Naval...

[K]

As one who plays all 3 of the main branches this one NEEDS costs lowered a ton, naval certainly pre 6.0 is quite a bit of fun tbh however the grind for coastal is outright absurd, I have 7.0 in USA, Germany, 6.7 in UK, 6.3 Russia for blue water, coastal is 3.3 on the lot of them with the grind being inane as I average 4-6K per game where as blue water it's nearing 10k RP

[mogami_99]

It took a while to research, buy and then upgrade the newest 8 BB/BC across all navies but i did it (thanks booster and backups)
How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time

[Hotschi48]

K has a very good point here, compared to bluewaters, the coastal RP costs are too high, way out of proportion..

Take the British Rank V coastals as example, sorted by RP costs....

.) MTB Brave Borderer, BR 3.3, 220,000 RP - Purchase 640,000 SL - Crew 185,000 SL
.) SC Peacock, BR 4.0, 250,000 RP - Purchase 700,000 SL - Crew 200,000 SL
.) PF Terra Nova, BR 4.0, 280,000 RP - Purchase 780,000 SL - Crew 220,000 SL
.) PF Blackpool, BR 3.7, 280,000 RP - Purchase 780,000 SL - Crew 220,000 SL
.) PF Leopard, BR 4.0, 320,000 RP - Purchase 860,000 SL - Crew 250,000 SL

...and then compare the British Rank V battlewagons, again sorted by RP costs...

.) BC Glorious, BR 5.7/6.0, 125,000 RP - Purchase 360,000 SL - Crew 105,000 SL
.) BB Dreadnought, BR 6.3, 175,000 RP - Purchase 490,000 SL - Crew 140,000 SL
.) BC Invincible, BR 6.0, 175,000 RP - Purchase 490,000 SL - Crew 140,000 SL
.) BB Colossus, BR 6.3, 230,000 RP - Purchase 640,000 SL - Crew 185,000 SL
.) BC Queen Mary, BR 6.3, 230,000 RP - Purchase 640,000 SL - Crew 185,000 SL
.) BB Orion, BR 6,7, 290,000 RP - Purchase 790,000 SL - Crew 230,000 SL

.. and what do you see here?

1.) 50% of the bluewaters cost less RP than each single one of the coastals
2.) All 5 coastals cost more RP than the lower half of all the bluewaters
3.) The most expensive vessel to research is....a coastal! A lousy little frigate with 2 turrets of 4.5 inch guns!

In a Top 11 price ranking it is, from top to bottom,

1.) Coastal
2.) Bluewater
3.) Coastal
4.) Coastal
5.) Coastal
6.) Bluewater
7.) Bluewater
8.) Coastal
9.) Bluewater
10.) Bluewater
11.) Bluewater

One might say these are just numbers, and that coastals and bluewaters can't be compared, but bear in mind the time and score needed to research them, and I am not even talking about the long tedious grind to spade them also.

Also bear in mind how long a coastal vessel lasts in a match, compared to a battleship or battlecruiser. In case of MTB coastals, it's sometimes just a few seconds, especially at start of the match, the frigates above spawn together with bluewaters so are immediately at a disadvantage and need to run for the most part, evading destroyers to maybe get into the coastal zone.

in battlewagons I managed many times to not lose my first spawned ship, and I am not sitting behind a rock with them....

Basically, at Rank V British coastals, you end up with vessels more expensive than half of the British bluewaters, with less life-span in battle and thus less time per match to research, let alone spade these things.

Same as with helis and tanks, there should be a option introduced to research coastals by playing the bluewaters, not right from the beginning, but maybe starting from Rank IV, or at least Rank V.

[Aeilawen]

Yeah the absurd rp costs for coastal make no sense when, gameplay wise, coastal vessels are only useful for capping points and maybe getting a lucky torpedo off. The sub-chasers, armoured boats, frigates etc that cant't even reach 50km/h? Completely useless.

[Laigon ♥]

I'm currently spading British Rank V coastal, it's a tough grind and it's only a tiny tree. With the way things are I can't see myself grinding out one of the larger coastal trees.

[mogami_99]

I only use MTB to cap point in Blue Water so my coastal trees are not complete. Some of these boats cost more then some battleships so might never fully research the tech trees. I only play coastal when I have excess boosters which is currently what I am doing but I don't have enough boosters to even finish the USN tree. Last battle using 3 booster worth 74% extra RP I earned 2700 RP on a boat that costs 280000 plus I used the boat listed as most efficient for the research (521%RP modifier for boat +110% modifier for being most efficient) USS Dealy the DE being researched does not look that amazing. Unless they add subs I doubt I will ever use it. (rank V BR 3.7)
Next battle 8754 RP OK I can live with that.
5548, 5818 used my 5 bonus missions switched to GB

[K]

To everyone here, it's more so the costs being high yes however the gain rate is pathetically low, idk if it's some intentional thing to lower the boat spam that lets be honest wins most games via cap points though either way gains must come up damn near 2X or costs come down..... something needs to happen as damn it's not popular of a mode nor blue water once you hit mid way in the trees, filling a game becomes very hard.

[256_Swerve]

I concur. Coastal progression is horrible

[mogami_99]

Originally posted by K:

To everyone here, it's more so the costs being high yes however the gain rate is pathetically low, idk if it's some intentional thing to lower the boat spam that lets be honest wins most games via cap points though either way gains must come up damn near 2X or costs come down..... something needs to happen as damn it's not popular of a mode nor blue water once you hit mid way in the trees, filling a game becomes very hard.

The higher cost coastal are not boats that a player would use to cap a point. There are many Tier I or II that can do that for much less.
Some of the higher (not all) are monster in coastal battles. They are not DD but they have crews around 200 so can kill many boats. I still don't think this justifies their high cost because they also run into real DD

[Tankoslav Tepyatdesyatpyatovich]

Originally posted by 256_Swerve:

I concur. Coastal progression is horrible

+1

A problem is, early coastal navy is somewhat of 'a game inside a game', from 1.0 br to 2.0 or even 2.3/2.7, with low costs to research and spade new boats and, while the balance and mechanics might be unfair at times, it will still often be fun and satisfying to play; but once you hit the second half of rank III and transit to rank IV...it is a new world of pain. Maps are only those designed for bluewater fleet combat, where you'll likely serve as cannon fodder, there's not much space to hide and wage combat against many other coastal ships (they become relatively rare here, from torpedo boats to sub-chasers and ferries as redundant classes), and it's just sweatlords in top USSR vessels with autocannons and some of the best torpedoes that dominate others: they have the most chances to cap zones among the first and eliminate opposing reserve boats without being even slightly harmed, and also have the mentioned torpedoes to protect those zones from incoming frigates and destroyers...truly the realm of USSR bias that tankers can't even imagine, as they don't play naval

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, like V-990 which is just 3.0 and rank III, can cap objectives and defend it and itself, with the fastest torpedoes in the whole game, and I like to bring it higher to fight against late destroyers and 5.0+ cruisers, but exceptions aren't called exceptions for nothing. And if someone wants something comparable to the Libelle - fast, with good guns to win against rank I-II boats in a fight for a cap and possibly shoot down some airplanes, small and nimble, with good torpedoes - in another nation, be ready to grind to rank IV or even V, and suffer from seasoned motor torpedo gun boats captains, beh.

[Tankoslav Tepyatdesyatpyatovich]

Originally posted by mogami_99:

The higher cost coastal are not boats that a player would use to cap a point. There are many Tier I or II that can do that for much less.

Higher tiers boats are still noticeably better in this regards.
VLT-1 and VLT-2 lose to rank I French boats in speed a bit, but finally have good (meta) armament consisting of two Bofors and additional 20mm cannons for the latter.
Italian Sparviero is on par with MAS 561 in max speed, but loses a bit in agility due to being a hydrofoil. The gun, however, is a serious argument, and boats like Freccia P-493 and Saetta P-494 can still be better than the reserve in many situations.
USA? PT-810 at rank V beats PTF-7 at rank I, better speed, better main armament, powerful torpedoes which can sink battleships. PT-811 is even better tho. USS Tucumcari and USS Flagstaff are on par/worse, and they're hydrofoils, but unlike Sparviero they don't have superior armament.
For Japan, you want to have PT-15 at least, and it's rank IV...or purchase PG 02 as their fastest vessel (but an awful vehicle otherwise, only suitable to straight up bully small innocent boats).
LS 3 with its puny torpedoes, gun and not that great speed definitely loses not only to V-990 or VS-10, but even to Schellboats. It doesn't really have much except small size.
Brave Borderer at rank V is the fastest His Majesty has at sea. People who reached it are brave for sure.
For USSR, you want to at least have Pr.123K at rank III (allows to perform many BP tasks and challenges and also participate in naval events with ease), but even it is otclassed in speed and anti-boat guns/overall balance of specs by rare TKA-412 at rank I and in torpedoes too by rank V (not)OP heavy boats (including MPK Pr.11451 which is claimed to be the fastest vessel in the game).

I'd say of all reserve boats, only MAS 561 can work reliably with its small size and high speed as a capper (but not if you face heavy opposition and/or want to prevent opponents from capping), and G-5 with its speed, sleek design and tricky damage model as a capper + killer of destroyers with potent torpedoes. PT-6, MTB-1, Type T-14, VTB-8 and others at rank I that are unlocked in a couple of battles - they are just piñatas and extra 2200 damage for destroyers and rank III+ coastal, -1 player for their team as long as such boat is alive, most of the time.

[mogami_99]

While all that is good reasoning the fact remains when I choose a MTB to cap I don't care about anything but how fast it can get there. If the enemy sends a boat to also cap the same point it is 50/50 who kills who. I use boats with arty to try to interdict the enemy approach. (where I score most my arty kills) And it does not matter if their guns are larger then mine if I hit them first. Among my MTB across all navies about 50% of their kills are enemy MTB the other 50% is larger ships my MTB go after once they have taken a cap (or sometimes two)
I do not normally play coastal so my K/D ratio for all coastal reflect they are mostly in Blue Water battles. (other then the larger slower high priced coastal that have very few missions because I don't play coastal and they are not cappers)
I am currently researching coastal boats with high RP costs I will never actually use but I have to get rid of all these boosters. I have no Blue Water that need any more research or upgrades. Now the boosters still have value for Blue water ships that are not already ACE crews. Expert crews earn experience toward ACE and the way they do it is with RP. (a much over looked use for boosters) But since coastal battles are faster and I have many coastal yet to research I am playing coastal for today . But normally I use boosters with Expert crews just to earn ACE in Blue water

[Sup_DiM0N]

I'm trying to grind costal navy and it's very slow specially the waiting time, it's usually 5 minutes...

[mogami_99]

Originally posted by Sup_DiM0N:

I'm trying to grind costal navy and it's very slow specially the waiting time, it's usually 5 minutes...

what BR? friend me and make a squad and I will help you. I am Mogami_99 in game\
wait you already know this

[K]

Originally posted by Sup_DiM0N:

I'm trying to grind costal navy and it's very slow specially the waiting time, it's usually 5 minutes...

It all depends on time of day and how many servers you have set for the game to pool from, I'm Canadian so I go with NA and EU since I'll range from 50 ping to 180, boat stuff ping isn't too brutal to deal with.

Yet yes ships as a whole isn't a popular mode and the peoples above the devs likely insisting on the usual goals to get money wise aren't helping.. heavily reduce the grind or raise the gains a ton.... mean I use 5.7-7 blue water to farm SL and it's quite consistent at doing so IF YOU PLAY arcade, that being said I do play both types in naval where as planes/tanks it's only realistic for the past 5 years.

(Japanese torpedo spam is broken if you're a goblin and spam turn)

[mogami_99]

The Japanese torpedo existed. My favorite ships are the USN treaty cruisers. They were the USN introduction to IJN torps around Guadalcanal
It is silly in arcade