Time to Unnerf the T114

[Bu3(SW)]

This little tank use to be great but went through so many nerfs I do not remember it's initial state anymore.

It can be a great ambush tank but why was it nerfed to begin with and why so much. We have things like the USH or automat or the ontos that are very comparable and are not nerfed with a (relative) slow reload rate and only 3 rounds ready to fire.

It has no armor or hope to live if spotted by anything at all. It relied on speed and the ability to fire fast and run away. Some time ago Gaijin took away its fast firing ability. My buddy says it use to have a 10 round mag. I am not sure I remember such a thing but I do remember it firing really fast and reloading fast.

[Legion]

The only nerfs it's had are when they changed it from a SPG to a light vehicle and moved it upto 7.3. It's never had a 10 round magazine, it's always had a 3 round mag and it reloads and fires just as fast as it always has imo..

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by Legion:

The only nerfs it's had are when they changed it from a SPG to a light vehicle and moved it upto 7.3. It's never had a 10 round magazine, it's always had a 3 round mag and it reloads and fires just as fast as it always has imo..

Nope the fire rate and ammo type were changed.

[ErickaUnlimited]

It has never had a 10-round magazine.

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by ErickaUnlimited:

It has never had a 10-round magazine.

Thank you for confirming that but it did shoot much faster and had different ammo.

[Legion]

Originally posted by Abinadi:

Originally posted by Legion:

The only nerfs it's had are when they changed it from a SPG to a light vehicle and moved it upto 7.3. It's never had a 10 round magazine, it's always had a 3 round mag and it reloads and fires just as fast as it always has imo..

Nope the fire rate and ammo type were changed.

Oh I get it now, you want the old reloading system before ready racks where added to the game where it would somehow reload it's entire magazine in 10 seconds instead of 1 at a time like it is now, safe to say that isn't going to happen lol. It's ammo change gave it it's historically correct ammo giving it a extra 100mm of penetration btw, so you want it nerfed?

It still fires just as fast as it always has, time stamped the video at 2 rapid shots - https://youtu.be/-B5F0EEARo4?t=136.

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by Legion:

Originally posted by Abinadi:

Nope the fire rate and ammo type were changed.

Oh I get it now, you want the old reloading system before ready racks where added to the game where it would somehow reload it's entire magazine in 10 seconds instead of 1 at a time like it is now, safe to say that isn't going to happen lol. It's ammo change gave it it's historically correct ammo giving it a extra 100mm of penetration btw, so you want it nerfed?

It still fires just as fast as it always has, time stamped the video at 2 rapid shots - https://youtu.be/-B5F0EEARo4?t=136.

It doesn't reliably pen now so what would the difference be.

[Legion]

Originally posted by Abinadi:

It doesn't reliably pen now so what would the difference be.

It never really reliably penetrated if you got a bad hit from day one, and since volumetric ammunition was added to the game shot placement counts even more so nowadays...so skill issues?.../s.

I've taken it out for a spin a few times recently and it's just as effective as it's always been imo, even earned a nuke with it after a couple of matches getting used to it again after not playing as the US for months lol.

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by Legion:

Originally posted by Abinadi:

It doesn't reliably pen now so what would the difference be.

It never really reliably penetrated if you got a bad hit from day one, and since volumetric ammunition was added to the game shot placement counts even more so nowadays...so skill issues?.../s.

I've taken it out for a spin a few times recently and it's just as effective as it's always been imo, even earned a nuke with it after a couple of matches getting used to it again after not playing as the US for months lol.

Hitting on the side of a tank with no angle same tank will result in a lot of failures. The round is random as heck. It is not a skill issue and that is such a tiered excuse from lame trolls for many of the issues that plague war thunder.

[Shyue Chou]

I saw one last night and it was rampaging through the streets, decimating my team until I put a stop to it. I must admit that I fear it though my vehicles are seldom a victim of the T114 as I watch my flanks and rear.

[Sobolewski]

The T114 is perfectly fine as is at 7.3. Maybe even 7.7 material. It's like an M50 Ontos, but with virtually none of the cons : your profile is truly small with no massive attention-grabbing superstructure, your shots always come out centralized from your sight because you only have a single barrel within a single turret, you have ACTUAL 360 degree gun rotation, and you're even smaller and faster so it's that much easier to get to a good spot and ambush someone while completely covered in bushes.

The only "cons", if you will, are your gun elevation is fairly limited which limits your maximum range of engagement to within 1km or so (why would you even use recoilless rifle grenades to engage past 1km anyways? the velocity and dispersion are terrible at that range), and you don't get to fire 6 shots in a row and have a long reload in exchange for a far easier to manage system of 3 almost consecutive ready-rack shots with more manageable reload outside of the ready rack.


We should be instead arguing in favor of putting the USH-405 and Raketenautomat to 8.0 and 8.3 instead, and whoever defends their current state to a gruesome death. Not restoring the once extremely overpowered T114's reign of terror just because there's now new overpowered vehicles for it to compete with at its new, balanced BR.

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by Sobolewski:

The T114 is perfectly fine as is at 7.3. Maybe even 7.7 material. It's like an M50 Ontos, but with virtually none of the cons : your profile is truly small with no massive attention-grabbing superstructure, your shots always come out centralized from your sight because you only have a single barrel within a single turret, you have ACTUAL 360 degree gun rotation, and you're even smaller and faster so it's that much easier to get to a good spot and ambush someone while completely covered in bushes.

The only "cons", if you will, are your gun elevation is fairly limited which limits your maximum range of engagement to within 1km or so (why would you even use recoilless rifle grenades to engage past 1km anyways? the velocity and dispersion are terrible at that range), and you don't get to fire 6 shots in a row and have a long reload in exchange for a far easier to manage system of 3 almost consecutive ready-rack shots with more manageable reload outside of the ready rack.


We should be instead arguing in favor of putting the USH-405 and Raketenautomat to 8.0 and 8.3 instead, and whoever defends their current state to a gruesome death. Not restoring the once extremely overpowered T114's reign of terror just because there's now new overpowered vehicles for it to compete with at its new, balanced BR.

None of the cons? It doesn't shoot as fast and doesn't have to deal with the horrible trajectory. Every comparable vehicle is firing at a way higher fire rate and none have to deal with this horrible trajectory. On top of that why does it take so long to adjust the range?

[Aegis270]

Originally posted by Abinadi:

Originally posted by Sobolewski:

The T114 is perfectly fine as is at 7.3. Maybe even 7.7 material. It's like an M50 Ontos, but with virtually none of the cons : your profile is truly small with no massive attention-grabbing superstructure, your shots always come out centralized from your sight because you only have a single barrel within a single turret, you have ACTUAL 360 degree gun rotation, and you're even smaller and faster so it's that much easier to get to a good spot and ambush someone while completely covered in bushes.

The only "cons", if you will, are your gun elevation is fairly limited which limits your maximum range of engagement to within 1km or so (why would you even use recoilless rifle grenades to engage past 1km anyways? the velocity and dispersion are terrible at that range), and you don't get to fire 6 shots in a row and have a long reload in exchange for a far easier to manage system of 3 almost consecutive ready-rack shots with more manageable reload outside of the ready rack.


We should be instead arguing in favor of putting the USH-405 and Raketenautomat to 8.0 and 8.3 instead, and whoever defends their current state to a gruesome death. Not restoring the once extremely overpowered T114's reign of terror just because there's now new overpowered vehicles for it to compete with at its new, balanced BR.

None of the cons? It doesn't shoot as fast and doesn't have to deal with the horrible trajectory. Every comparable vehicle is firing at a way higher fire rate and none have to deal with this horrible trajectory. On top of that why does it take so long to adjust the range?

You do realize the T114 has precisely the same gun, with precisely the same ammo, and thus the exact same ballistics, as the various comparable vehicles like the Ontos, Type 60, FIAT 6614, etc, right? And that the T114 can fire it's 4 autoloaded shots slightly faster than the various double barreled 106mm to fire their two, reload, and fire two again.

Additionally, the sustained ROF is effectively higher, being that you can theoretically kill someone every 3.2 seconds with well aimed rounds. The various other double 106mm armed vehicles can kill one, fumble with the gun controls to get a kill on a second after a while, and then have to sit and reload without being pushed for 13 seconds. That's on top of the other advantages Sobolewski already laid out.

Unless by comparable tanks you're referring to the Raketenautomatic and USH, which are bad comparisons and should on their own merits be moved up in BR.

Also note that the coaxial gun is ballistically matched with the main gun, so all you need to do to range in a target is tap fire the coax until you get a hit, and then fire. No need to even bother with manually zeroing the sight, just use the coax to adjust your aim, then pull the trigger.

[Druckform | INSOMNIAC 3D]

Originally posted by Aegis270:

Originally posted by Abinadi:

None of the cons? It doesn't shoot as fast and doesn't have to deal with the horrible trajectory. Every comparable vehicle is firing at a way higher fire rate and none have to deal with this horrible trajectory. On top of that why does it take so long to adjust the range?

You do realize the T114 has precisely the same gun, with precisely the same ammo, and thus the exact same ballistics, as the various comparable vehicles like the Ontos, Type 60, FIAT 6614, etc, right? And that the T114 can fire it's 4 autoloaded shots slightly faster than the various double barreled 106mm to fire their two, reload, and fire two again.

Additionally, the sustained ROF is effectively higher, being that you can theoretically kill someone every 3.2 seconds with well aimed rounds. The various other double 106mm armed vehicles can kill one, fumble with the gun controls to get a kill on a second after a while, and then have to sit and reload without being pushed for 13 seconds. That's on top of the other advantages Sobolewski already laid out.

Unless by comparable tanks you're referring to the Raketenautomatic and USH, which are bad comparisons and should on their own merits be moved up in BR.

Also note that the coaxial gun is ballistically matched with the main gun, so all you need to do to range in a target is tap fire the coax until you get a hit, and then fire. No need to even bother with manually zeroing the sight, just use the coax to adjust your aim, then pull the trigger.

did they fix the coaxial gun on the t114? i remember a couple years ago they nerfed the AT grenades velocity but didnt correct the mg, so youd mg a target then the shell would fall a good couple hundred meters short

[FizzyElf]

Originally posted by Piggy INSOMNIAC 3D:

Originally posted by Aegis270:

You do realize the T114 has precisely the same gun, with precisely the same ammo, and thus the exact same ballistics, as the various comparable vehicles like the Ontos, Type 60, FIAT 6614, etc, right? And that the T114 can fire it's 4 autoloaded shots slightly faster than the various double barreled 106mm to fire their two, reload, and fire two again.

Additionally, the sustained ROF is effectively higher, being that you can theoretically kill someone every 3.2 seconds with well aimed rounds. The various other double 106mm armed vehicles can kill one, fumble with the gun controls to get a kill on a second after a while, and then have to sit and reload without being pushed for 13 seconds. That's on top of the other advantages Sobolewski already laid out.

Unless by comparable tanks you're referring to the Raketenautomatic and USH, which are bad comparisons and should on their own merits be moved up in BR.

Also note that the coaxial gun is ballistically matched with the main gun, so all you need to do to range in a target is tap fire the coax until you get a hit, and then fire. No need to even bother with manually zeroing the sight, just use the coax to adjust your aim, then pull the trigger.

did they fix the coaxial gun on the t114? i remember a couple years ago they nerfed the AT grenades velocity but didnt correct the mg, so youd mg a target then the shell would fall a good couple hundred meters short

Yep it is fixed up to ~1000 meter's after which point you need to eyeball the drop off offset.

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by Aegis270:

You do realize the T114 has precisely the same gun, with precisely the same ammo, and thus the exact same ballistics,

You might want to give it a try it is not the same anymore. Well same gun sure but not the ballistic characteristics. Shoot it and you will see real fast how much the trajectory on the T114 curves compared to the m50. It doesn't seem like much but the T114 is 1m/s slower velocity and for that the trajectory is greatly impacted. T114 has a slightly heavier HEAT grenade.

Originally posted by Aegis270:

as the various comparable vehicles like the Ontos, Type 60, FIAT 6614, etc, right? And that the T114 can fire it's 4 autoloaded shots slightly faster than the various double barreled 106mm to fire their two, reload, and fire two again. Additionally, the sustained ROF is effectively higher, being that you can theoretically kill someone every 3.2 seconds with well aimed rounds. The various other double 106mm armed vehicles can kill one, fumble with the gun controls to get a kill on a second after a while, and then have to sit and reload without being pushed for 13 seconds. That's on top of the other advantages Sobolewski already laid out.

The ontos can fire all 6 rounds in 3 seconds. For vehicle types that are ambush vehicles sustained fire is irrelevant burst fire is more significant. These types of vehicles should never be trading shots but should shoot and scoot. Followup shot speed is crucial to that type of vehicles survival. If the T114 was a main battle tank or even a normal light tank with some light armor it might be more viable to have the reload speed it has. However for a tank that can die from even light machine gun fire and has no hope for survival once spotted burst damage is king. It's curretn reload is not horrible but not competitive for hte type of tank it is.

Originally posted by Aegis270:

Unless by comparable tanks you're referring to the Raketenautomatic and USH, which are bad comparisons and should on their own merits be moved up in BR.

I think they are good comparisons

Originally posted by Aegis270:

Also note that the coaxial gun is ballistically matched with the main gun, so all you need to do to range in a target is tap fire the coax until you get a hit, and then fire. No need to even bother with manually zeroing the sight, just use the coax to adjust your aim, then pull the trigger.

This is a well meaning comment that keeps getting repeated but only a lunatic is going to use that mg giving away their position. The fire rate of the main gun can not save you if you do not have the element of surprise.