No Swastika Logos On German Planes...Why?

[Captain Salt]

I don't see why the warthunder devs would replace the swastika with an X. It isn't like they are trying to offend anyone witha historical symbol.

[Pumba70]

Originally posted by Vandalen:

You are just missing the point here, completely!
Who in the world would paint something on his vehicle that is in any way connected to the last leader of the Third Reich, a genocidal murderer, marauder and war criminal?

Or someone seeking a realistic model for a game that focuses on model realism. :P

[NAF-5th.Legion-Waffen.Div]

Originally posted by Vandalen:

Originally posted by hegemoni -GONG-:

the swastika-has been hijacked-originally by the nsdap-then by the propagandists-today-extremism etc-media-the wars so popular today-whod have thort it ended-eh
funnily enough in israel its not banned as its used for 'education'it serves a purpose
you know its thier yet dnt mention the war,,same a xuck-you know it yet dnt show-
i dnt wanna see the symbol-so stop an argument
but countries that ban anything are oppresive-its up to individuals to decide
just get customs skins

Aside your orthography, you just don not understand the symbolism behind the Swastike used by the NSDAP. It stands for millions of deaths, warcrimes, genocide and the disgusting belives of the Nazi leaders. Sadly to say, but there are only two kind of people that absolutly want this symbol, people with a dogmatiic attitude and believers of the symbolism.

Oh, and of course it's not historical correct but War thunder is not an educational programm. It's a simple shootinggame with planes and tanks, not the history channel.

some reading you might find interesting....the balfour declaration.....london express march24th 1933.....

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by 16-Bit Potatoᴭᴺ:

Originally posted by Peirogi:

The "X" you speak of is the symbol for the Wehermacht, the german army. It is not connected to the nazi party, due to those idiots making a mess over in europe. It just is supposed to represent a COUNTRIES planes, not a Nazi governed state's planes.

But wasn't the Wehrmacht the Nazi's army? For example, the Heeresadler was a decal on the Wehrmacht's infantry helmet...which is the same symbol that the Nazi's used.

1. Wehrmacht was the standard army of the German Empire, the nazis you are looking for is the SS.

2. The Heeresadler is the eagle symbol of the ground forces and used in German culture long long before hitler were born.

3. Remember, nazis also have eaten bread, we do eat bread too... are we nazis now ? Do you know what I mean ? Not everything the nazis used is automatically a nazi symbol, it was also used by the nazis sure, but even the swastika is far far far older then the nazis, it was even used by old germanics fighting the romans, and also in india.

[Big Salt]

Originally posted by Pumba70:

Out of sight, out of mind for some people in the world I guess. I think its rediculous. It's historical, people make what they want to make out of a symbol. I can understand why millions of people would not appreciate the symbol, but at the same time, they should appreciate it.

Acknowledging history only helps one understand why certain things happened and how to prevent more negative world events from happening. People shouldn't outright ban a symbol becuase of it's use by one person or the other just because it affected them negatively and they do not want to acknowlege it. It is honestly doing a disservice to history.

The struggle is too real, 2real4me even. I understand why some people don't want certain symbols in-game, but on the other hand, I also understand why people would. Just hope more people could see more than black and white.

There really isn't a reason for censorship, the swastika is a universal symbol for good luck. The nazis adopted this symbol, along with several others from Norse mythology.

[Big Salt]

Originally posted by Vandalen:

You are just missing the point here, completely!
Who in the world would paint something on his vehicle that is in any way connected to the last leader of the Third Reich, a genocidal murderer, marauder and war criminal?

Because in technicallity, that symbol has nothing to do with the Reich. It only recieves bad rep because the Nazis used it. Had it been any symbol, or even a country's flag, it would still be "connected" to the Reich in the minds of the people or victims of these monsters.

(Sorry for the double post)

[Vandalen]

Originally posted by NAFdeadmike:

some reading you might find interesting....the balfour declaration.....london express march24th 1933.....

what do you want to say with that? they deserved it or what?

Originally posted by Explosive Cheese:

Originally posted by Vandalen:

You are just missing the point here, completely!
Who in the world would paint something on his vehicle that is in any way connected to the last leader of the Third Reich, a genocidal murderer, marauder and war criminal?

Because in technicallity, that symbol has nothing to do with the Reich. It only recieves bad rep because the Nazis used it. Had it been any symbol, or even a country's flag, it would still be "connected" to the Reich in the minds of the people or victims of these monsters.

This post refers to that post:

Originally posted by 16-Bit Potatoᴭᴺ:

Anyway, back to the main point...Couldn't we just make a symbol that doesn't look so out of place for the germans? Even the flag looks kind of strange and lame with a X on it. Maybe something with a bit more flair...like mybe the Panzerdivision Hermann Göring for some airplanes.

[Big Salt]

Originally posted by Vandalen:

Originally posted by NAFdeadmike:

some reading you might find interesting....the balfour declaration.....london express march24th 1933.....

what do you want to say with that? they deserved it or what?

Originally posted by Explosive Cheese:

Because in technicallity, that symbol has nothing to do with the Reich. It only recieves bad rep because the Nazis used it. Had it been any symbol, or even a country's flag, it would still be "connected" to the Reich in the minds of the people or victims of these monsters.

This post refers to that post:

Originally posted by 16-Bit Potatoᴭᴺ:

Anyway, back to the main point...Couldn't we just make a symbol that doesn't look so out of place for the germans? Even the flag looks kind of strange and lame with a X on it. Maybe something with a bit more flair...like mybe the Panzerdivision Hermann Göring for some airplanes.

My point still stands, I just find it a bit rediculous that a law requires censorship of a symbol that has absolutely no relation to the nazis other than the fact that they used it as a party symbol. Making something in place of it is also rediculous because most of these symbols are still "connected" to the nazis in one form or another through the norse mythology. Might as well just use a Swastika if your going to use something like an image of the man who devised the "final solution" for instance.

[Vandalen]

Originally posted by Explosive Cheese:

My point still stands, I just find it a bit rediculous that a law requires censorship of a symbol that has absolutely no relation to the nazis other than the fact that they used it as a party symbol. Making something in place of it is also rediculous because most of these symbols are still "connected" to the nazis in one form or another. Might as well just use a Swastika if your going to use something like an image from the man who devised the "final solution" for instance.

Well i can understand you, really. Who knows how this will be handled in 100 years. But right now, all this events of the second World War are still "fresh", believe it or not. Do you live in a country with such laws? Believe me, the awareness for such symbols and connections is very very edged.

[Big Salt]

Originally posted by Wales☪Grey:

Originally posted by Explosive Cheese:

My point still stands, I just find it a bit rediculous that a law requires censorship of a symbol that has absolutely no relation to the nazis other than the fact that they used it as a party symbol.

Ahahaha, "has no relation... used as a party symbol"? So there is a relation.

Again, symbols do not exist in a void. They exist in the context of their use. When used in the context of World War 2, the black swastika is directly associated with the Nazi party.

Your missing my point. As far as history is concerned, the black swastika is also directly associated with universal mythology and positive meaning. Shame on me I suppose for assuming others know their history. I don't live in a country where symbols are censored, so forgive my misunderstanding.

As for what Vandalen said, yeah I agree, who knows how this will be viewed in 100 years. However, as long as we remember what happened and why it happened so it may not be easily repeated. I just don't think censorship is really helping that.

[Big Salt]

Originally posted by Wales☪Grey:

Originally posted by Explosive Cheese:

Your missing my point. As far as history is concerned, the black swastika is also directly associated with universal mythology and positive meaning. Shame on me I suppose for assuming others know their history. I don't live in a country where symbols are censored, so forgive my misunderstanding

The black swastika is also directly associated with the Nazi party as far as history is concerned, by your admission. Why ought your prefered association take precedence over the symbol's historic association and usage within the context of WW2?

Because the historic association that I mention came before the context and use in World War 2. I can use a symbol for whatever purpose I see fit or whatever context I believe it should fit in the event I use it. I could create a symbol that conists of say, 5 stars and the planet Jupiter and use it for whatever purpose I wish or even take a well known symbol such as the Christian cross or the Islamic Crescent moon. If I use it for any political or militant purposes, does it change the original meaning of the symbol?

[RedT3rror]

Originally posted by Explosive Cheese:

Because the historic association that I mention came before the context and use in World War 2. I can use a symbol for whatever purpose I see fit or whatever context I believe it should fit in the event I use it. I could create a symbol that conists of say, 5 stars and the planet Jupiter and use it for whatever purpose I wish or even take a well known symbol such as the Christian cross or the Islamic Crescent moon. If I use it for any political or militant purposes, does it change the original meaning of the symbol?

Yes it does. Here in our current german culture, the swastika stands for nothing more than inhumane ideology, hatred, violence, death and so forth. Ask a german what he associates with a swastika in the first place. You won't hear anything good about it. However, this is obviously not the case in asian countries, where the history hasn't shaped this symbol the german way. Culture determines the meaning of symbols and culture is dependant on history.

[Big Salt]

Originally posted by RedT3rror:

Originally posted by Explosive Cheese:

Because the historic association that I mention came before the context and use in World War 2. I can use a symbol for whatever purpose I see fit or whatever context I believe it should fit in the event I use it. I could create a symbol that conists of say, 5 stars and the planet Jupiter and use it for whatever purpose I wish or even take a well known symbol such as the Christian cross or the Islamic Crescent moon. If I use it for any political or militant purposes, does it change the original meaning of the symbol?

Yes it does. Here in our current german culture, the swastika stands for nothing more than inhumane ideology, hatred, violence, death and so forth. Ask a german what he associates with a swastika in the first place. You won't hear anything good about it. However, this is obviously not the case in asian countries, where the history hasn't shaped this symbol the german way. Culture determines the meaning of symbols and culture is dependant on history.

I mean in general, obviously the Germans today would never see this in positive light after the fact. But I'm just saying, if you were to ask that same German 150 years ago, prior to WW2, he would obviously not make this correlation. Even Finnish pilots in WW1 for example, wore the swastika on their uniform for good luck. I also think this type of thinking is a bit unnecessary. I hate the men behind the symbol, rather than the symbol itself. For example, the current neo-nazis of today stand for what you mentioned about the symbol (at least to me) not necessarily the symbol itself. The Ku Klux Klan in America represent this inhumane ideology and violence for example, long before whatever symbol they use will ever represent. I just simply think censorship is not really necessary.

[Procrastinating Gamer]

Originally posted by Wales☪Grey:

Originally posted by Explosive Cheese:

I just simply think censorship is not really necessary.

If you really believe it to be uneeded, please forward your concerns to the Russian government and urge them to consider changing their laws so you can have a tiny mark on your aircraft or tank that noone will see in a video game.

And even if you manage to pull that off; brace yourself for the flood of people posting on here saying how offended they are that symbol is there. Because there are going to be a lot more of those people that those who would accept it for historical accuracy, regardless of the symbol's origin.

[RedT3rror]

Originally posted by Explosive Cheese:

I mean in general, obviously the Germans today would never see this in positive light after the fact. But I'm just saying, if you were to ask that same German 150 years ago, prior to WW2, he would obviously not make this correlation. Even Finnish pilots in WW1 for example, wore the swastika on their uniform for good luck. I also think this type of thinking is a bit unnecessary. I hate the men behind the symbol, rather than the symbol itself. For example, the current neo-nazis of today stand for what you mentioned about the symbol (at least to me) not necessarily the symbol itself. The Ku Klux Klan in America represent this inhumane ideology and violence for example, long before whatever symbol they use will ever represent. I just simply think censorship is not really necessary.

This censorship exists in order to prevent propaganda through them (people like symbols, they are so simple and yet they contain a special meaning) and because they obviously offend the human rights and such stuff. Why is there this kind of censorship needed? Because many people are too stupid to deal with ideologies, religions etc. properly.

[Captain Salt]

How is this different than the symbols like the Wermecht cross, or the Japanese flag, or the Soviet star?