Are players ever going to learn how to race?

[noodles]

I'm certainly no god tier driver. Usually I finish around 5-8 and I usually don't qualify. I just go with it so I often start around 10-13 on the grid. Anyway its been a year and people are still trying to pass in the craziest of places. People are still divebombing corners, running others off the track when there is clearly nowhere for that person to go, going four wide into a turn somehow, and every other crazy scenario you can imagine.

Its funny to watch and its fun to be a part of when the other person is actually trying not to hit you. But I feel like most players still just don't care and will do anything to pass inefficiently on the first lap when there is still a whole race to be had.

I'm S safety rating and 4900 skill so i'm starting to think those ratings dont even really matter lol.

[Duke Igthorn]

You do realize that this is exactly how Verstrappen drives in real life and all the morons on the broadcast call it thrilling and risky. Can you blame kids for driving like idiots when they get told on TV how great it is to drive like an idiot?

[Jamma003]

Its not everyone, Ive always made a conscious effort to drive fairly, to a fault even. Ill leave a cars space on the inside for someones divebomb even if they never attempted it. Or if I ♥♥♥♥♥♥ a corner up and made a dirty pass Ill slow down and fall behind them again. Some other people also do this that Ive raced with.

But yeah Im 4960-something rated and S safety, and I cant tell the difference between S and B rating which was my lowest.

[clairvoyantwolf]

In my personal opinion the dynamic racing line is the worst assist to have ever been added to racing games.

Lots of the behaviors people complain about in multiplayer come from it. Players never learn proper traction sensing or how to drive offline.

[clairvoyantwolf]

Originally posted by Duke Igthorn:

You do realize that this is exactly how Verstrappen drives in real life and all the morons on the broadcast call it thrilling and risky. Can you blame kids for driving like idiots when they get told on TV how great it is to drive like an idiot?

For as much as I respect Verstappen’s raw pace and don’t respect his race craft. You have to remember that F1 drivers have been racing each other for years or in some cases decades. They know what the other driver will do in most situations. He knows who he can bully and who he can’t.

[noodles]

Originally posted by Jamma003:

Its not everyone, Ive always made a conscious effort to drive fairly, to a fault even. Ill leave a cars space on the inside for someones divebomb even if they never attempted it. Or if I ♥♥♥♥♥♥ a corner up and made a dirty pass Ill slow down and fall behind them again. Some other people also do this that Ive raced with.

But yeah Im 4960-something rated and S safety, and I cant tell the difference between S and B rating which was my lowest.

Yea in my OP I had said "most" drivers but I guess I was just exaggerating. Really I know its just a minority that drive crazy. Like if I see someone has gained several seconds over the course of a lap or two and I haven't made any mistakes I just let them pass by since they are doing better than me. No need for me to hold them up with defending when it just slows us both down.

I suppose what irritates me isn't really people's skill level in driving fast or slow, its just their poor decisions with passing. Like why are people so desperate to go from 10th to 9th when the leaders are 20 or 30 seconds ahead lol. Neither of us are going to catch them anyway so it seems foolish to be so aggressive.

[Moose]

Go drive around the block IRl for 5 min. And you will see that people can not drive. In a game, it is not gonna be any different. As a paramedic and all a racer IRL. Can confirm. There are 80% more dumb people then there are smart, capable people!

[Voodoochile]

Originally posted by Moose:

Go drive around the block IRl for 5 min. And you will see that people can not drive. In a game, it is not gonna be any different. As a paramedic and all a racer IRL. Can confirm. There are 80% more dumb people then there are smart, capable people!

100% The correct take.
Also, the AI in Singleplayer is significantly WORSE than 90% of the lobbies.
Pretty much all the kids from Gamepass have loooong abandoned this game.
I find the Multiplayer much more enjoyable than SP. Too bad the game game has a 50% chance to crash after a 20 minute qualifier...

[EAX]

Originally posted by clairvoyantwolf:

In my personal opinion the dynamic racing line is the worst assist to have ever been added to racing games.

Lots of the behaviors people complain about in multiplayer come from it. Players never learn proper traction sensing or how to drive offline.

Imagine it wouldnt be there.
2D screens have an awful perception of speed, compared to VR.
Training that and geting used to takes alot of time.
On top of that every game literally has different engine unit scales, different FOVs etc.

Then its about Accessability, obviously someone driving with a horrible Xbox Controller will be way worse than someone using a Dualsense with adaptive triggers in GT7 as of an example.
The lack of information is a big issue for those players who did not afford a good wheel.

Or the Mazda Miata literally requires to turn off ESP and TCS in order to squeeze out fast times, i wonder if controller users are even able to feel that tiny difference, yet beeing so massive in laptimes.

On top of that the Developers did not push out any FFB profiles, if you dont know how to setup in order to feel the limits of your car, you are lost already, but if you do, then FM is a very informative game, the best in my opinion.

I also use ideallines in alot of games but thats due to their designs, constantly switching into different cars, not having any or well made VR support etc.. or simply not beeing perfect enough to be enjoyed for longer periods over several weeks.

As of an example whenever i play Wrc2024, with VR, im no longer able to deal with 2D distances, neither do i just hop over and change how im moving my pedals and adjust the steering to fit a more boring racing game.

Because the difference in steering between a rally game and a racing game is that damn big, one game requiring the majority of steering coming of your throttle and brakepedal and the other one you dont ever want your tyres to squeek going over the grip limits, requiring very sensitive steering inputs in bigger rotations on the wheel, depending on track.

Now you could imagine that alot of players switch in between their games, may not invest the same amount of time into one etc.. and on top of that the online experiences are entirely the same at every game, the only thing that drasticly differs is the amount of competition and the difficulty due to higher playercounts.
Because at the end of the day a 1% playerbase is bigger at a game that has several million players monthly, compared to an Iracing niche or any other sim that isnt attractive enough.

[clairvoyantwolf]

Originally posted by EAX:

Imagine it wouldnt be there.
2D screens have an awful perception of speed, compared to VR.
Training that and geting used to takes alot of time.
On top of that every game literally has different engine unit scales, different FOVs etc.

Use trackside objects like in real life.

I used lines until I realized I wasn’t learning the track, I was just driving the line.

Then its about Accessability, obviously someone driving with a horrible Xbox Controller will be way worse than someone using a Dualsense with adaptive triggers in GT7 as of an example.
The lack of information is a big issue for those players who did not afford a good wheel.

Hit brake at 5 marker board, end up too slow. Try 4.75 and still to early. 4.5 is proper distance, use segment times to refine line.

Or the Mazda Miata literally requires to turn off ESP and TCS in order to squeeze out fast times, i wonder if controller users are even able to feel that tiny difference, yet beeing so massive in laptimes.

Historically FM rewarded players who turned off assists with better lap times even if it was unrealistic. Outside of that that’s where testing and segment times come in.

On top of that the Developers did not push out any FFB profiles, if you dont know how to setup in order to feel the limits of your car, you are lost already, but if you do, then FM is a very informative game, the best in my opinion.

I also use ideallines in alot of games but thats due to their designs, constantly switching into different cars, not having any or well made VR support etc.. or simply not beeing perfect enough to be enjoyed for longer periods over several weeks.

As of an example whenever i play Wrc2024, with VR, im no longer able to deal with 2D distances, neither do i just hop over and change how im moving my pedals and adjust the steering to fit a more boring racing game.

Because the difference in steering between a rally game and a racing game is that damn big, one game requiring the majority of steering coming of your throttle and brakepedal and the other one you dont ever want your tyres to squeek going over the grip limits, requiring very sensitive steering inputs in bigger rotations on the wheel, depending on track.

Now you could imagine that alot of players switch in between their games, may not invest the same amount of time into one etc.. and on top of that the online experiences are entirely the same at every game, the only thing that drasticly differs is the amount of competition and the difficulty due to higher playercounts.
Because at the end of the day a 1% playerbase is bigger at a game that has several million players monthly, compared to an Iracing niche or any other sim that isnt attractive enough.

That’s exactly where lines off gets to be the most fun, pure lap one pace…no testing, no practice. Same reason why in real racing changing conditions are the high show of talent and typically produces the most exciting racing.

[EAX]

Ive never setup brake reference points, im a big fan of learning the traveling distances of a car instead, because of car tuning etc, those reference points constantly change and in a giant battle of like 10 cars around me im busy observing the lines of any other car next to me, so i can avoid a divebomb from someone missing his brakepoint etc.

Apart from that those brakepoints may vary also in terms of graphics, like resolution on a screen is a massive factor at how much distance you can see something, which also is alot easier at VR, than on 2D.
Edit: it also includes FOV and aspect ratio, triple screen vs single screen…
There are many factors, personally my biggest complaint about FM is just the lack of VR, because im not willing to purchase 2 more OLED screens and then not ever use them outside of a racegame, let alone the lack of space.
And in terms of immersion i feel like VR is unmatched, the fun factor literally skyrockets for me.
It is so good to have a realistic headturn and makes the whole steering more natural. Or beeing able to just look to the side, watch a mirror that would be missing on a singlescreen setup…

However the thing is that none of those AAA games allow for longer periods of driving one car, like i said above. So it takes alot of time and thats just the whole reason to leave ideallines on, you can ignore it after 2 rounds anyways but its a good fast starting point, if you habe played different games for a longer time and then come back. Its good i think

[clairvoyantwolf]

Hey, I have no power to force lines off on players...it's just my opinion. But I race from cockpit only and use no lines. I personally find it fun to learn a track by picking out reference points and refining the line from there, it's the difference between knowing WHY you drive a certain why than HOW to drive a certain way.

To tie this back to the OP. Race craft is different than just driving fast. IMO drivers focusing on dynamic lines are slower learning it because they don't learn how to take in the environment to make decisions, and more importantly they don't learn how to drive off line, which is required to make any sort of pass into or out of a corner, let alone setting up a car by forcing them to drive a certain way.

Someone up the thread said if a car was seconds faster than them they'd let them pass. No Way. Catching a car is one thing, passing a car is another.

[EAX]

ya well, we will actually never know the reasons as of why one player or another may bumped your car and all of that.
Can only imagine as of why that is, another good example would be the chase cam in FM that i could think of, like it is useless in this game because its laggy and moving too much, makes every car look like its oversteering alot.

But yeah, in terms of if someone is faster, i also let them pass because theres no reason for beeing a horrible driver, playing unfair or even worse, allowing worse drivers to catch up and put yourself in a worse position.

This kinda reminds me about an
simracer that went into Radical racing in reallife and was simply better than an super old racing champ, which had teammates to protect his position by driving extra slow lol.

When beeing solo on track i always accept the better driver, its not really a duel when someone is 1-3 seconds faster per lap, it just shows that you need to practice more often and it gives you the next go to goal.