PLEASE dont go woke + i dont know why... it looks wrong

[PainKiller]

some thing is the design is not what you showed years ago.... looks cartoonish a lil... and im not talking about the texture... the design... i think some one sold you out for it right?

[Patola [Linux]]

引用自 RIP Heihachi：

this is obsidian dude. if anything they allow you to choose your own path.

Like they did in Outer Worlds, where the best endings are barred if you don't get fully invested in the lesbian couple quest (which by itself looks like an examination test on woke 101)? And where you are not even offered sensible dialogue options for someone who would legitimately disagree, like it was wrongthink you are not allowed to have?

引用自 RIP Heihachi：

I'd say obsidian is the least woke of the devs atm who focus on creating yet another game with strong female protagonist, wielding a bow and fighting the opposite sex...

I think no one is against female protagonists or strong female characters. However when you go overboard and every female character is a kind of Mary Sue of perfection and awesomeness and are all unrealistic risk-takers this is obviously cultural conditioning and bad writing at the same time. Reminding that in real life women have much higher reproductive value (important for replacement rates on war, for example) and due to that are smartly more risk averse.

[Meow]

引用自 Gvyomar：

Then this oversatured and noisy issue of woke, no woke (honestly each person says one thing) in videogame industry, is a matter of preferences as a last resort. Why discuss so much if there is not even consensus on what the term means at the moment (and perspectives and tastes influence) in order to determine if it is something convenient or inconvenient?

here is no drama, plenty of games suitable for you, I´m sure.
But woke - no woke, again? buffff.

That's some entertaining Mental Gymnastics you got going on there. Firstly there is consensus on the term 'woke', it originally came from the 'anti Capitalists' camp meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination".

And therefore to combat this 'injustice' Multi billion dollar Capitalist systems and organisations the 'Pro Capitalist ' camp like Black Rock (Founder Larry FInk) utilise ESG's and other systems as pressure on Companies to become 'woke' like Disney (Bob Iger), there is legal disputes going on with Florida government and Disney as we speak. Go figure the left weren't anti establishment after all.

So the general POP-ulous now picked up on the word used 'woke' to tease them. Why? because obviously clearly most people just don't like it.

So then the left that were supposed to be Democratic 'represent the people' in USA are now suddenly 'anti POP-ulist' because people voted for a orange oompa loompa as they weren't happy with the 'Wokism'.

What they failed to realize is Oompa loompa is just another Holywood character that wanted for the longest of time to be the Democratic Candidate and would have been if Hilary hadn't run.

[RACHMANOVSKI]

引用自 Patola Linux：

Like they did in Outer Worlds, where the best endings are barred if you don't get fully invested in the lesbian couple quest (which by itself looks like an examination test on woke 101)? And where you are not even offered sensible dialogue options for someone who would legitimately disagree, like it was wrongthink you are not allowed to have?

"Best endings". This is depends on how you see it. And yes, kudos to Tim Cain and Boyarsky to make Bigoted reply unavailable.

引用自 RIP Heihachi：

I don't think no one is against female protagonists or strong female characters. However when you go overboard and every female character is a kind of Mary Sue of perfection and awesomeness and are all unrealistic risk-takers this is obviously cultural conditioning and bad writing at the same time.

This would be valid if you also levied the same accusation to every male-lead game out there. But I'd wager you didn't. Rendering your opinion as invalid.

[melianos]

引用自 Patola Linux：

I think no one is against female protagonists or strong female characters.

Sure. It definitely is happenstance that every single time there is a female protagonist or a strong female character some hardballs are crying on the internet.

[Patola [Linux]]

引用自 melianos：

引用自 Patola Linux：

I think no one is against female protagonists or strong female characters.

Sure. It definitely is happenstance that every single time there is a female protagonist or a strong female character some hardballs are crying on the internet.

Really? Did you see that with Lara Croft? What about Ripley, from Alien? Or her daughter, Amanda Ripley, in Alien: Isolation? Or maybe actress Jodie Foster in Silence of the Lambs and Contact? Maybe Sarah Connor in Terminator 1 and 2? There are dozens of strong female characters which never had any such reaction, you're just making it up to advance an argument. The thing is that with wokeness / feminism there is that need to portrait women as angelical beings of pure perfection, so you have crappy Mary Sue characters like Rey from Star Wars, which are born knowing how to wield a lighthsaber and commit no mistakes and never have to learn and evolve.

[NeeLot]

引用自 Patola Linux：

Really? Did you see that with Lara Croft? What about Ripley, from Alien? Or her daughter, Amanda Ripley, in Alien: Isolation? Or maybe actress Jodie Foster in Silence of the Lambs and Contact? Maybe Sarah Connor in Terminator 1 and 2? There are dozens of strong female characters which never had any such reaction, you're just making it up to advance an argument. The thing is that with wokeness / feminism there is that need to portrait women as angelical beings of pure perfection, so you have crappy Mary Sue characters like Rey from Star Wars, which are born knowing how to wield a lighthsaber and commit no mistakes and never have to learn and evolve.

It does happen with Lara Croft practically almost any time she doesn't look like a sex doll. Not that I perticularly like how she's depicted in more recent games, but people get really weird about her.

"But what about a thing from several decades ago from when I either wasn't born or my brain wasn't developed enough yet to attach any ideology to a piece of media, because I was too busy playing with my Legos." Is not the best argument and a significant pushback against female protagonist in media has gained much of its momentum in the last decade.

You ever watched any Ghibli movies? How about Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind? It turns 40 in March. Also some spoilers ahead. Do you know that in that movie, the main protagonist, sixteen year old princess Nausicaä not only doesn't make a single mistake throughout the entire runtime, she's almost always the most competent and knowledgeable person in the room, the only person who can effectively end the war and save the world from a catastrophe and also owns several men larger than her in a fight? At the end she dies but comes back to life and turns out to effectively be a messiah like figure. Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind is commonly regarded as one of the best Ghibli films and best animated films to be ever made in general.

[RACHMANOVSKI]

god I dislike casual so much lmao.

Go back playing warzone or something.

[Patola [Linux]]

引用自 NeeLot：

It does happen with Lara Croft practically almost any time she doesn't look like a sex doll. Not that I perticularly like how she's depicted in more recent games, but people get really weird about her.

And you strayed completely from your original argument and turned into a moralist. Lara is criticized for losing her change in sex appeal because she was originally depicted as a very sexy, curvy woman. This criticism doesn't get close to her being a strong or weak character.

引用自 NeeLot：

"But what about a thing from several decades ago from when I either wasn't born or my brain wasn't developed enough yet to attach any ideology to a piece of media, because I was too busy playing with my Legos." Is not the best argument and a significant pushback against female protagonist in media has gained much of its momentum in the last decade.

You turned completely abstract here. What are you babbling about? That some of my examples are decades old? How can I demonstrate something historical if I don't give old examples?

引用自 NeeLot：

You ever watched any Ghibli movies? How about Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind? It turns 40 in March. Also some spoilers ahead. Do you know that in that movie, the main protagonist, sixteen year old princess Nausicaä not only doesn't make a single mistake throughout the entire runtime, she's almost always the most competent and knowledgeable person in the room, the only person who can effectively end the war and save the world from a catastrophe and also owns several men larger than her in a fight? At the end she dies but comes back to life and turns out to effectively be a messiah like figure. Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind is commonly regarded as one of the best Ghibli films and best animated films to be ever made in general.

But the criticism of woke characters does not apply to anime/Japanese characters. They aren't woke. They have never been, and in fact they serve as counterexample of the insanity that has been going through western media, specially on their female characters which can be strong and powerful without being shallow. And also you give a completely unrelated example, of a character that's supposed to have god-like powers, and that has a framing that would apply the same to men. The example I said, Rey, contrasts completely with that: she has no reason to be flawless, she has no special background or context or framing that would justifiy to be a god amongst men. She is like that just because she's a woman. Just compare her story to Luke Skywalker, where he commits mistakes and shows childish behavior every now and then before growing up for good.

[NeeLot]

引用自 Patola Linux：

And you strayed completely from your original argument and turned into a moralist. Lara is criticized for losing her change in sex appeal because she was originally depicted as a very sexy, curvy woman. This criticism doesn't get close to her being a strong or weak character.

What was my original argument?

引用自 Patola Linux：

You turned completely abstract here. What are you babbling about? That some of my examples are decades old? How can I demonstrate something historical if I don't give old examples?

I'm babbling about you going pretty deep into double standard.

引用自 Patola Linux：

But the criticism of woke characters does not apply to anime/Japanese characters. They aren't woke. They have never been, and in fact they serve as counterexample of the insanity that has been going through western media, specially on their female characters which can be strong and powerful without being shallow. And also you give a completely unrelated example, of a character that's supposed to have god-like powers, and that has a framing that would apply the same to men. The example I said, Rey, contrasts completely with that: she has no reason to be flawless, she has no special background or context or framing that would justifiy to be a god amongst men. She is like that just because she's a woman. Just compare her story to Luke Skywalker, where he commits mistakes and shows childish behavior every now and then before growing up for good.

Oh, sorry! I forgot that the woke doesn't apply to the glorious Nihon.

But it's good to know that you'd flip on the Star Wars sequels if someone came out and said "Rey is the space Jesus" even if it was in the last few minutes of the final movie. Just gonna add that Nausicaä is not presented to have god like powers, she's only revealed to be special right before credits start to roll.

[Nomad]

Honestly the right wing meltdown on this post is amazing

[melianos]

引用自 Patola Linux：

Really? Did you see that with Lara Croft?

As Lara Croft was designed a women so you get to watch a womans' ass when playing, that's definitely a point in my favor.

The most well known mod for Tomb Raider is getting her naked.

引用自 Patola Linux：

What about Ripley, from Alien? Or her daughter, Amanda Ripley, in Alien: Isolation? Or maybe actress Jodie Foster in Silence of the Lambs and Contact? Maybe Sarah Connor in Terminator 1 and 2? There are dozens of strong female characters which never had any such reaction, you're just making it up to advance an argument.

Grow some and stop crying, your "dozens" are always the same 4-5 examples AND you need to get out of gaming to find them.

[melianos]

Oh and the protagonist of Alien Isolation spends the game running from an apex predator (the Alien), how is that a strong female character?

[Patola [Linux]]

引用自 melianos：

Oh and the protagonist of Alien Isolation spends the game running from an apex predator (the Alien), how is that a strong female character?

She's the sole survivor of a space station infested with xenonorphs and killed all of the ultra-dangerous aliens too. She's an engineer and pretty competent at her job. She's emotionally mature and doesn't break down when a gun is pointed at her, reacts calm and smart, asks the name of her assailant. She is empathetic, technologically savvy and can improvise and can also work in a team (without being annoying or uncooperative) as with the android and the officers in the station. None of this conforms to stereotypes of fragility and capriciousness associated with women. And all these contribute to ground and humanize her instead of turning her into an invincible goddess. She's sturdy, but relatable. She even commits a few mistakes, as a real human would do.

[melianos]

This is a gamers forum, why don't you cut the crap no one will take that seriously here.

[Tonkinese]

引用自 Kai：

Its microsoft, of course it would be. Wake up

try snoy