SAV 20.12.48 broke rank III

[Thunder]

So I'm playing with my friend who still at BR4.0 and it's full of these tanks. I've found more than 10 in a single match and they're incredibly unballanced. If Gaijin is expecting to new players to stay, this is literally a game killer. You can't leave the spawn without getting sniped by 20 SAVs hidding on a hill. This tank should be at least BR5.7 or so, they're too OP

[Space Marine]

SAV is another example of a broken vehicle that gaijin won't touch because "it's balanced" AKA it costs golden eagles and is rare, so there's no need to touch it.
Plus the users abusing low tiers defend it with their lives, it's the KV-1B/E story all over again. Broken vehicle at Broken BRs breaking the Game

[50Fathoms]

I don´t have any problems with Savs. Even if it has some advantages I killed a lot recently. In the end it´s the player, not the vehicle. And a lot of these players just suck at it.

[30 лет :D]

it's aphe has low pen and it's unreliable even at 3.7
after 7 shots you are a sitting duck
no turret
open top can be oneshotted by anything reserve planes included
yeah no thanks I had this "tank" for a while since my friend bought it for me on my last birthday and it's ass to play at 3.7
I'd rather take a normal medium with 8.7 reload than this thing

[Space Marine]

Originally posted by Потанкуем?:

it's aphe has low pen and it's unreliable even at 3.7
after 7 shots you are a sitting duck
no turret
open top can be oneshotted by anything reserve planes included
yeah no thanks I had this "tank" for a while since my friend bought it for me on my last birthday and it's ass to play at 3.7
I'd rather take a normal medium with 8.7 reload than this thing

Following that logic, then every open top TD around 5.3 to 5.7 should 3.7 as well.
Since they can be one shotted, planes can kill them easily etc
The SAV is a broken vehicle, you don't need armor when your gun shoots 7 meatballs on someone's face in a row

[50Fathoms]

oddbawz posted a video about it and now every low level player thinks, the sav is any good. In fact, it is. But only in skilled hands. For me it was a lot of easy kills recently. Most Swedish teams I´ve seen, lost the game.

[Cop Unit 12]

I decided to look at the SAV in test drive since I'm too poor to try and buy it. From what I can see it has a ton of a flaws regarding it's reload time. Sure at the start you got 7 good rounds for 3.7 but once you fire all of them, well it's gona take a bit to reload them. The ammo itself is not the best but it's not bad either. It's about average for that BR I would say. In skilled hands and with a little luck it's a really powerful vehicle but so is something like the KV2.

I do agree that its a bit below the BR it should be at but not by a lot. Bump the ready rack reload a bit and it will be fine at 4.7.

[30 лет :D]

Originally posted by Speed Racist:

Originally posted by Потанкуем?:

it's aphe has low pen and it's unreliable even at 3.7
after 7 shots you are a sitting duck
no turret
open top can be oneshotted by anything reserve planes included
yeah no thanks I had this "tank" for a while since my friend bought it for me on my last birthday and it's ass to play at 3.7
I'd rather take a normal medium with 8.7 reload than this thing

Following that logic, then every open top TD around 5.3 to 5.7 should 3.7 as well.
Since they can be one shotted, planes can kill them easily etc
The SAV is a broken vehicle, you don't need armor when your gun shoots 7 meatballs on someone's face in a row

what 7 shots will do when you aim at 11 kills?
not to mention if you count every shot as 1 hit kill which means you need to basically throw 20 7 times in a row
keep in mind some shots can be non pen or only kill half of crew or even less and they mostly works if you shoot from the side but you know who can flank faster and don't have to reload for 2 minutes after 7 shots? low tier puma
after those supa dupa 1.2 seconds reload rate it will drop down to 1 shot per minute if you don't make every shot count
so no it's not op at the slightest
we already had some quastionable br placements like with E.B.R 1954 there is no need to repeat this mistake

[Space Marine]

Originally posted by Потанкуем?:

Originally posted by Speed Racist:

Following that logic, then every open top TD around 5.3 to 5.7 should 3.7 as well.
Since they can be one shotted, planes can kill them easily etc
The SAV is a broken vehicle, you don't need armor when your gun shoots 7 meatballs on someone's face in a row

what 7 shots will do when you aim at 11 kills?
not to mention if you count every shot as 1 hit kill which means you need to basically throw 20 7 times in a row
keep in mind some shots can be non pen or only kill half of crew or even less and they mostly works if you shoot from the side but you know who can flank faster and don't have to reload for 2 minutes after 7 shots? low tier puma
after those supa dupa 1.2 seconds reload rate it will drop down to 1 shot per minute if you don't make every shot count
so no it's not op at the slightest
we already had some quastionable br placements like with E.B.R 1954 there is no need to repeat this mistake

Who the hell aims at 11 kills per match? The average is 4-6 kills, along a few assists/caps.
When the SAV does pen a vehicle, you WILL kill the entire crew, that thing has enough explosive filler to delete a crew, and most vehicles at around its BR doesn't have much front armor and none of side armor, which is what you'll aim at most of the times, it's not a brawling vehicle, it's a flank and spank vehicle.
Its autoloader requires fire discipline, you can't throw away your entire ammo onto the same target.
The SAV is broken, it ruins low tier matches everytime it's on sale.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Chaoslord 87:

Experience which many of us simply don´t have, me included.

Doesn't stop it from being broken in the hands of players that do.

Originally posted by Til_Dovre_Faller:

It has 95mm of penetration, it is old, it has low protection, 7.62 or 8x57 can kill it

If it was a problem, i believe it would be moved ip or down in br 2 years ago hehe

The KV-1B (or E) is a problem since its literally just a better version of a tank that is a higher BR than it, but that hasn't changed either. Just because it hasn't changed, that offers no indication that it belongs where it is. That's just bad logic there. Not every problem in the game gets fixed, many persist for a long time or even indefinitely.

Originally posted by 256_Swerve:

That's the thing, the pen on the aphe round isn't enough to reliably fight head on,

If that pen was only about 65mm, I'd agree with you. 95mm is plenty for this BR. That isn't that much different than the APHE of the US 75mm gun and that gun works fine into higher BRs, still being able to do some work on the Jumbo. Sure, the Jumbo has armor and a stabilizer to use it at that BR, but a BR of 4.7 would be fine for the SAV. That autoloader makes all the difference.

Originally posted by Cop Unit 12:

I do agree that its a bit below the BR it should be at but not by a lot. Bump the ready rack reload a bit and it will be fine at 4.7.

Precisely.

Originally posted by Потанкуем?:

Originally posted by Speed Racist:

Following that logic, then every open top TD around 5.3 to 5.7 should 3.7 as well.
Since they can be one shotted, planes can kill them easily etc
The SAV is a broken vehicle, you don't need armor when your gun shoots 7 meatballs on someone's face in a row

what 7 shots will do when you aim at 11 kills?

At this tier? I do easily. I sometimes get 11 kills on just aircraft alone. Typically though, between ground and air kills, 11 is a good average for me.

Originally posted by Потанкуем?:

mostly works if you shoot from the side but you know who can flank faster and don't have to reload for 2 minutes after 7 shots? low tier puma
after those supa dupa 1.2 seconds reload rate it will drop down to 1 shot per minute if you don't make every shot count
so no it's not op at the slightest

Thing is, if you get a good flank, those first 7 shots can equal 7 kills. Even if it doesn't, 3-4 kills isn't unfeasible to achieve and that's plenty to put you into planes and tanks for the rest of the match. 4-6 kills is the expected average potentially and this thing can easily get you that minimum average before the long reload comes into play. If you do that good flank, get 3-4 kills rapidly, you've potentially already tipped the entire battle in your team's favor. It can lead to a snowball pretty fast. This is just considering one of them, when there could be many on one team.

It needs a BR change. 4.7 would be fine. People put too much weight on how vehicles perform against other vehicles only from the front. That doesn't matter. Frontal engagements aren't the only kind and some vehicles excel at fighting from the flanks only.

[Chaoslink]

I mean, the reason its OP at its tier, OddbawZ shows in the intro of the video. Panther followed immediately by the T-34. Then he pulls of x4 Target Destroyed at the start of the next match. I get it, not every player can pull that off. However, simply that it *can* do that is reason enough. You're not punished for making a bad shot either. That kind of kill speed stops a player from having the ability to react to an ally that dies near them. All it takes is one good flank position. Boom, you wipe the enemy before they react. Tanks can't react fast enough because of the physical limitations of their turret traverse and all that. With such fast follow up shots, the thing is just broken. If the autoloader had more like a 3.6 second fire rate, things would be massively different. 1.2 seconds? No. Get outta here. 4.7 is fine for this thing.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Потанкуем?:

don't have to reload for 2 minutes after 7 shots?

Also, loading a shot into the autoloader only takes about 14 seconds. You don't need a full rack of 2 minutes before you can fight again. It takes less than 30 seconds to have two shots loaded for a quick follow up after the first and that's all it takes to make it OP. That ability to fire a follow up shot after 1.2 seconds. That's what is OP. That it gets 7 shots is just icing on the cake. Even just two shots per "magazine" would be too much. Again, it removes any punishment for a rushed shot that would give any other tank time to react and retaliate. 1.2s is not enough reaction time to react to a bad shot fired at you.

OddbawZ shows this so many times in his video. He gets a side shot on another TD, but whiffs the shot by hitting the track or something, then follows up with a second side shot kill while the enemy is trying to turn to face him, but their reaction opportunity is so limited, his second shot still gets flat side armor to shoot. That's what is OP here. Any other tank but the SAV in that situation would have to wait for reload and their enemy would have all the time they need to at least get their armor facing the enemy and have a chance to fight back. The SAV doesn't suffer this drawback. That's massive.

[256_Swerve]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by 256_Swerve:

That's the thing, the pen on the aphe round isn't enough to reliably fight head on,

If that pen was only about 65mm, I'd agree with you. 95mm is plenty for this BR. That isn't that much different than the APHE of the US 75mm gun and that gun works fine into higher BRs, still being able to do some work on the Jumbo. Sure, the Jumbo has armor and a stabilizer to use it at that BR, but a BR of 4.7 would be fine for the SAV. That autoloader makes all the difference.

I'm speaking from experience, several hundred games using this vehicle. Whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant to me unless you have similar exposure.

When you factor in distance, armour slope and volumetrics (it's a big shell) the pen is not reliable front on against frequent enemies e.g. T-34, KV-1 and Shermans. You have it a bit easier against Panzer IV if you pick your shot correctly.

But that's not really the point, as you 'should' be flanking anyway in this.

When this tank last came on sale, it was still rank II. Nobody really cared. Now it's rank III it's different. It's a more attractive vehicle overall and rightly so, it's powerful when used correctly and it's now at a rank where it has much more utility.

BUT.... because of the rank increase, and the inevitable uptick in user numbers, enough people will do very well in it and therefore some sort of BR increase is highly likely. Whether that would be truly deserved or not, I don't know and TBH I'm not bothered as it will have the same set of strengths/weaknesses fighting at any nearby BR

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by 256_Swerve:

I'm speaking from experience, several hundred games using this vehicle. Whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant to me unless you have similar exposure.

I mean, I don't have that similar exposure. I've never used the SAV.

The point being, front-on isn't relevant much. Even if you miss the first shot because of volumetric, you have a follow up shot every 1.2s to make the right shot. Shouldn't take more than one shot to dial it in. Even so, front on isn't how this thing should be used. Side on, the penetration isn't relevant. 95mm is more than enough from the side. That's my point. 95mm of pen is more than good enough at 3.7 and is still very workable at 4.7 and can even find use at 5.7 as long as you avoid front on engagements.

I don't need to use it to know that.

[ArrowViper]

Originally posted by Thunder:

So I'm playing with my friend who still at BR4.0 and it's full of these tanks. I've found more than 10 in a single match and they're incredibly unballanced. If Gaijin is expecting to new players to stay, this is literally a game killer. You can't leave the spawn without getting sniped by 20 SAVs hidding on a hill. This tank should be at least BR5.7 or so, they're too OP

Idk what Gaijin expected...it's possibly the most broken vehicle ingame...surpasing the likes of current 2A7V or Ikv91 before BR changes...

[Space Marine]

Originally posted by ArrowViper:

Originally posted by Thunder:

So I'm playing with my friend who still at BR4.0 and it's full of these tanks. I've found more than 10 in a single match and they're incredibly unballanced. If Gaijin is expecting to new players to stay, this is literally a game killer. You can't leave the spawn without getting sniped by 20 SAVs hidding on a hill. This tank should be at least BR5.7 or so, they're too OP

Idk what Gaijin expected...it's possibly the most broken vehicle ingame...surpasing the likes of current 2A7V or Ikv91 before BR changes...

SAV broke 4.0 BR, it's as simple as that, it's literally unplayable right now because of the absurd amount of SAVs owning the game.
Hell, SAV needs to be uptiered or nerfed asap, this can't go on, stop protecting Broken Premiums, Gaijin.