Panzer IV E* - HEAT overpenetration

[RodriguesCIA]

I am having a lot of trouble to cause crew kills or significant damage when firing at turrets (which is the safest opening you can get in any tank engagement) with this Panzer's top HEAT ammo. I actually saw it going completely trough once. What's the matter, is the fuse too long, should I just avoid firing at turrets or what?

[Tankfriend]

Probably aim more carefully for what you want to hit. HEAT and APCR have a rather small area of effect, and they don't explode after penetration like APHE does.

[Nadlug]

Originally posted by RodriguesCIA:

What's the matter, is the fuse too long, should I just avoid firing at turrets or what?

German APCBC (Supposed to be APHE) shells were given dud fuses back before US ground forces came out, I never used HEAT much so it wouldent supprise me.

[RodriguesCIA]

According to the numbers:
K. Gr. rot Pz., APCBC, 45/43/35/30/30/17, 440ms, 6.8kg, FD 1.3, FS 30mm. Given the fuse sensitivity, it is only blowing up if I hit frontal armor, but the fragmentation is still acceptable.

Hl. Gr. 38C, HEAT, 100/x/x..., 450ms, 4.8, FD 0, FS 1mm. It is blowing as soon as it hits the target, which helps with penetration (I suppose this is how HEAT shells are supposed to work) and I never see it ricochet, but the fragmentation is pretty damn low.

In conclusion, HEAT is not that great, but apparently the APCBC in that tank is pretty damn bad, so I got no choice but stay at range.

[Tankfriend]

Originally posted by Wales Grey:

That's because HEAT explodes before it penetrates. Munroe Effect, ya know?

Yeah, I know how it works, thank you very much.
Just thought it's worth pointing out when the OP thought that

What's the matter, is the fuse too long,

implying the fuse delay would be so long that the shell itself would penetrate and explode afterwards like APHE does.

Originally posted by RodriguesCIA:

Hl. Gr. 38C, HEAT, 100/x/x..., 450ms, 4.8, FD 0, FS 1mm. It is blowing as soon as it hits the target, which helps with penetration (I suppose this is how HEAT shells are supposed to work)

Yes, that's how they're supposed to work. The explosion is what creates the penetrator that goes through the armour, in the first place.

[RodriguesCIA]

So the shell that is intended to penetrate and explode inside is the APHE, while the HEAT uses the explosion to help in penetration, sending a smaller solid component inside? I am used to WoT, been playing this game for a handful of days and I am not really a tank afficionado, so I really don't know a whole lot.

[Tankfriend]

Originally posted by RodriguesCIA:

So the shell that is intended to penetrate and explode inside is the APHE, while the HEAT uses the explosion to help in penetration, sending a smaller solid component inside?

That's the gist of it, yes, though the penetrator of a HEAT shell isn't exactly solid when the shell goes off. It's more of a stream of superheated metal.
APHE is a solid AP shot with a hollow part inside filled with explosives. Depending on the fuse used in the shell, it will have to penetrate a minimum thickness of armour for the fuse to actually get set off, and the fuse will also have a delay between getting triggered and actually blowing up the shell. Ideally, this means that the shell will penetrate the armour of the target, and then explode in the middle of the tank. In the worst case, though, the shell will just punch right through and not explode at all. Very common problem when you're shooting targets with thin armour, like AA tanks.

HEAT, on the other hand, is similar to an explosive shell, except that the tip is hollow and filled with a cone-shaped, hollow, metal liner (usually made of copper). You can guess where the name "hollow charge" is coming from from this info.
The shell explodes on impact, and the explosive force is mostly concentrated on that metal cone, which compresses it into a thin long rod, and propels it towards the target at extreme speeds. *That* is what actually penetrates the armour, which is why penetration power on HEAT shells is independent of range.

I am used to WoT, been playing this game for a handful of days and I am not really a tank afficionado, so I really don't know a whole lot.

Yeah, well... it's rather oversimplified, so you're probably better off not taking anything from WoT as granted in WT. ;)

[RodriguesCIA]

At least I can take the penetration for granted against most vehicles on Tier 1. Too bad there's top little shrapnel. Last question: HEAT can by any chance bounce out of armor, or the only thing I need to mind about angling is the extra thickness?

[Tankfriend]

Originally posted by RodriguesCIA:

Last question: HEAT can by any chance bounce out of armor, or the only thing I need to mind about angling is the extra thickness?

Yes, it can bounce, just like HE. The angle has to be much worse than on AP rounds, though.
You can look it up in the stat card of the ammo in the game.