The reason why Rust is huge and Space Engineers barely anyone's heard of

[Arch]

Cuz really, beyond the superficial, in the core game, what makes this a game, there's only a tiny difference. And SE has WAY more potential, but is woefully horrible in its execution vs. rust.

It's all about resource scarcity and PVP.

In both games you run around collecting resources, building stuff that anyone can destroy if they also collect enough resources and build their own stuff, the games give you tons of weapons and things you can use for PVP, and there's a ton of ingenuity in how you build stuff, whether in the rust building system or the SE building system.

The difference is, in Rust there's actual competition for resources, whereas in SE there is none.

That relative scarcity of resources makes you fear losing and actively seek to win against other players. No scarcity, no cause for interaction in SE.

In Rust, there's a potential encounter every moment.
In SE, you're alone in a whole freakin galaxy unless you specifically ask someone in chat to meet, and even then that can take like an hour of in-game flight (lol).


And so, SE has way way lesser appeal than rust. The game is fun for a bit, but just not exciting, not exhilirating, there's so few moments of actual energy and most of the time you have to artificially create them or waste hours and hours seeking them out.

The building system is great, it gives you a million options to build pretty much anything, but there's no point to building anything, because there's nothing to do with it.


And there you go. The reason for the popularity of Rust and the anonymity of SE



I really hope you guys at SE HQ improve on these aspects in SE2, to make the game a lot more exciting in terms of player interaction, resource scarcity, competition, actual... things that can be interesting content.
Because SE has a million times the potential of Rust.

[DivineEvil]

引用自 123：

Looks like two people to me.
https://steamdb.info/app/252490/

I dunno maybe 3 players
https://steamdb.info/app/346110/

And? You're comparing apples to oranges. You're comparing a creative-focus sandbox game with PvP-oriented games. Much like the OP, you're seemingly unaware about the difference. Creative games are smaller niche. They will always going to have smaller population because fewer people have creative tendencies and qualifications. There's not a single creative game in the popularity rating top positions - all of it is filled with casual shooters and battle royales.

Running around and shooting people is easy. Making a Zoo of dinos on PvE server is easy. Building operational flying, driving and walking vehicles takes effort and aptitude. When you present a game as a creative sandbox game, 9 out of 10 people with no creative spark will go right past it. Same is true for creative people looking at combat sandboxes - they won't jump into a pot full of griefers, campers, cheaters and toxic kids in favor of their sanity. Rust and ARK building mechanics are primitive and pathetic.

But yeah, like I and other have said, you can kinda make a Rust experience in SE (and you cannot do the opposite) with particular server setup (even though even one SE Moon is vastly larger than the biggest Rust map by surface area), and you are free to try to make or look for such a server. If there's no such server already, then there's no demand for it.

[Takeda]

引用自 War Wizard：

Rust is a DayZ styled survival, Space Engineers is a Minecraft styled survival, they appeal to different types of gamers and provide different gaming experiences accordingly. Comparing them is stupid.

Furthermore Rust popularity has nothing to do with its design or aesthetics. The only reason Rust is gotten so big is simply because of spanish streamers. If Rubius and the likes of him suddenly decided to start streaming Space Engineers, this game would also see a sudden exponential increase in its players base.

I don't doubt SE would see a bump in figures, but where it's skewed toward a more technically minded audience, that bump would flatten again.

Streaming Chess games would not cause the Total War community to suddenly join the Chess players - despite similarities in the game's nature, it's the presentation of the game itself and how it appeals to the player base.

[ognar]

And that is the reason SE is better than Rust, I do not want to have to worry about other player ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ up my things.

[123]

引用自 DivineEvil：

引用自 123：

Looks like two people to me.
https://steamdb.info/app/252490/

I dunno maybe 3 players
https://steamdb.info/app/346110/

And? You're comparing apples to oranges.

I am comparing games that make money and games that don't

So yes I am comparing apples to oranges

引用自 ognar：

And that is the reason SE is better than Rust, I do not want to have to worry about other player ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ up my things.

HUH????
You can destroy peoples stuff EASIER in space engineers than you can in rust
You twiddle dees that always cry about rust is fairly funny to be honest.
You can destroy peoples stuff EASIER in ARK than you can in rust.

If you actually read what I said you would see I said one of the flaws this game has for pvp is the inability to defend your base but god bubble.
but... reading...

Reality steam should enforce age verification to post to forums.

[dragonsphotoworks]

Have not tried rust other then watching others. Was going to but never got around to it. So i can not commen if harder or easier and dont believe i have? As for that aspect ill have to take your word on it as i cant say either way. And ark was a pita with that. Even on PVE server you could log in to some one having dragged a giga or such in range of your defense turrets then sat back and laughed as giga ate your base lol I played lot of ark so that i can agree being easy and almost as easy in pve official servers.

[Crown]

Tried Rust. Hated it. Maybe one day I'll go back and try again. Doubt it. Last I check Rust didn't have a creative mode. Did this change? Even if it did, it offers nothing for it. Except maybe build towers to jump off of.

Compared to SE? It doesn't. Cause the focus isn't and never will be, the player. It's about the ships, fortresses, mechs, dragons, and space narwhals. Rust is just buildings with toxic people spouting how great they are and how everyone else sucks.

[123]

引用自 dragonsphotoworks：

Have not tried rust other then watching others. Was going to but never got around to it. So i can not commen if harder or easier and dont believe i have? As for that aspect ill have to take your word on it as i cant say either way. And ark was a pita with that.

For all the hate rust gets as raiding/offline it compares nothing to Ark but if you look at ark it oddly easier to defend than space engineers in current state.

You can tunnel through ground and just use a grinder to tear buildings apart.
Ark you need explosives which problematically is way to cheap to make.

So if with the DLC and pvp map they are looking to implement more for pvp there has to be some type of new mechanic or balancing I think.

引用自 Crown：

Rust is just buildings with toxic people spouting how great they are and how everyone else sucks.

All I have seen here so far in this thread is lot of toxic trolls which barely make coherent sentences. Are you trying to say you represent the community? Maybe scream call people more names rage a bit more?

And yes you can be in "creative mode" in rust they call it build servers to practice for real competition

Can space engineers build a computer inside it?
Last I check it was only done cheeky way with scripting language.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPtEDAlHTQU

[dragonsphotoworks]

Oh i know about ark. played it for long time. then went to private servers with friends. Cant dig but CAN drag free range dinos to attack some ones base.

Technically SE DOES have a computer in it. Its the program block. And only need build one block compared to what looks like dozens? But do need to know how to script. Or hope some one already made it.. or willing to make it for you :-)

[Random_Passerby]

引用自 123：

All I have seen here so far in this thread is lot of toxic trolls which barely make coherent sentences. Are you trying to say you represent the community? Maybe scream call people more names rage a bit more?

引用自 123：

You twiddle dees that always cry about rust is fairly funny to be honest.

Yeah, right.

引用自 123：

For all the hate rust gets as raiding/offline it compares nothing to Ark but if you look at ark it oddly easier to defend than space engineers in current state.

You can tunnel through ground and just use a grinder to tear buildings apart.
Ark you need explosives which problematically is way to cheap to make.

Not possible if you are competent enough to protect underside of your base. Or if you are building in space, especially something not static, but a mobile spaceship. And then why not script it to move on its own? Or why not make use of jump drive, when it gets available? Or deploying minefields, defense platforms, sensor arrays. Why not make a drone factory and deploy automated defense ships? And why not play a detection game even, since no one can attack you if you areout of detection range. You literally are meant to engineer solutions for these problems, not just make your static base a mountain of closed doors and ask for game to be balanced in a different way.

Speaking of latter, I see a strange trend in many suggestions - players play a certain game, and then see another one, and suggest implementing mechanics and systems from the previous one. Fractured space is cool and unique in its art style playstyle, so wouldn't it be cool if it was Star Wars themed, right? Infinity: Battlescape is shaping up, its lore is hidden in forums, but is going to be expanded on, and then one player starts to actively present an idea summarized like "Let's make Star Conflict from it!". It has way more players, and so is successful, right?. Later on a video surfaced of him explaining his suggestions, and then the other one of explaining why he became dissatisfied with Star Conflict. Explains a lot, actually. And now Space Engineers and Rust. Would it be a cool idea to make SE like Rust, so fierce competition for small finite resources in nearly infinite space becomes mandatory, right?

No.

Space Engineers has different playstyle at its core. Engineering and building is more important.

Space Engineers aims to provide an environment that fosters creativity, ingenuity, and which is more hopeful in general, than that of Rust's islands. Once you build yourself a spacecraft, you are free to roam the space, not confined to some portion of it.

Space Engineers might as well be not for literally everyone, but for those who like a more technical challenge, like extracting resources from the world and building big ships and stations in a sensible amount of time, or building extremely complex systems in creative mode, probably to build them in survival after that. Min-maxing ship stats, or going for aesthetics.

Space Engineers, as told in a few messages already, can be configured to be Rust-like already, so why aren't more players coming then? Should have worked, according to OP's idea.

Oh, and of course, computers don't have to be made of blocks, they are one block - programmable block - and there can be many of those on ships, doing way more clever things like automated piloting, resource allocation, displaying information, and so on. There are also timers, cheaper but configurable in a different way. In a world of digital computers, there is basically no need for an almost mechanical one.

[123]

引用自 Random_Passerby：

引用自 123：

You can tunnel through ground and just use a grinder to tear buildings apart.

Not possible if you are competent enough to protect underside of your base.

I really am not going to waste my time reading all of it when you didn't know the basic gun in space engineers out ranges any gun tower and takes less than 30s to shoot out.

The basic gun you can equip.
I don't know why you ragers think I do not own the game you see that mouse icon?
Maybe buy some glasses? ? ?

You sit explaining and crying how you hate pvp than continue to try to explain a person that does play pvp how it works in game they own as well?

While trying to claim space engineers is like rust pvp/raiding? a game you clearly haven't played, while ranting how space engineers has no simple logic gates means its superior to minecraft and rust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEcmaXwjwuY

https://rustlabs.com/item/xor-switch

[dragonsphotoworks]

引用自 123：

While trying to claim space engineers is like rust pvp/raiding? a game you clearly haven't played, while ranting how space engineers has no simple logic gates means its superior to minecraft and rust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEcmaXwjwuY

https://rustlabs.com/item/xor-switch

I didnt say that myself. But logic gates would be big help in SE for me as i understand those better then scripts. best game with logic assets was factorio imho "Not same game type i know. But does use logic gates". So for non scripters it would be a plus in SE i agree. AS for pvp i have no idea never played rust.

Though i see both games have similiar basic idea.. build, fight on a map. Rust as far as i seen and heard is a small map which promotes pvp. And fights over resources. So map and resource allocation is designed to promote pvp at its base core.

SE is designed oppisite. With high amounts of resources spread around to encourage building creative items. And with huge maps that also allow more peaceful chances to build with out fear of raids.

Rust pvp
SE building huge and rediculously complex setups.
Now i am not saying one is better then the other. for 2 reasons... 1 i never played rust myself just saw some gameplays. 2. they set up to focus on seperate aspects of game play.

Is one better.. well for PVP that be rust. For large base/ship building then its SE. It depends on what you want out of a game.

Personally i prefer just building and occasionally doing a scenario or two. So for me SE is best. Now if i preferred PVP i would likely playRust or another similiar game. This game closer in core with Factorio then Rust. Or close to satisfactory then Rust as well.

I am not downing your game Rust. Others i cant speak for.. thats on them hehe But if they turned SE into a clone of sorts of rust i would personally dislike it. Others might just as much love it. So each persons view on better will differ.

EDIT - To add... if they expand on PVP i wouldnt care either way as long as leave my PVE/Building on single player or co-op alone :-)

EDIT 2- As for minecraft my kids been pushing me to play it with them. And im discovering there is also lot more to it then i thought. As redstone and levers and what not else do seem to allow some form of automation.

[Random_Passerby]

Haaa, so the point of these posts was more about community's reaction to them, got it.

引用自 123：

I really am not going to waste my time reading all of it when you didn't know the basic gun in space engineers out ranges any gun tower and takes less than 30s to shoot out.

Should have wasted some time reading al of it, my point wasn't about ranges at all, but about other options. Drones can close range really quickly, and what will you do with your gun then? Or if turret is concealed in the ground, where both of you are in range? Or if you both are out of range?

引用自 123：

You sit explaining and crying how you hate pvp than continue to try to explain a person that does play pvp how it works in game they own as well?

No one cried in their messages, claiming that they did is to provoke a reaction.

引用自 123：

how you hate pvp

No one claimed this either. Dislike PvP - true, but no claim of hate of PvP.

引用自 123：

While trying to claim space engineers is like rust pvp/raiding?

Where exactly? The point is that you can make your own server with resource scarcity and limited space to force PvP competition and raiding, which were OP's suggestions, rather than tailoring entire game for this specific interest to detriment of other interests. Not everyone likes raiding, so they can play their own way, while others do like raiding, and still can play too. There are players asking of how to find resources while these resources are all around them, if amount of resources was limited, they probably would stop playing at all, though I'm not certain on that.

引用自 123：

while ranting how space engineers has no simple logic gates means its superior to minecraft and rust.

There was no rant about how SE has no logic gates, and neither about how it is superior to both Minecraft and Rust. Also Red Power 2 is awesome, and so are Computercraft and Open Computers. Those go hand-in-hand with Minecraft's logic gates, and one isn't superior to another in general, but instead beter in specific solutions. Same goes for SE's programmable blocks. They're perfect in cases when you require a real-time rotor control in VTOLs, or manipulators, or turrets, or for automation. Where they would be overkill, timers will do. Or just sorters. Or manual control even. But how'd you make a real-time programmable controls with that room of logic gates on an automated drone, for example?

引用自 123：

you ragers

Heh :D

[Gasboy]

引用自 GameLightz：

The difference is, in Rust there's actual competition for resources, whereas in SE there is none.

RUST takes place in a small area. SE has multiple planets, plus a solar system's worth of asteroids. It's not a fair comparison, for your argument. RUST is not a large open world, it's a closed system. Also, RUST has always, as far as I can recall, been marketed as mainly a PvP game, where was SE has always been marketed as a buildy-type game with a survival sci-fi theme. It was less about PvP and more solving problems and building things (usually solving problems with said built things).

RUST has probably had more advertising than SE has, to top it off.

So sure, RUST has a larger install base. So? Does every game have to be as big as every other game? If that's your metric, RUST is pathetic compared to CS:GO. If RUST is so good, why does it barely have 10% of what CS:GO has?

While we might wish that Keen would take the game in a different direction, or that they'd fix some of the more egregious bugs, the simple fact is they are still working on the game, they are still putting out content, updates and bug fixes.. they are obviously pulling in enough money for them to consider it economically viable, which is a more important factor in considering whether a game is a success or not.

[meraco]

Why is there a debate over two completely different games anyway?

Rust has nothing to do with Space Engineers, or this forum....

[dragonsphotoworks]

引用自 KhanTheMad：

devs do not care about proper pvp, they only care about extracting what ever money they can out of this game via DLCs from all the PvE players that want their ships to be shiny and to never get damaged because they know that the games engine can not handle playing dedicated survival servers let alone with active PvP, to anyone looking for a PvP ship building game, look into starbase. they plan to drop EA soon and has PvP in mind as a core system to the gameplay, and sadly keen is not interested or able to provide space engineers as a true PvP game.

Isnt that the one you have to pay a 15$ a month sub for? I was interested till saw that. almost 200$ to pay for one year... when i could buy 10 games or so for same... Plus many of those after while shut down and have nothing to show in end.

Though game did look awesome. "I might be mixing 2 games up as i was looking other day at 2 new ones coming. Both SE type games."