Hull down and Smoke.

[Armored Baron]

So, these are generally used in most films and games that have tanks in them, mainly Company of Heroes and CoH 2 for games and Fury and Girls und Panzer concerning films. These are just examples, I'm taking a wild guess here but it's logical to have these things in a Film/Game about or including tanks and these are the only ones I can think of right now.

Anyways, hull down is simple, we just take up a defensive position in the ground (in the form of a tank trench) or sandbangs/durt covering the tank's front and only allowing for the turret and gun to move while the tank itself is immobile. This would be ideal for a defensive position and would boost the tank's defensive capabilities to the front so in order to destroy or make the tank get out of the position you'll need smoke, arty, planes or a flank or a well aimed shot at it's turret/gun.

Smoke, smoke rounds (used in Fury) and smoke canisters (used in Company of Heroes, CoH 2 and Girls und Panzer (sorta)) would work as intented, besides the last shot/round/shell type you unlock you'll also be able to unlock these smoke shots/rounds/shells and they'll basically just make a smoke cloud where the shot/round/shell hit, of course this would be balanced in a way that you'll be limited towards the number of shells you can take with you into battle to like 5 or something so you can't just spam smoke all over the map which will require smart use of them.

Smoke canisters work the same way as Smoke rounds but instead of having manual control of where the rounds hit you active it with a button (like the fire protection system or whatever you call it in-game) and smoke appears around the tank, normally there would be little mortar like tubes on the sides of the tank that would do this action and you can see them on a lot of real life tanks on pictures or in the museums.

Thanks in advance for reading and please keep it polite!

[Tankfriend]

Messaggio originale di A. Soldier:

Anyways, hull down is simple, we just take up a defensive position in the ground (in the form of a tank trench) or sandbangs/durt covering the tank's front and only allowing for the turret and gun to move while the tank itself is immobile. This would be ideal for a defensive position and would boost the tank's defensive capabilities to the front so in order to destroy or make the tank get out of the position you'll need smoke, arty, planes or a flank or a well aimed shot at it's turret/gun.

It's so simple, in fact, that you can already do all of this in the game by simply exploiting the terrain to your advantage. You don't need a feature that magically creates cover from nothing when you can just hide most of your tank behind hills or rocks, or in shallow depressions etc. Some maps even already have the kind of hull-down positions made out of mounds of dirt that you're looking for.

[Armored Baron]

Messaggio originale di Tankfriend:

Messaggio originale di A. Soldier:

Anyways, hull down is simple, we just take up a defensive position in the ground (in the form of a tank trench) or sandbangs/durt covering the tank's front and only allowing for the turret and gun to move while the tank itself is immobile. This would be ideal for a defensive position and would boost the tank's defensive capabilities to the front so in order to destroy or make the tank get out of the position you'll need smoke, arty, planes or a flank or a well aimed shot at it's turret/gun.

It's so simple, in fact, that you can already do all of this in the game by simply exploiting the terrain to your advantage. You don't need a feature that magically creates cover from nothing when you can just hide most of your tank behind hills or rocks, or in shallow depressions etc. Some maps even already have the kind of hull-down positions made out of mounds of dirt that you're looking for.

Obi-wan, what if the devs think of another way of making this work with the already in-game terrain? In Company of Heroes and Company of Heroes 2 tanks get different bonuses from hulling down from simple defensive ones to turret rotation and reloading, of course you'd be limited towards your fast reactions and mobility as both will requre time and maybe even the crew being disabled. But I'm really thinking this might come in handy for future maps such as Kurst or other oppend terrain maps with limited hill or natural cover, and some points really don't have any such which makes them a pain to defend.

[Egro]

In COH2 your tank don't magically create a hull down, you need troops for that. However a Sherman with a bulldozer can make its very own cover which is impossible with WT game engine. So you can forget about Hull down like in COH2.

Smoke however is very possible and the German use it extensively during the war..coughcuzofopT34coughcough..

side note: they get a Maus running and working in Girls und Panzer so nope, their tech level is beyond WT...lol.

[Armored Baron]

Messaggio originale di ARC8Egro:

In COH2 your tank don't magically create a hull down, you need troops for that. However a Sherman with a bulldozer can make its very own cover which is impossible with WT game engine. So you can forget about Hull down like in COH2.

Smoke however is very possible and the German use it extensively during the war..coughcuzofopT34coughcough

You'll know what I'm talking about if you've ever played as the British with the Royal Engineer support doctrine in Company of Heroes, anyways as I said the devs might think of some other way to make it both realistic and practical.

[Tankfriend]

Sure, they can probably find another way. But why should they? The basic idea of going hull-down as it would realistically be used on the battlefield without prepared defenses is already possible, and some maps have prepared defenses, too.
Why introduce the ability to make hull-down cover at will (even if it takes, say, 30 seconds and more), and possibly reward it with some arbitrary bonus? What would be the benefit of it other than promoting camping, which WT is sometimes already blamed a lot for, and possibly breaking the balance on some maps?
I just can't see what would make the whole matter worth it, especially when you consider that designing a way around all those issues binds *a lot* of manpower that the game needs elsewhere.

Messaggio originale di ARC8Egro:

side note: they get a Maus running and working in Girls und Panzer so nope, their tech level is beyond WT...lol.

Considering they have a Type 10 MBT show up in one episode, and all the tanks having some kind of carbon nano-fiber coating or whatever to protect the crew inside...

[Armored Baron]

Messaggio originale di Tankfriend:

Sure, they can probably find another way. But why should they? The basic idea of going hull-down as it would realistically be used on the battlefield without prepared defenses is already possible, and some maps have prepared defenses, too.
Why introduce the ability to make hull-down cover at will (even if it takes, say, 30 seconds and more), and possibly reward it with some arbitrary bonus? What would be the benefit of it other than promoting camping, which WT is sometimes already blamed a lot for, and possibly breaking the balance on some maps?
I just can't see what would make the whole matter worth it, especially when you consider that designing a way around all those issues binds *a lot* of manpower that the game needs elsewhere.

Messaggio originale di ARC8Egro:

side note: they get a Maus running and working in Girls und Panzer so nope, their tech level is beyond WT...lol.

Considering they have a Type 10 MBT show up in one episode, and all the tanks having some kind of carbon nano-fiber coating or whatever to protect the crew inside...

Camping? Breaking Balance? What star system do you live in? You have as much counters as you want, smoke (if implemented), flanking, arty, planes and more, if they add any.

[Tankfriend]

Messaggio originale di A. Soldier:

Camping? Breaking Balance? What star system do you live in? You have as much counters as you want, smoke (if implemented), flanking, arty, planes and more, if they add any.

I'm just looking at the bigger picture relative to the gameplay we already have here, and that picture isn't pretty.

Smoke might be effective, but it's not even in the game yet, so we can't really tell. Besides, it can only help you in getting into a flanking position, as taking a dug-in tank frontally - even with smoke - is suicidal and a pure lottery. Not to mention that people can just keep aiming at where you were when you popped the smoke, and they will still hit you if you haven't moved away far enough yet. It's not a magical shell deflector like in CoH. Besides, if you have to research it, you might not even have smoke when you'd need it.

As for flanking, you do realize that there's over a dozen more people in the enemy team? Unless the tank going hull-down is stupid, he will make sure that there's at least some people roughly looking his way to cover his back, and he will also exploit the terrain to cover some of his flanks as best he can. Stand next to a hill, a rock or whatever else, and at least one of your flanks is now difficult or completely impossible to attack. You can also expand that area by angling your tank somewhat (something you should do, anyway), making part of the opposite flank more difficult to attack, too.
Not to mention that you'll have to look for a flanking path that isn't being fought over, already, or open to everyone's return fire immediately, too.
And this isn't even taking into account a platoon of several tanks working together in a coordinated way. Imagine a coordinated hedgehog of dug-in tanks that cover each others' flanks that is completely locking down a part of the map, and you'll see where I'm coming from. Something like that is already possible now, even without a hull-down feature.

Artillery is a lottery, too. It works relatively well against medium tanks, but against heavy tanks, it might as well not be there unless you get a lucky direct hit. Given the fact that the dug-in tank will only have *more* protection than a non-dug-in tank, it's going to be even less effective, unless you add an arbitrary and completely unrealistic bonus against dug-in tanks to it. Not to mention that you might not even have artillery for a good stretch of time, just like smoke.

Which leaves aircraft as the only reliable solution to the problem. And those are being ******* about all the time, already, for supposedly being too overpowered, so who knows what will happen to them.
But a case in point: Even aircraft can be neutralized completely in some cases. You can shoot them down with AA, fighters, a lucky hit from a tank gun or MG. There's even some positions on some maps where you can driver under a bridge, a stone arc or whatever, and be safe from bombs and artillery, as far as I could tell so far.

[KonCussive]

smoke would be a nice addition and sounds doable
"hull down" like from CoH is a poor idea
we already had areas on the map to "hulldown" and digging a trench CANT be done in an instant but requires possibly (guess) a whole afternoon to dig out

"hull down" modes/functions would promote camping to the highest degree
thats probably why most hull down areas are in the middle of the map (camp in the middle why dont you)