tesla + 1 Seblaster
(30 x 3) + (7 x 5 + 1) = 126 DPS (+36) (+ risks for heroes)

B) 3 Tesla in a room with 3 bulldozer Silics (defence: 30)
(30 x 3) x (1 - (30/(100+30))) = 69 DPS

B1) 3 Tesla + 1 Tear Gas
((30 x 3) + (4 x 3)) x (1 - (15/(100+15))) = 89 (+20) (+ improves hero damages)

B2) 3 Tesla + 1 Seblaster
((30 x 3) + (7 x 3 + 1)) x (1 - (30/(100+30))) = 86 (+17) (+ risks for heroes)

[AZengus]

Originally posted by Mysterarts:

Hi,

The damage over time of the Tear Gas stacks but its DPS (4 per target) isn't comparable with the Seblaster (7-8 per target).
I will not say that the modules are perfectly balanced but their interests are related to the situations! Some quick math (I might have made a mistake but you get the idea):

A) 3 Tesla (DPS: 30) in a room with 5 floating crystals (defence: 0)
30 x 3 = 90 DPS

A1) 3 Tesla + 1 Tear Gas
(30 x 3) + (4 x 5) = 110 DPS (+20) (+ improves hero damages)

A2) 3 Tesla + 1 Seblaster
(30 x 3) + (7 x 5 + 1) = 126 DPS (+36) (+ risks for heroes)

B) 3 Tesla in a room with 3 bulldozer Silics (defence: 30)
(30 x 3) x (1 - (30/(100+30))) = 69 DPS

B1) 3 Tesla + 1 Tear Gas
((30 x 3) + (4 x 3)) x (1 - (15/(100+15))) = 89 (+20) (+ improves hero damages)

B2) 3 Tesla + 1 Seblaster
((30 x 3) + (7 x 3 + 1)) x (1 - (30/(100+30))) = 86 (+17) (+ risks for heroes)

Thanks for the breakdown. I understand what you're saying, but this is with base level modules, right? Tear Gas scales up stronger as its level goes up, and at IV its DPS is pretty close to the Seblaster. That's what I meant with what I said earlier; if there's something to spend research on for AoE it'll be for the Tear Gas module.

[Mysterarts]

Indeed, you're right!
We need to balance that, thanks for the feedback :)

[wany1981]

well.

Claymore should extend beyond the room for a range and cost more then anything. Unless you have enough operater you won't have the resource to build them.

Seblaster is hard to balance since even on floor 2-7 you need turrets to help you defend on easy already. Yet you still have things to research all the time during floor 2-7.

Telsa is good damage and function but don't damge everything in the room.

Frankly on Easy difficulty where on every game you will get into situation with using 1 defense room to handle 4+ waves of enemy.

The only way i see that handles all situation the best is (Stun + Tear Gas*3 + Hero with hipster Scarf running kitting).

That is both cost effective and works well.
Later you can swtich to claymore/Seblaster if you have enough industy or science spare.

The other Option is to setup a room is Bio+AutoDoc+Supressive+Dust Field+Possible Tear Gas if more minor slots are available. With a Good hero that room can defend again 3-4 waves without moving around. It's just too much rearch needed to make it to work.

[wany1981]

Well i honestly think Tear Gas + Stun is over powered. As long as you don't have the crystal ship thingie that attack minor modules. Put this combo in largest room type with like 5 minor mod space (4 Tear gas+ stun) will damage all monster that move though it by 60% on Easy difficulty. It's just too powerful. Even on drill level 20+ when you get 8 waves of enemy per turn. if you have 2 room with this combnation most monster type will die when run accross those 2 room.

[AZengus]

Originally posted by wany1981:

Well i honestly think Tear Gas + Stun is over powered. As long as you don't have the crystal ship thingie that attack minor modules. Put this combo in largest room type with like 5 minor mod space (4 Tear gas+ stun) will damage all monster that move though it by 60% on Easy difficulty. It's just too powerful. Even on drill level 20+ when you get 8 waves of enemy per turn. if you have 2 room with this combnation most monster type will die when run accross those 2 room.

Haha, this is what I was thinking about when comparing the modules. If you luck out with a huge size room and stack two stuns (or more!), waves tend to get stuck in there for 8+ seconds.

Hence I looked for the highest-DPS AoE module. Unfortunately, they're all the same at level IV so currently it's best to research Tear Gas.

[Baylock]

Slightly necro but I've found mixing an AoE module with tear gas is a great idea, even if it's just one Seblaster or Claymore. The example of "3 Teslas and one tear Gas" is sort of a misnomer- that gives you double DPS on *one* target. Switch out one tesla for a Claymore, and now that Claylmore is double double duty to everything in its radius

Mix it with a Seblaster and it looks like it would do double damage or more to everything in the entire bloody room to boot.

Tear Gas + neurostun is incredibly power, but also incredibly required. I've had 3-4 rooms in a row set up between my crystal and the 'front' and I've had to dislodge the Warden from his side room just to intercept someone because one actually managed to get past. (I was running a lot of smoking guns, so those buggers that run right for the crystal pobably were lowest target priority. DPS on the SG looks astounding, seems to easily outpace basically everything else. And having a room of five of these firing at once looks awesome :P)

[Johnny]

I use tear gas for the monsters defence penalty not for the silly damage. Even if stacked AOE damage is and should be ridiculous.

[Studio Ghibli]

Glad to read this thread. I've been trying to figure out seblaster, tesla, and claymoar, and I've never thought about using more than one Tear Gas in a room.