F4S vs Mig23ML at 20k feet is biggest mismatch ever

[Thumper509]

Recently I've been switching back and forth between these two fighters to try something. Go up to 20k feet, and see how many kills I can get up there with the fox 1 missiles. The results are not even close. Not even a debate. If I go up there with the Mig-23ML (Which doesn't even have the best radar in the Mig-23 family) is almost guaranteed 2 kills as long as you have enemies up there with you. I 2 v 1'd another Mig 23 and a F4S phantom by myself. If you launch an R-24R going Mach 1.3 almost the breaking point of the Mig-23 at a range of 10 miles or less its going to kill the target 98% of the time chaff or not. My radar has kept ahold of chaff lock only to watch the target explode into a fireball.

Now if I do this same thing in the F4S which is supposedly a better aircraft all around, the results have been less than flattering. At only a BR of .3 higher the Phantom is arguably much worse at this tactic. If you get a lock on an enemy coming at you same altitude you can maintain lock, get a strong lock with the Aim-7 at 14 miles lets say. You fire. If that enemy even chaffs once or a mouse fart happens the radar loses lock, your missile detonates, and you are back at square one with an enemy on your nose and it kills you.

How in gods name is an Mig-23ML outperforming this Phantom where the F-4 is supposedly at a big advantage? I don't understand this at all. The Sparrow is supposed to be a much better missile than the R-24R but its not. Not even remotely close.

[Thumper509]

My summary is the Mig-23 is the closest thing to the Mig-25 we have in game. At high altitude nothing is catching it at the battlerating, its missile outranges everyone elses due to the speed of the aircraft, and its an area denial weapon 12 miles around it in any direction. Change my mind

[ikstarven]

typical russian bias, dont overthink it, their all knowing source definitely knows why the phantom is worse than mig23

[flat_Lander1]

Biggest skill issue ever

[Thumper509]

Originally posted by flat_Lander1:

Biggest skill issue ever

Prove it.

[Thumper509]

Originally posted by flat_Lander1:

Biggest skill issue ever

I'll even tell you the method that has worked 99% of the time. Take the R-24R's with 4 R-60M's and take the extra countermeasures. Make them all chaff. Climb to 20k like a rocket. You can usually spot a target entering the cons and thats your marker. Lock him up whenever is allowed usually about 20 miles. at range 15 miles hit full burner to get to about mach 1.6 thats when you get your speed warning. If anything locks you deploy your large and small chaff. This almost always breaks the lock even an F-14 lock. Do this every so often in vase something launched at you.

By this point you should be mach 1.6 or so with your target solid locked at about 10 miles. Charge up the missile. As soon as you see double circles for strong lock as long as your target is still somewhat pointed at you its going to smash. Your missile is already halfway to its max speed off the rail so this leaves almost no time for reaction. You can dive for the deck deploying all your chaff it wont matter. You are dead.

The Phantom? Try this same measure it won't work. The second your enemy knows you launched a missile they can react with chaff and diving and it almost ALWAYS breaks the lock. A good 85% of the time. Its been weeks of the same results. So don't tell me its a skill issue.

[Eftwyrd]

A likely apocryphal but still very appropriate quote

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

claiming ‘I have done this same thing over and over again and the same thing keeps happening does not disprove a skill issue mate.

All it tells us is you tried the same thing that hasn’t been working for you over again somehow expecting it to magically go differently the 10th, 20th or even 50th time rather than learn from it

It tells us more about you than the matchup to be totally honest

[Thumper509]

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

A likely apocryphal but still very appropriate quote

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

claiming ‘I have done this same thing over and over again and the same thing keeps happening does not disprove a skill issue mate.

All it tells us is you tried the same thing that hasn’t been working for you over again somehow expecting it to magically go differently the 20th time rather than learn from it

It was a purposeful test to see which plane performed better at that tactic. I did expect better results from the F4S this is true. My point being im shocked at the distance in ability the two planes have at this same tactic, when both were designed to do this tactic specifically. One plane on paper should have been many times better at it, simply is so much worse.

[Thumper509]

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

A likely apocryphal but still very appropriate quote

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

claiming ‘I have done this same thing over and over again and the same thing keeps happening does not disprove a skill issue mate.

All it tells us is you tried the same thing that hasn’t been working for you over again somehow expecting it to magically go differently the 10th, 20th or even 50th time rather than learn from it

It tells us more about you than the matchup to be totally honest

The tactic I found for the F4S that works the best for me is low to the ground reaction engagements. using the targeting cue to find a suitable target within 10 miles to lock and fire the Aim-7. It works about 70% of the time for me. I haven't been able to find a better tactic yet. I am still somewhat new to top tier so I am still very much learning

[Chad Chungus]

typical private profile type of post

yeah bro, youre just not good

[Thumper509]

Originally posted by Chad Chungus:

typical private profile type of post

yeah bro, youre just not good

If you insist.

[Thumper509]

Originally posted by Chad Chungus:

typical private profile type of post

yeah bro, youre just not good

I just had a match where I told the enemy in chat exactly what it was I was going to do and the enemy still couldn't stop me from getting two kills using the exact method. Both my kills? F-4 Phantoms. Chew on that for a second.

[Tankoslav Tepyatdesyatpyatovich]

But why should F-4S be able to do the same? They are airplanes of different roles and therefore capabilities.
MiG-23ML - air superiority fighter, interceptor
F-4S - fighter-bomber
Fly low, bomb stuff with the fat burger birb, enjoy EZ SL and RP.

[KFCJamal]

Brother you've made hefty claims and yet you've provided no hard data to back them up whatsoever. No match replays and you're rocking a private level 0 steam account. Kinda hard to take you at your word with no credentials.

[Thumper509]

Originally posted by KFCJamal:

Brother you've made hefty claims and yet you've provided no hard data to back them up whatsoever. No match replays and you're rocking a private level 0 steam account. Kinda hard to take you at your word with no credentials.

I've described to you the recipe perfectly. all 11 herbs and spices for an at least 2 kill match in the Mig-23ML. Pretty good chance to get the first strike money also. You don't need my replays to show you that

[Apophes]

Originally posted by ikstarven:

typical russian bias, dont overthink it, their all knowing source definitely knows why the phantom is worse than mig23

i remember that cryfest with r-73 and 77 until gaijin nerfed them. pathetic