Su27 radar?

[Davox]

Hello, coming from playing few months of USA almost, literally haven't touched USSR tree.

Came from playing f15c and e variants as i almost unlocked everything i decided that i leave full modification unlocking for later (when new vehicles will appear and i would use the reasearch bonus then).

Overall came back to ussr - i have first mig29, yak141 and su27 unlocked - so far so that i gave all best missiles except few bomb mods.

Gave a try to su27 and was blown away on how it seems & feels like i don't know how to play this plane anymore. Radar against its western (usa) counterparts is just - awful. Does not want lock, when it locks it loses it few seconds, TWS and high altitude missile jousting using 27er 5.8 mach potential just doesn't seem to work anymore - What happened?
Any suggestions or help would be appreciated on what is the new meta or what happened (except

git gud

that i know but help me out).

Thank you.

[bastion of pragmatism]

You’ve discovered russian bias. Congrats

[Jaes]

Welcome to finding out that Soviet airborne radar sucked so the Soviets developed redundancy systems to try to reliably hit targets (It's why R-27s have IOG capabilities).

[Fully operational death star]

Su-27 is literally uptier proof, I've had 7 kill matches it in relatively often. Unless you are stock, this is just a skill issue. BTW, use HMD lock if you arent already

[Qu Rahn]

Originally posted by Davox:

Hello, coming from playing few months of USA almost, literally haven't touched USSR tree.

Came from playing f15c and e variants as i almost unlocked everything i decided that i leave full modification unlocking for later (when new vehicles will appear and i would use the reasearch bonus then).

Overall came back to ussr - i have first mig29, yak141 and su27 unlocked - so far so that i gave all best missiles except few bomb mods.

Gave a try to su27 and was blown away on how it seems & feels like i don't know how to play this plane anymore. Radar against its western (usa) counterparts is just - awful. Does not want lock, when it locks it loses it few seconds, TWS and high altitude missile jousting using 27er 5.8 mach potential just doesn't seem to work anymore - What happened?
Any suggestions or help would be appreciated on what is the new meta or what happened (except

git gud

that i know but help me out).

Thank you.

The N001 radar has always been awful, if not the worst radar on 13.3~13.7. It's not you.

The scan rate I'm quite sure is the worst in top tier.
The search pattern can take UP TO 8 SECONDS to pass on the same location again, giving you all those ghost locks on TWS from wrong predictions/updates.
It also means you'll always be the last to lock, and that locks are easier to break.

Yeah, it does get the HMD mode (and it got buffed from 10km to 20km), which is nice for closer encounters, some IR modes as well, but the search/tws modes for fox-1/3 at long ranges... geez., completely unreliable.

All of those problems also get compounded on the fact that we now have a fox-3 metagame with much more capable airframes (F15E, EF2K, etc.), which even the newly buffed FM on Flankers cannot compete with.

You have to hold a lock until the missile connects (27ER), they don't, they'll launch then immediately start notching. R77s on the SU27SM correct a bit of that, since they are fox-3 as well, but the radar is still the exact same.

Yak-141 and Mig 29 SMT get a much better radar, N010, (SMT has 20km extra range iirc, but 80km on the 141 is already plenty good).

Finally, if you want Flankers with good radars, then you'll have to wait for some newer version, maybe the 30MKM/MKI (don't remember which one got updated electronics, and runs the risk of not ending up in the RU tree), SU35 (but it's not coming for a bit, very modern aircraft)

[Davox]

Thank you for great detailed insight - probably should keep this answer for thunder forums too, because i haven't seen anything explained in such detailed about this issue. Overall, yes it takes alot of practice and skill using to compensate for the downside of radar. I just played few hours and again and finally managed to get an 4 and 5 kill game.

But still need to get used to it, as for comparison f15 radar feels like almost as if it babysits you.

On other hand if you start braining enough it makes you develop other strategies like:
1. medium altitude, TWS HDN - shot one 27er early, then quite soon reactivate it, most possibly making enemy start notching / paniciking even before he has shot at you or noticed you on radar, shot another 27er as you are close about 30-25km (where radar finally has decent locking) and hope for the best it connects.
2. From low altitudes when possible get sneaky shots with 27et as they probably are more focused on your high altitude teammates and they don't notice 5.8mach missile running up to them.
2.2. Same from high to low alt - 27et / 27er meteor strike on top of their heads when possible.

[Davox]

For one second after returning to su27 - it felt like it got nerfed or something, which i have forgot about, but your explanation and myself finally remembered why i switched to USA.
Took a break a bit too long - that i forgot.
Need to git gud again.