Can someone explain to me why T6 Veritania can 1 shot tanky builds

[Schulze]

So the map modifiers were area has patches of shocked ground which increases dmg taken by 35%, players are cursed with enfeeble, monsters have 50% chance to avoid ele ailments, monsters reflect 15% ele dmg.

I'm playing physical dmg only jugg and have 4863 total life, 32k armor, 78 cold res, 78 fire res, 77 lightning res, about 20 chaos res, with 5 endurance charges on permanently. For other mitigation I had 26% fortify, 8% reduced ele dmg taken at max end charges, 5% reduced dmg taken from Jugg point, 20% less cold dmg taken from the sapphire flask, and had molten shell manually cast before i got hit. I also have 90% reduced damage from crit hits, 30% from the crit mastery, 30% from armor mastery, and 30% from belt of the deceiver. BTW My topaz flask and sapphire flask both had immunity to shock on them.

When i calc out the dmg I get dealt including what POB says its 11% from cold dmg. the molten shell shield is 20% of the 32k, meaning it totals 6.4k, however only 75% of the hit can go to it for the oneshot, so its only 4.8k from the molten shell. I have 4863 life with that 4.8k shield puts my hp to 9663. The cold dmg hit of 11% after all mitigation, means that one single hit had to have done at least 87.2k dmg. Now why in the hell is a T6 boss fight doing 87.2k dmg in 1 hit?

Now in a T6 yellow map where it only has 1 negative modifier that boosts dmg that affects me (which is completely mitigated by both of my flasks), why are there hits that do 87.2k dmg! that to me seems like just some completely ♥♥♥♥ design, to ensure no matter how tanky you try to be you can always just die in 1 hit. I understand if you are going Jugg and die very quickly but can still react with an insta flask, but dying in 1 hit on HCSSF Scourge, while building tons of layers of defense is just stupid.

https://imgur.com/a/66u5f7m

[Aurelia]

Well, I don't have an answer for this and can't really contribute other than to say I'm glad i'm not just some alien outcrier. Many things in this game are hitting way too hard this last update, far beyond their implied threat range, or there's something else going on here.

I'm just some little Softcore player, who still hasn't defeated L66 Izaro with my level 77, because he was one-shotting me repeatedly and I just gave up. Likewise there's a T1 (or is it T2?) boss that's one-shotting 4.5k hp.

[olstar18]

Welcome to path of exile.

[Schulze]

The only reasoning I can even imagine as to why in a T6 map that a boss can hit that hard is that GGG wants to make it so that even characters with GG gear can die in 1 hit. The problem with that is that if a character is in GG gear, then they arent running T6 maps, they would be running red maps. Along with that if a character is built to take from the ground up around defenses with dmg being put on the backburner, why should that character be dying just as fast as characters that are built to do nothing but dmg with no investment into any sort of defense? That being said that amount of reduction that I had was completely absurd, considering it was only a T6 map with no real dmg modifiers. Also my dmg wasnt great but i did find a crazy good axe in HCSSF and had a 6 link so my POB was about 900k dps.

[AvatarOfWar]

The problem has been known since the beginning of the game. When healing is quick and easy, the only way they can provide any difficulty... EVER... is to completely overwhelm it. If the hit was for 99% of your life, you'd be less than a second away from restoring to full health.

Theres basically only two ways to deal with this problem on their end: allow one-shots, or severely nerf healing. And by "severe", I mean removal of most regeneration, removal of all instantaneous healing, and limiting the number of consumable single-use potions to, lets say, 4, per map.

They made their choice on which direction they wanted to go, 7+ years ago.

So lesson learned: 4.5k hp isn't enough. Try getting it to 6. Or accept that fact that since you can just respawn anyway... is it truly a problem?

[Schulze]

Originally posted by AvatarOfWar:

The problem has been known since the beginning of the game. When healing is quick and easy, the only way they can provide any difficulty... EVER... is to completely overwhelm it. If the hit was for 99% of your life, you'd be less than a second away from restoring to full health.

Theres basically only two ways to deal with this problem on their end: allow one-shots, or severely nerf healing. And by "severe", I mean removal of most regeneration, removal of all instantaneous healing, and limiting the number of consumable single-use potions to, lets say, 4, per map.

They made their choice on which direction they wanted to go, 7+ years ago.

So lesson learned: 4.5k hp isn't enough. Try getting it to 6. Or accept that fact that since you can just respawn anyway... is it truly a problem?

It is a problem I was playing on HCSSF. 4.5k life isnt great but thats not the point the amount of damage mitigation i had was way way more then what 90% of builds have for mitigation to hits. Along with that I fully understand that healing is just to strong, but for HC there's only so much that you can do, since you are limited in gear. Also, IMO if a character has lets just say even half the amount of mitigation I did, but also has 10x the amount of healing I did, I would be fine with that. Since at least a character like that would only need 43.6k dmg from a hit to kill them. At some point you have to think though, should a build that is very tanky even be able to die to this if they can heal it, and my opinion is no if a character can get a crazy amount of mitigation and healing at the cost of dmg and clearspeed, then they should be rewarded with not being able to be killed in 1 hit. While others that invest into nothing but clearspeed should die in 1 hit.

Now im aware that the larger problem is that with GG gear even full damage builds can mitigate as much as I had (if not even more), but at that point a character in GG gear just shouldnt be able to die to lower tier content. In hard core its almost like you have the incentive to run with evasion and dodge, to just roll a dice on if your character lives and dies if it comes to the higher tier content. Which i think is just stupid, since the point of armor is that you are built to tank the hits with mitigation, while evasion has to rely on rng to not get hit, and ES has to rely on having a high total hp pool. all have their own methods to become "tanky", but it seems like no matter what you do you cant stop somethings from killing you in 1 hit.

[melmoth]

In my view, in softcore the game should be able to throw any and all kinds of threats at you (including one-shots), as long as you can maintain a good pace of progress through the game.

It's needing to grind, grind, grind to progress in the end game that's horrible, since the XP loss from deaths can be like taking two steps backwards for every one step forward (or worse).

Without the grind, it wouldn't be a problem. You'd die, suck it up, and just move forward.

As it is, a death means hours and hours (or days even at high levels) of grinding to get back to where you were, progression-wise.

What a waste.

[Aurelia]

I guess people don't understand what SSFHC is.
Solo self-found Hardcore. There is no respawn. You die, that's game over. Start your character over. One-shots should not exist for the sake of existing, they should only exist if you are not built right, and clearly the OP was built right.

The game should also not host different game specs for both SC and HC, it should be the exact same game, or it's not within the spirit of what HC is really about.

[Schulze]

Originally posted by melmoth:

In my view, in softcore the game should be able to throw any and all kinds of threats at you (including one-shots), as long as you can maintain a good pace of progress through the game.

It's needing to grind, grind, grind to progress in the end game that's horrible, since the XP loss from deaths can be like taking two steps backwards for every one step forward (or worse).

Without the grind, it wouldn't be a problem. You'd die, suck it up, and just move forward.

As it is, a death means hours and hours (or days even at high levels) of grinding to get back to where you were, progression-wise.

What a waste.

well deaths in softcore are absolutely meaningless. even at the higher levels of 95+ a death might be a day at most worth of progress loss (thats with a near full exp bar). The issue is that im playing on hardcore solo self found. The issue is that in POE's current state they might as well remove hardcore from the game as there is no point what so ever to play it. Things can 1 shot you when you have insane amounts of damage mitigation, so every character will eventually die no matter what you have or build. This is a problem because on softcore its generally accepted that all characters should be fully built for clearspeed and nothing else. While in hardcore you have to balance both clearspeed and your damage mitigations, to a much higher extent. which comes around to the same issue that if you even somehow have every form of mitigation possible in the entire game you would still die in 1 hit, because things can hit way to hard for no good reason, other then saying its a reset button.

[Schulze]

Originally posted by Luminaire:

I guess people don't understand what SSFHC is.
Solo self-found Hardcore. There is no respawn. You die, that's game over. Start your character over. One-shots should not exist for the sake of existing, they should only exist if you are not built right, and clearly the OP was built right.

The game should also not host different game specs for both SC and HC, it should be the exact same game, or it's not within the spirit of what HC is really about.

thats exactly what im saying! I cant understand what possible other forms of mitigation i could possibly get, since I had nearly every max hp point on the tree for duelist and maurader (was working on the scion life wheel for the last few points). Also i had rerolled the map about 8 times to get 1 map modifier i could fully mitigate. For me I think im going to take a small break from the league, since it seems like no matter what i do i cant keep a character alive in HCSSF. I can build all forms of defense hp, and spam rerolls on maps until it has nothing that hurts me at all.

[Piefmeister]

you probably missed some mod on the map or sth. who knows

[Soeur Sourire]

Originally posted by Luminaire:

I guess people don't understand what SSFHC is.
Solo self-found Hardcore. There is no respawn. You die, that's game over. Start your character over. One-shots should not exist for the sake of existing, they should only exist if you are not built right, and clearly the OP was built right.

The game should also not host different game specs for both SC and HC, it should be the exact same game, or it's not within the spirit of what HC is really about.

As a hardcore player from time to time, I will have to wholeheartedly disagree. One shot mechanics are fine if they are supported with hint ( visual or sound) No matter how tanky you build, these specific mechanics should 100% be one shot.

[Schulze]

Originally posted by easy peasy:

you probably missed some mod on the map or sth. who knows

I didnt i took a screen shot before exiting. I specifically made sure that there was no map mods that could possibly hurt my character in any way. so i rerolled the map 8 times, and decided that shock ground is fine since i had 2 flasks with immune to shock on them.

https://imgur.com/a/66u5f7m

[Schulze]

Originally posted by Sheriff Hardon:

Originally posted by Luminaire:

I guess people don't understand what SSFHC is.
Solo self-found Hardcore. There is no respawn. You die, that's game over. Start your character over. One-shots should not exist for the sake of existing, they should only exist if you are not built right, and clearly the OP was built right.

The game should also not host different game specs for both SC and HC, it should be the exact same game, or it's not within the spirit of what HC is really about.

As a hardcore player from time to time, I will have to wholeheartedly disagree. One shot mechanics are fine if they are supported with hint ( visual or sound) No matter how tanky you build, these specific mechanics should 100% be one shot.

I dont know what else to say other then i disagree. If we both run a character using the exact same skill, but i take 11% dmg from the hit, and about 12% from a crit (of the original dmg), while you take 25% dmg from the hit and 50% from a crit (50% of the original dmg), then my character at that point is over 4x tankier vs crits and 2x tankier vs normal hits. If you have that much mitigation and are putting tons of points into life on tree (my passive tree is over 220%, however at that point in time i only had about ~195%) at the cost of damage, then you should get a trade off for it. The trade off should be that hits that would kill another character that is squishy in 1 hit shouldnt kill you in 1 hit. That being said I do somewhat agree if there is a visual que on the screen i dont mind hits like that doing significantly more dmg. however there wasnt a visual que for the dmg, there might have been an audio que for it but when i play path i listen to music so i prob didnt hear it (i assume most people have music or something playing in the background), but the dmg regardless is just way to high, if it can one shot a full tank character,

[Schulze]

After thinking about it for a bit, i think the real reason as to why GGG wants hits like that to kill even the tankiest characters in the game in 1 hit is so that people cant be tanks and abuse the logout macro (which i still refuse to use, since i think its stupid). That being said if that is the case, then why in the hell would anyone balance a game around a third party software that should be considered abuse of the game system?

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

It's because GGG doesn't actually know how to challenge players and balance a game. Instead of bringing healing and damage mitigation in line with damage from mobs, they simply swing the pendulum to the extremes of either you're completely invulnerable, or you're dead instantly.

There's no in-between, there's no back and forth of losing some health, trying to heal through it while doing some damage. There's no 'ebb and flow' to combat. It's literally, 100%, just DPS until you die to a one-shot.

Because GGG doesn't understand how to do anything else. They don't know how to balance a game.