Immortal call bad?

[Dionysus 🐭]

Looking on the wiki it's basically a 25% damage reduction for a couple seconds right? How is that better (or even as good) as molten shell or steelskin?

[The_Driver]

Originally posted by aaronth07:

Looking on the wiki it's basically a 25% damage reduction for a couple seconds right? How is that better (or even as good) as molten shell or steelskin?

Imagine a character with 0 base Armour (e.g. because its Evasion-based). How good is Molten Shell in that case? It grants like 858 Armour at lvl 20 with

Buff can take Damage equal to 20% of your Armour

then equaling 858*0.2=171 damage reduction. That is over the entire buff duration and might not even apply fully for a single hit.

Compare that to a level 1 IC... 25% less phys damage taken..., so to mitigate 171 damage or more, you'd need a total amount of damage during the buff duration of about 171*4 = 684 damage. As soon as you take more than 684 phys/ele damage in the buff duration, the lvl 1 IC mitigates more than the lvl 20 molten shell can.

[Dionysus 🐭]

Originally posted by The_Driver:

Originally posted by aaronth07:

Looking on the wiki it's basically a 25% damage reduction for a couple seconds right? How is that better (or even as good) as molten shell or steelskin?

Imagine a character with 0 base Armour (e.g. because its Evasion-based). How good is Molten Shell in that case? It grants like 858 Armour at lvl 20 with

Buff can take Damage equal to 20% of your Armour

then equaling 858*0.2=171 damage reduction. That is over the entire buff duration and might not even apply fully for a single hit.

Compare that to a level 1 IC... 25% less phys damage taken..., so to mitigate 171 damage or more, you'd need a total amount of damage during the buff duration of about 171*4 = 684 damage. As soon as you take more than 684 phys/ele damage in the buff duration, the lvl 1 IC mitigates more than the lvl 20 molten shell can.

I see, so immortal call would be better for witch than molten shell? Or would you recommend steelskin?

[Zelph]

Originally posted by aaronth07:

Originally posted by The_Driver:

Imagine a character with 0 base Armour (e.g. because its Evasion-based). How good is Molten Shell in that case? It grants like 858 Armour at lvl 20 with

then equaling 858*0.2=171 damage reduction. That is over the entire buff duration and might not even apply fully for a single hit.

Compare that to a level 1 IC... 25% less phys damage taken..., so to mitigate 171 damage or more, you'd need a total amount of damage during the buff duration of about 171*4 = 684 damage. As soon as you take more than 684 phys/ele damage in the buff duration, the lvl 1 IC mitigates more than the lvl 20 molten shell can.

I see, so immortal call would be better for witch than molten shell? Or would you recommend steelskin?

What type of character are you building?

[The_Driver]

Originally posted by aaronth07:

I see, so immortal call would be better for witch than molten shell? Or would you recommend steelskin?

It's not based on character class but on which other defenses you use/how you scale the defenses. I don't give a general recommendation in that regard. I just wanted to show how easy it is to show cases where IC is better, not calculate break points.

[solaris32]

Immortal Call is good on characters with little to no armor, and still can be even on characters who do have armor thanks to a cool ability called Cast When Damage Taken. With those 2 linked it's a very nice automatic defense system for if something gets hairy. Combine it with increased duration for better effect. Put it on a 4 link you can also add a golem summon to it so that your golem is constantly being resummoned for you. Pretty nice considering minions don't last long on non-minion builds. Keep in mind that the higher the gem level of CWDT the more damage is needed for you to take before it activates, so may not want it too high.

[Eskidead]

What about if you have high armour and so many Endurance charges running all the time that you are at 90% Dmg reduction? Would Immortal Call (or anything else for that matter) be of any help?

[RPG Holding Shark Riding Raptor]

Originally posted by Eskidead:

What about if you have high armour and so many Endurance charges running all the time that you are at 90% Dmg reduction? Would Immortal Call (or anything else for that matter) be of any help?

Given the fact that each Endurance Charge only gives a 4% damage reduction while IC would give 15% reduction per Charge consumed (resulting a total of 81% Physical Damage reduction with a level 1 IC and 5 Charges) I'd say yes, IC would be helpfull. Especially if you can continue producing Charges in a fast rate.

[solaris32]

Originally posted by Eskidead:

What about if you have high armour and so many Endurance charges running all the time that you are at 90% Dmg reduction? Would Immortal Call (or anything else for that matter) be of any help?

Yes. Some enemies do so much damage they can still 1 shot you even then. Guard skills help.

[Xilo The Odd]

low armor? IC, lots of armor? MS or steelskin. its that simple. they are guard skill options that fit certain defensive measures you have in place. no one has everything.

[Rinko]

Originally posted by Eskidead:

What about if you have high armour and so many Endurance charges running all the time that you are at 90% Dmg reduction? Would Immortal Call (or anything else for that matter) be of any help?

You have to get your charges again if IC eats them, which isn't always a good idea even on a jugg. Molten shell is really good for armour characters and vaal molten shell is one of the most broken things in the game at the moment.

[Eskidead]

Originally posted by Rinko:

You have to get your charges again if IC eats them, which isn't always a good idea even on a jugg. Molten shell is really good for armour characters and vaal molten shell is one of the most broken things in the game at the moment.

Hmm, some time ago I tried using Vaal MS, but I have no idea how that worked compared to the regular MS. Or if it worked at all, I couldn't really tell.

[Rinko]

Originally posted by Eskidead:

Hmm, some time ago I tried using Vaal MS, but I have no idea how that worked compared to the regular MS. Or if it worked at all, I couldn't really tell.

Vaal skills can't be triggered, you have to manual cast them. VMS reduces damage from hits by 80% while its active, you need to kill monsters to charge it. The amount of damage it can absorb is based on your armour, a granite flask can help juice this up. It's a good idea to pop it before doing metamorphs or whenever something dangerous pops up (like a bunch of rare legion mobs).

[Eskidead]

Oh I know how Vaal gems work with the souls to charge and all. It was just the mechanic for the VMS contra regular MS. I tried using it before going against Argus in lvl68 labyrinth. I was still slaughtered in 1½ seconds, lol.