p47s or p51s

[Master Bruin]

Which ones are better?

[Brasky]

The P-47 is probably the easier plane to fly in War Thunder thanks to its lower BR. However, both planes in real life were high altitude long range escort planes. A high altitude long range escort plane does not transfer that well to War Thunder where most of the combat takes place at low altitudes. The P-51 was a great plane in real life because it filled its role perfectly--long range high altitude escort. Certainly you can use either the P-51 and P-47 in War Thunder and be successful, but it takes more patience than low altitude turn fighters (of which the Russians have many). If people actually fought at high altitude where the P-51 was designed to fly, it would be a much different story. Ultimately, when you are discussing plane performance, doing so without discussing altitude is leaving a huge piece of the puzzle out.

[Momo ibn san Salani]

P47

[Martian Patriot]

Escrito originalmente por Brasky:

The P-47 is probably the easier plane to fly in War Thunder thanks to its lower BR. However, both planes in real life were high altitude long range escort planes. A high altitude long range escort plane does not transfer that well to War Thunder where most of the combat takes place at low altitudes. The P-51 was a great plane in real life because it filled its role perfectly--long range high altitude escort. Certainly you can use either the P-51 and P-47 in War Thunder and be successful, but it takes more patience than low altitude turn fighters (of which the Russians have many). If people actually fought at high altitude where the P-51 was designed to fly, it would be a much different story. Ultimately, when you are discussing plane performance, doing so without discussing altitude is leaving a huge piece of the puzzle out.

The only Soviet turn-fighters in this game are the Ishak variants, what am I missing here "low altitude turn fighters (of which the Russians have many)"?

[Brasky]

Escrito originalmente por STUKA ZU FUN:

The only Soviet turn-fighters in this game are the Ishak variants, what am I missing here "low altitude turn fighters (of which the Russians have many)"?

I believe most people would also consider Yaks to be turn fighters. And also, when you compare the Russian planes with most of the German or US planes, they usually turn much better. The Russians are probably on par with the British in regards to general turning ability (of course it is always plane specific). I believe most would consider the La series to generally be "energy" fighters. However, these La's will still out-turn many other planes. Of course, I also generally only play in simulator mode, which will make a difference as well.

In regards to the "low-altitude" comment, if you research you will find that many of the Russian planes were designed for low altitude combat as most of the fighting on this front occurred at low altitude. Therefore, in War Thunder where most of the fighting takes place at low altitude, the Russian planes will tend to be at an advantage.

[Martian Patriot]

Escrito originalmente por Brasky:

Escrito originalmente por STUKA ZU FUN:

The only Soviet turn-fighters in this game are the Ishak variants, what am I missing here "low altitude turn fighters (of which the Russians have many)"?

I believe most people would also consider Yaks to be turn fighters. And also, when you compare the Russian planes with most of the German or US planes, they usually turn much better. The Russians are probably on par with the British in regards to general turning ability (of course it is always plane specific). I believe most would consider the La series to generally be "energy" fighters. However, these La's will still out-turn many other planes. Of course, I also generally only play in simulator mode, which will make a difference as well.

In regards to the "low-altitude" comment, if you research you will find that many of the Russian planes were designed for low altitude combat as most of the fighting on this front occurred at low altitude. Therefore, in War Thunder where most of the fighting takes place at low altitude, the Russian planes will tend to be at an advantage.

I was only questioning the turn-fighting aspect of your comment, I agree with the low alt ability. I happen to disagree with considering Yaks turn-fighters though, the best turn for 180 degrees for a Yak is the 9k with 17.9 seconds (Last time I checked). That's a decent turn but most dedicated turnfighters are more in the 14-15 at maximum. Every other Yak has a turn of 18-20+ so I hardly consider that makes Yaks good turnfighters. By that standard a vast majority of American planes are also turnfighters including the F4U-1a,1d and the P-51D5, and D30.

[Brasky]

Escrito originalmente por STUKA ZU FUN:

I was only questioning the turn-fighting aspect of your comment, I agree with the low alt ability. I happen to disagree with considering Yaks turn-fighters though, the best turn for 180 degrees for a Yak is the 9k with 17.9 seconds (Last time I checked). That's a decent turn but most dedicated turnfighters are more in the 14-15 at maximum. Every other Yak has a turn of 18-20+ so I hardly consider that makes Yaks good turnfighters. By that standard a vast majority of American planes are also turnfighters including the F4U-1a,1d and the P-51D5, and D30.

You can't go by the statistics supplied in game. The Yak turns much, much, much better than all P-51 and all F4Us. Once again, I fly only in simulator mode. If you do not believe me fly in simulator mode (or perhaps realistic battle mode) and fly in a P-51 or F4U and try to turn fight a Yak. You will quickly be shot down.

The only American plane that might have a chance in a turn fight with a Yak is perhaps the P-36, Buffalo, P39/P63--and those I'm not too sure about. If you are only counting turnfighters as an Ishak--then there are basically almost no turnfighters in the game. The only thing comparable to the Ishak is the Zero.

At the end of the day, any plane can be a turnfighter--it just has to turn better than its competition.

[Martian Patriot]

Escrito originalmente por Brasky:

Escrito originalmente por STUKA ZU FUN:

I was only questioning the turn-fighting aspect of your comment, I agree with the low alt ability. I happen to disagree with considering Yaks turn-fighters though, the best turn for 180 degrees for a Yak is the 9k with 17.9 seconds (Last time I checked). That's a decent turn but most dedicated turnfighters are more in the 14-15 at maximum. Every other Yak has a turn of 18-20+ so I hardly consider that makes Yaks good turnfighters. By that standard a vast majority of American planes are also turnfighters including the F4U-1a,1d and the P-51D5, and D30.

You can't go by the statistics supplied in game. The Yak turns much, much, much better than all P-51 and all F4Us. Once again, I fly only in simulator mode. If you do not believe me fly in simulator mode (or perhaps realistic battle mode) and fly in a P-51 or F4U and try to turn fight a Yak. You will quickly be shot down.

Oh I'm not, I have a stopwatch :P

[Brasky]

Escrito originalmente por STUKA ZU FUN:

Escrito originalmente por Brasky:

You can't go by the statistics supplied in game. The Yak turns much, much, much better than all P-51 and all F4Us. Once again, I fly only in simulator mode. If you do not believe me fly in simulator mode (or perhaps realistic battle mode) and fly in a P-51 or F4U and try to turn fight a Yak. You will quickly be shot down.

Oh I'm not, I have a stopwatch :P

In that case, take up my challenge and try to turnfight Yaks in simulator or realistic battle mode with a P-51 or F4U--or really any American plane for that matter. I can assure you will almost always be shot down.

[Martian Patriot]

Escrito originalmente por Brasky:

Escrito originalmente por STUKA ZU FUN:

Oh I'm not, I have a stopwatch :P

In that case, take up my challenge and try to turnfight Yaks in simulator or realistic battle mode with a P-51 or F4U--or really any American plane for that matter. I can assure you will almost always be shot down.

Well I have done it with a P-51D5 before out of desperation in Realistic but that was awhile ago. The point I'm trying to make is that being able to out-turn other energy fighters doesn't make Yaks turnfighters. If that was the case can they out-turn Zeroes or Spits? The Yak is simply a jack-of-all-trades fighter. It can out turn some energy fighters and out zoom some turnfighters but I'd rather take a plane out that has mastered either vertical or horizontal warfare as opposed to one the can't do either particularly well.

[Brasky]

Escrito originalmente por STUKA ZU FUN:

Escrito originalmente por Brasky:

In that case, take up my challenge and try to turnfight Yaks in simulator or realistic battle mode with a P-51 or F4U--or really any American plane for that matter. I can assure you will almost always be shot down.

Well I have done it with a P-51D5 before out of desperation in Realistic but that was awhile ago. The point I'm trying to make is that being able to out-turn other energy fighters doesn't make Yaks turnfighters. If that was the case can they out-turn Zeroes or Spits? The Yak is simply a jack-of-all-trades fighter. It can out turn some energy fighters and out zoom some turnfighters but I'd rather take a plane out that has mastered either vertical or horizontal warfare as opposed to one the can't do either particularly well.

Like I said, I believe most people would consider the Yak a turnfighter. I have heard the Yak referred to as the "Spitfire of the east" or something along those lines. A Spitfire and a Yak would have a good match in a turning engagement. I would put my money on the Yak, because at least in War Thunder, the Russian planes tend to retain energy extremely well, whereas the Spitfire loses energy extremely fast in a turnfight.

Ultimately, any plane can be a turnfighter, it just has to turn better than whatever it is facing. But I would still call the Yak a turnfighter in the general sense in that it will turnfight better than most of the planes it will face. Of course, the Zero and many Japanese planes will turn better than the Yak, in which case you will have to start flying the Yak as an energy fighter. However, at least in my mind, the fact that many Japanese planes will outturn the Yak does not therefore make the Yak not a turnfighter.

It seems that by your standards, the only plane that could be called a turnfighter is the one plane that outturns all other planes in the world, which seems to me to be an very narrow definition.

[Martian Patriot]

Escrito originalmente por Brasky:

Escrito originalmente por STUKA ZU FUN:

Well I have done it with a P-51D5 before out of desperation in Realistic but that was awhile ago. The point I'm trying to make is that being able to out-turn other energy fighters doesn't make Yaks turnfighters. If that was the case can they out-turn Zeroes or Spits? The Yak is simply a jack-of-all-trades fighter. It can out turn some energy fighters and out zoom some turnfighters but I'd rather take a plane out that has mastered either vertical or horizontal warfare as opposed to one the can't do either particularly well.

Like I said, I believe most people would consider the Yak a turnfighter. I have heard the Yak referred to as the "Spitfire of the east" or something along those lines. A Spitfire and a Yak would have a good match in a turning engagement. I would put my money on the Yak, because at least in War Thunder, the Russian planes tend to retain energy extremely well, whereas the Spitfire loses energy extremely fast in a turnfight.

Ultimately, any plane can be a turnfighter, it just has to turn better than whatever it is facing. But I would still call the Yak a turnfighter in the general sense in that it will turnfight better than most of the planes it will face. Of course, the Zero and many Japanese planes will turn better than the Yak, in which case you will have to start flying the Yak as an energy fighter. However, at least in my mind, the fact that many Japanese planes will outturn the Yak does not therefore make the Yak not a turnfighter.

It seems that by your standards, the only plane that could be called a turnfighter is the one plane that outturns all other planes in the world, which seems to me to be an very narrow definition.

I would just say a "turnfighter" is a fighter that can turn better than the average turn time of all fighters which at some point I calculated that to be 17.6 seconds so by that definition the Yak-9k IS a turnfighter. As for the spit v Yak turn fight scenario, I am quite incredulous that you would as you say "put money" on the Yak. The bleeding energy example is weird considering that you want less energy in a turnfight to prevent your pilot from knocking himself out and to get a better vector on the enemy and force him to fly past you.

[Brasky]

Escrito originalmente por STUKA ZU FUN:

The bleeding energy example is weird considering that you want less energy in a turnfight to prevent your pilot from knocking himself out and to get a better vector on the enemy and force him to fly past you.

I guess you don't think most Yaks are turnfighters. I disagree, but that's probably the way it is going to stay.

Even in a turnfight, it is better to lose energy more slowly. Try flying simulation mode and just turn horizontal circles with a Yak and then do the same with a Spitfire. In the Spitfire, your speed will drop very, very fast thanks in part to the huge wings. The Spitfire is comparatively heavy but can still turn well thanks to the huge wings. However, because of the huge wings it will burn its speed quite fast. Even in a turnfight, once you have used most of your speed/energy, you will turn horizontal circles more slowly. Once you are travelling slowly the airplane becomes much harder to keep in the air, more prone to stalling, and much less wiling to turn fast horizontal circles to get behind an opponent. Basically there is an "optimal speed" to maintain to turn the smallest circles--and if your plane can maintain that speed easier--it will make your life easier. The spitfire is much more challenging when it comes to maintaining this speed--even if it could hypothetically turn smaller circles than a Yak. At least that has been my experience in War Thunder/general flight sims.

Also as to "knocking the pilot out" are you speaking in War Thunder or real life? Because I have never experienced this "knocking out" effect in 300 or so hours of flight time in simulator mode.

[Martian Patriot]

Escrito originalmente por Brasky:

Escrito originalmente por STUKA ZU FUN:

The bleeding energy example is weird considering that you want less energy in a turnfight to prevent your pilot from knocking himself out and to get a better vector on the enemy and force him to fly past you.

Also as to "knocking the pilot out" are you speaking in War Thunder or real life? Because I have never experienced this "knocking out" effect in 300 or so hours of flight time in simulator mode.

I was talking about the G-force that will render your pilot unconsious.

[Neckstabba]

Escrito originalmente por snugginz:

Yes Yaks are turn fighters.
And energy fighters.
And BnZ fighters
It's a Russian made game so yeah- Yaks do it all.
Not in any way historically accurate of course...

And i thought Spitfires can do everything....

No, really, i dont find Yaks OP at all, for me they seems pretty balanced.
Prob is - noone can discuss with you, because you are a blind fool which ignores others and wanna tell people who ask questions something false. Now please, IF you really find those things 'unbalanced', go to the offical forums and write it down there, and not here.

[Neckstabba]

Escrito originalmente por snugginz:

And here come the America haters with their trash talk again! Yeah! If that's all you got...
Anyway, I'll keep it clean to preserve the thread from the lowness...

Spitfires don't energy fight or BnZ half as well as Yaks.
Yaks are the second best BnZ plane in the game, after 190s. Their energy retention, climb to setup for BnZ, acceleration on Boom is just stupid.

As for balance? The Yak 9T used to totally dominate 3BRs worth of the game.
Now that America has the 3.0 Mustang, and Brittain has the Sea Hurrican 1C there is more balance in the lower tiers. Since Gaijin decided this is a canon OP game after all, canon are about all that matters... [/b]

Wow you finally got it ! In AB only weapons matter.

Also IF i would hate America so much, why it is my favorite Nation here? Bringing freedom every day. And no, i never had problems in killing Yaks, my worst enemy is indeed the Spitfires, everything else is rather decent. Ofc do i die to others as well, but most of the times though an British thing.

And yes, it would be nice if you could clean this thread from ur lowness. Thanks.