Ground RB? more like CAS RB

[Alvazia]

Meh at this point I'm just waiting for WT nerds to say "skill issue" or something unconstructive like that.

[Venom]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Пожилая Юность:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Cleric John Preston:

2025 and we still dont have tank vs tank only.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RafikisAntsYT:

you just dont get it at all. When we wanna play tanks, we want to play tanks not anti air not planes TANKS. playing anti air the rewards are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥: dying to something that has a massive advantage is going to trigger rage cause youre just supposed to take it. playing anti air has a much higher skill ceiling than playing cas

Honestly, I like the way aircraft are implemented in bot GAB and GSB lower than 10_2 lineup. They don't really affect matches too much, as there's a time limit on aircraft usage in the former and high skill requirement to dominate (and fly at all) in the latter. I only remember a couple of deaths in my tank from above in both modes, and it always feels like either 'Well, it's really my fault, I should've paid more attention to what happens around' or 'Damn, the guy's real cool, there was no way I could've avoided getting killed once he spotted me and chose as his target'. Most of the time, however, you barely feel there's some battle happening in the skies above the tank map or any change they bring to the game, before guided bombs and missiles become a thing for sure, it's just that vehicles with little to no armour mostly aren't playable in GAB because of CAS, you'd rather go to 'realistic' or simulator with them.

In GRB, however...they implemented CAS in the worst way possible somehow. It's so bad and annoying I ceased playing it for any purpose bar for some rare Battle Pass tasks and challenges, like getting 15 kill assists with active scouting (since this function is broken af in GAB and doesn't exist at all in GSB), but otherwise prefer the other two modes (for, like, destroying ground targets with air units or shooting down airplanes and helicopters with a ground vic) or air/naval battles.

In GRB, SPAA only requires more skill, so at lower BRs where you have cannon SPAA. Paradoxically, at higher BRs 9.7 +, SPAA is easier in GRB, because you just need to send an IR missile and the enemy doesn't know about you. So I understand that in GRB you feel that CAS are more annoying, because you don't have pre-aiming on the cannon SPAA, or showing where to shoot like in GAB, so it requires more skill to hit the aircraft, but realistically you need more skill to fly, control the aircraft, bomb and of course find the enemy because they are not marked by the game. It's all just a matter of habit and experience, or skill. In GRB, you just need to hide with SPAA and wait more patiently for an attack, because the enemy SPAA has almost no chance of finding you without marking, e.g. in the forest, behind the house, etc. unless you start shooting. CAS often orients itself to these BRs based on shooting, or rather, based on it, it finds your position. That's why you need to be more patient with SPAA in GRB and wait for a really good time to attack. Many players don't hide, they stay at the spawn and start shooting as soon as they see an aircraft, even if it's several kilometers away where the chance of hitting is almost zero. That alone will immediately attract attention and make it a priority target for CAS. Whereas if CAS approaches the battlefield and no one is shooting at it, CAS can easily get the feeling that there are no SPAA on the battlefield, and will fly closer until it's too late. It simply requires more tactical combat, thinking and strategy, which is why they are also called realistic. :)

[Dinonoms]

I looked at last few games I had and about 1 in 30 is cas related. Most of the time I die because the game either fails to render enemies or the missing engine sound of other tanks

[Alvazia]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gen.Lagus:

Crap players should be sent to the next round instead of pestering the round and their team.

Haha your method is somewhat interesting if they implement it I'm sure the game will be dead in several months not the solution I was hoping for but that works out for me too!

[Venom]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Пожилая Юность:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ^0.SAS.^4HunterCat:

No, but your "cas = arty" brings nothing to the table. Hence why i said what i said.
WoT has planes? No? then if you dont like planes go suffer from arty, as if you dont ALSO suffer from arty in WT already, VIDAR sends his regards.
Alternativly, even if gaijin makes the T vs T mode people will always find something to cry about. "There are covers on the map! it pervents me from killing stuff!" "The map is too hilly! Enemies hide!"

You ignore the essence of the argument. People dislike CAS not because it's performed by airplanes and helicopters which they don't like for some reason (planes are ugly, ppl are jealous planes can fly like birds and tanks can't etc.), but because CAS is toxic due to aircraft being able to bomb you or your ally whenever and wherever they want, while you have little to no means to prevent it or fight back unless you're in a SPAA.
There's no use advicing people to switch to WoT if they don't like airplanes in WT ground battles, as they will face exactly the same problem: artillery poops on them from above when it wants to, and they can't retalliate or stop it as long as there's no safe road towards the arty position (and 99.99% of the time there isn't such, even if you manage to deal with all tanks on a flank and survive, you'll likely get destroyed by invisible TDs sitting in bushes at the enemy spawn point). Switching games doesn't solve the problem of tanks suffering from indirect fire - only makes it less painful, depending on which one you choose.

And no, VIDAR is forced to act in a direct fire role, i.e. there's always a line of sight between it and an opponent, the latter can fight back and have a chance to destroy it with any gun with sufficient penetration, even with low muzzle velocity. It might be toxic, but that's entirely different thing compared to both CAS and arty in WoT.

And no, if there was pure T vs T combat, such examples of whining you mentioned would be a whole different level. That would be the place where I'd be among the first to accuse people of skill issue if they can't kill enemy tanks with equally strong or better tanks, and that they don't recognize cover and LoS blockers work both ways - as much as they benefit/challenge you, so they do to your opponent in the same vehicle class (ground).

I understand you, but you are thinking about the matter from the wrong angle. Or rather, you are choosing only one strong feature and arguing with it. I have already written here once, you have to look at the game as a whole, every single machine has its strengths and weaknesses and that is what it is about. Otherwise, the game would be boring, monotonous, and we would reach a state where all the machines in the game are the same and have the same capabilities, is that what you want?

For example, you write about the ability to bomb wherever and whoever they want, but you no longer write that the spawn of aircraft, for example, on 6.0 BR with bombs is over 600 SP +. While the spawn of the first tank is at 100 SP, it depends on the matchmaking and level, the spawn of the second tank is 200 SP and the spawn of SPAA is approximately 70-100 SP. Do you start the game with 450-500 SP? I'm not sure. Otherwise you don't have to do anything at all, no destruction, no point capture, no assists and you have 3 ground vehicle deployments, one of which is directly intended for aircraft destruction. Whereas if you die in a plane, you often end up going straight to the garage if you don't do at least one destruction so that you have at least 100 SP to deploy SPAA. Also, planes on these BRs often only have 2-3 bombs and if you want to re-arm, you have to fly quite far to the airport and wait, which significantly takes away your game time and chances of scoring points. Whereas CAS requires much more skill to fly, while hunting for targets, aiming them precisely to drop bombs, while also watching SPAA and as a bonus also watching the sky for enemy planes to attack you. Many times I have seen a team lose only to CAS because deployment points are so expensive that players simply went to the garage because they did not have SP to deploy tanks or SPAA and the team lost to them.

Every machine in the game has its advantages and disadvantages in different directions. It is up to you how to use them to your success. But many players do not want to do that, do not want to think, they only want to play their own game play and when there is something that is capable of interrupting their effective game play, instead of tactics and thinking, they prefer to start complaining.

I admit that in some BRs in certain nations there are not enough quality SPAA, but that is the fault of Gaijin's balance, not a CAS problem.

And comparing it to WoT artillery is wrong. Here you have two options to deal with CAS immediately, aircraft or SPAA. So I really don't know why everyone is talking as if CAS could do whatever it wanted and there was no way to defend itself.

[Shad1902]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Alvazia:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gen.Lagus:

Crap players should be sent to the next round instead of pestering the round and their team.

Haha your method is somewhat interesting if they implement it I'm sure the game will be dead in several months not the solution I was hoping for but that works out for me too!

on a serious note, if crapthunder would have a better tutorial and training ground for SPAA's (with more options on setting up targets), it would be so much simpler.

I learned it the hard way, and because SPAA gunnery is close to air gunnery anyway (I'm a ARB main). With a proper training ground we could just train to hearts content and have that skill level increased....

[Arbus Arbus]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Shad1902:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Alvazia:

Haha your method is somewhat interesting if they implement it I'm sure the game will be dead in several months not the solution I was hoping for but that works out for me too!

on a serious note, if crapthunder would have a better tutorial and training ground for SPAA's (with more options on setting up targets), it would be so much simpler.

I learned it the hard way, and because SPAA gunnery is close to air gunnery anyway (I'm a ARB main). With a proper training ground we could just train to hearts content and have that skill level increased....

but see then players wouldn't be frustrated and unskilled that would be terrible for gaijn.

[Tankoslav Tepyatdesyatpyatovich]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Venom:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Пожилая Юность:

Honestly, I like the way aircraft are implemented in bot GAB and GSB lower than 10_2 lineup. They don't really affect matches too much, as there's a time limit on aircraft usage in the former and high skill requirement to dominate (and fly at all) in the latter. I only remember a couple of deaths in my tank from above in both modes, and it always feels like either 'Well, it's really my fault, I should've paid more attention to what happens around' or 'Damn, the guy's real cool, there was no way I could've avoided getting killed once he spotted me and chose as his target'. Most of the time, however, you barely feel there's some battle happening in the skies above the tank map or any change they bring to the game, before guided bombs and missiles become a thing for sure, it's just that vehicles with little to no armour mostly aren't playable in GAB because of CAS, you'd rather go to 'realistic' or simulator with them.

In GRB, however...they implemented CAS in the worst way possible somehow. It's so bad and annoying I ceased playing it for any purpose bar for some rare Battle Pass tasks and challenges, like getting 15 kill assists with active scouting (since this function is broken af in GAB and doesn't exist at all in GSB), but otherwise prefer the other two modes (for, like, destroying ground targets with air units or shooting down airplanes and helicopters with a ground vic) or air/naval battles.

In GRB, SPAA only requires more skill, so at lower BRs where you have cannon SPAA. Paradoxically, at higher BRs 9.7 +, SPAA is easier in GRB, because you just need to send an IR missile and the enemy doesn't know about you. So I understand that in GRB you feel that CAS are more annoying, because you don't have pre-aiming on the cannon SPAA, or showing where to shoot like in GAB, so it requires more skill to hit the aircraft, but realistically you need more skill to fly, control the aircraft, bomb and of course find the enemy because they are not marked by the game. It's all just a matter of habit and experience, or skill. In GRB, you just need to hide with SPAA and wait more patiently for an attack, because the enemy SPAA has almost no chance of finding you without marking, e.g. in the forest, behind the house, etc. unless you start shooting. CAS often orients itself to these BRs based on shooting, or rather, based on it, it finds your position. That's why you need to be more patient with SPAA in GRB and wait for a really good time to attack. Many players don't hide, they stay at the spawn and start shooting as soon as they see an aircraft, even if it's several kilometers away where the chance of hitting is almost zero. That alone will immediately attract attention and make it a priority target for CAS. Whereas if CAS approaches the battlefield and no one is shooting at it, CAS can easily get the feeling that there are no SPAA on the battlefield, and will fly closer until it's too late. It simply requires more tactical combat, thinking and strategy, which is why they are also called realistic. :)

SPAA, SPAA, SPAA...SPAA this, SPAA that, be better with SPAA and you'll score lots of air kills with it...

Now, a question: outside the BP task to score air kills with ground units (which is most often SPAA of course, but things like 2S38 or QN506 may also work well), where did I mention or implied SPAAs as a vehicle class? I was describing the situation from the perspective of tanks and tank destroying: they have the best time in arcade and simulator, except vehicles in GAB that only have anti-bullet armour, as they frequently get killed not only by attackers and bombers, but escorting fighters as well even if they don't see nametags - you still know there's something easy to destroy around with your 12.7mm MGs or 20mm cannons thanks to the information on the scoreboard.

Most of the time, in both GAB and GSB air doesn't bother me at all (I'm too aware thanks to the markers and too armoured to be easily destroyed in GAB, and there are too few experienced ground pounders in GSB), and 95%+ of my deaths in a tank or TD are from other tanks or TDs (anti-tank capable SPAAs like ZSU-57-2 sometimes). But not in the GRB, where this percentage is higher, and every such death is annoying, every single one of them. Unlike being CAS-killed in GAB and GSB, again, where such deaths don't feel unfair, undeserved and offending. Except maybe once, in the Winter Ardennes map in 3_1, where my team was already losing and an enemy Hs.129B-3 (downed him with my M16 MGMC later) didn't leave me 2 extra seconds to nullify a crew of his ally in Pz.IV H when I was driving M4A1 (76) W. I would have been much more satisfied if that flying duck had one-tapped me after I had finished off his armoured friend :)

[Shad1902]

if you feel that CAS in GRB is unfair you can join the 10 other vocal anti-CAS crowd or uninstall the game...well, I'm not even sure there are 10 left as I've only seen 1 in this discussion.

Sorry but there's just no other way to put it...it's a do or die situation, as this has been discussed over the last 10 years, went through polls where the anti-CAS crowd was a minority, and it has been stated that this situation will not change.

BTW, It's the same in arcade, even worse because people just suicide their planes....don't pretend it's different, because it is not.

I also fly in SIM, and there I can start immediatly with a plane...and with a buddy on the ground marking targets, it's pretty similar.

[Alukat]

I just had a streak of 4 matches where i did not get revenge bombed... that was a fun 15 Kills with a single death ^^

[TH3H4\/0K]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Venom:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Пожилая Юность:

Honestly, I like the way aircraft are implemented in bot GAB and GSB lower than 10_2 lineup. They don't really affect matches too much, as there's a time limit on aircraft usage in the former and high skill requirement to dominate (and fly at all) in the latter. I only remember a couple of deaths in my tank from above in both modes, and it always feels like either 'Well, it's really my fault, I should've paid more attention to what happens around' or 'Damn, the guy's real cool, there was no way I could've avoided getting killed once he spotted me and chose as his target'. Most of the time, however, you barely feel there's some battle happening in the skies above the tank map or any change they bring to the game, before guided bombs and missiles become a thing for sure, it's just that vehicles with little to no armour mostly aren't playable in GAB because of CAS, you'd rather go to 'realistic' or simulator with them.

In GRB, however...they implemented CAS in the worst way possible somehow. It's so bad and annoying I ceased playing it for any purpose bar for some rare Battle Pass tasks and challenges, like getting 15 kill assists with active scouting (since this function is broken af in GAB and doesn't exist at all in GSB), but otherwise prefer the other two modes (for, like, destroying ground targets with air units or shooting down airplanes and helicopters with a ground vic) or air/naval battles.

In GRB, SPAA only requires more skill, so at lower BRs where you have cannon SPAA. Paradoxically, at higher BRs 9.7 +, SPAA is easier in GRB, because you just need to send an IR missile and the enemy doesn't know about you. So I understand that in GRB you feel that CAS are more annoying, because you don't have pre-aiming on the cannon SPAA, or showing where to shoot like in GAB, so it requires more skill to hit the aircraft, but realistically you need more skill to fly, control the aircraft, bomb and of course find the enemy because they are not marked by the game. It's all just a matter of habit and experience, or skill. In GRB, you just need to hide with SPAA and wait more patiently for an attack, because the enemy SPAA has almost no chance of finding you without marking, e.g. in the forest, behind the house, etc. unless you start shooting. CAS often orients itself to these BRs based on shooting, or rather, based on it, it finds your position. That's why you need to be more patient with SPAA in GRB and wait for a really good time to attack. Many players don't hide, they stay at the spawn and start shooting as soon as they see an aircraft, even if it's several kilometers away where the chance of hitting is almost zero. That alone will immediately attract attention and make it a priority target for CAS. Whereas if CAS approaches the battlefield and no one is shooting at it, CAS can easily get the feeling that there are no SPAA on the battlefield, and will fly closer until it's too late. It simply requires more tactical combat, thinking and strategy, which is why they are also called realistic. :)

Yes but you have to spent like 600h in game to reach SPAA at 9.0+?
This is weird but when people play tank, THEY WANT TO PLAY TANKS NOT PLANES.
Why we do not have like flying tanks in Plane mode?

[Alvazia]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Alukat:

I just had a streak of 4 matches where i did not get revenge bombed... that was a fun 15 Kills with a single death ^^

Niceee that rarely ever happened to me mostly I only killed 2 and the enemies started to transforming into planes like a Decepticon haha

[RollClassic]

I love spawning my 12.0 tank and still somehow being bottom tier.

I love fightinh 13.0 jets with my 11.3 SPAA that only gets HE-VT that's out ranged by ATGM from jets.

[Tankoslav Tepyatdesyatpyatovich]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RollClassic:

I love spawning my 12.0 tank and still somehow being bottom tier.

I love fightinh 13.0 jets with my 11.3 SPAA that only gets HE-VT that's out ranged by ATGM from jets.

You get it. Technically, top-tier ground vehicles only exist in arcade. In realistic and sim, 'top-tier' tanks are fake top-tier. You still face OP air against you, and in GRB, if you want to have potent top-tier fighters to oppose them/take revenge, your entire lineup is raised in br, not letting you dominate much weaker tanks: 11.7 is the lowest you can regularly face with your 12.0 tanks due to having 12.7 airplanes in your lineup, and without the latter, you could sometimes fight against 11.0-11.3 tanks, but in that case, you're weaker in uptiers, and one expects top vehicles never get uptiered, why would they be called 'top' then?

[TERRORIST]

They need to triple or quadruple ground unit plane kills. 1.5x or 2x plane spawn points. CAS ruins the fun of ground battles. I don't think they should be removed completely, but they're increasingly more frustrating to die too. The fact you can revenge kamikazi with little to no penalty is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ joke.

[NootNoot]

my favourite thing to play in grb is spaa but there are never any planes,
my second favourite thing to play is cas but u need to farm points. sucks.

they should just make planes free to use would solve both my problems
would make spawning as spaa actually worth it cus there is actually something to shoot at

think these 2 are my favourite since there is such little change of playing them due to 1:lack of planes 2:point requirement