PT-76 & M-51 & ikv 103 need a nerf

[Alukat]

The 400mm penetration of the M-51 is just completely out of line.
The other mediums at the BR range from 140-240mm pen.
The TDs at the BR range from 60-280mm pen.

The PT-76 heatfs is overtuned as well for that BR...

Ikv 103 with 400mm pen is overtuned as well for BR 4.0

Edit:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3435502258
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3433433244


It's stats chart states at angle of attack >73° it's supposed to be 100% richochet, yet in the protection analysis it can even pen 100% at angle of attack of 78°.
For angle of attack of 60° it's pen value should already be down to 200mm, so it would be even lower at 78°.
Something is off here.

[Alukat]

seriously, move the M-51 to BR 6.7 or so...
even if you angle your tiger well, that you get 375mm effective armor , the M-51 still goes through it like butter... this is way too strong for BR 6

[სულიკო]

Първоначално публикувано от Alukat:

seriously, move it to BR 6.7 or so...
even if you angle your tiger well, that you get 375mm effective armor , the M-51 can still go through it like butter... this is way too strong for BR 6

youre still mad that you died to an m 51? get over it and move on

[Alukat]

Първоначално публикувано от სულიკო:

youre still mad that you died to an m 51? get over it and move on

It's just crappy balance that it has such an overpowered shell that it defeats any armor at almost every angle..

[Kay]

Първоначално публикувано от Alukat:

Първоначално публикувано от სულიკო:

youre still mad that you died to an m 51? get over it and move on

It's just crappy balance that it has such an overpowered shell that it defeats any armor at almost every angle..

Look at anything other than just the penetration number for the shell the tank has, there's a reason the vast majority of people here are disagreeing with you.

[Alukat]

Първоначално публикувано от Kay:

Първоначално публикувано от Alukat:

It's just crappy balance that it has such an overpowered shell that it defeats any armor at almost every angle..

Look at anything other than just the penetration number for the shell the tank has, there's a reason the vast majority of people here are disagreeing with you.

in the BR6ish medium comparison:
it's #1 in penetration, by far.
it's #2 in turret traverse.
all but great britain have pretty much the same reload time, so it's basically #2 in reload time.
it's #4 in hull armor.
it's #6 in turret armor.
it's top speed is pretty much on par with most mediums (exception russia/china).
in terms of power-to-weight ration it's roughly on par with most other mediums.

So the claim that it would be so much worse than everything else in everything but penetration is just not true.
That it would be worse than pretty much everything else in regards to mobility/armor would only be true if it was a BR 6.7 tank.

[Riggex]

Have you actually played M-51? If its so OP, play a few battles in it and show us your insane K:D ratio you achieve.

[S!lent]

Първоначално публикувано от TheAndyboy888:

Първоначално публикувано от Alukat:

Changed the original post, as the M-51's pen value is just way to high for that BR.

Dude is about to discover the Ikv 103 at 4.0 some day with the HEAT-FS ammo...

The cry is real, but the elementary skill non existent...

LMAO.

[Kay]

Първоначално публикувано от Alukat:

Първоначално публикувано от Kay:

Look at anything other than just the penetration number for the shell the tank has, there's a reason the vast majority of people here are disagreeing with you.

in the medium comparison:
it's #1 in penetration, by far.
it's #2 in turret traverse.
all but great britain have pretty much the same reload time, so it's basically #2 in reload time.
it's #4 in hull armor.
it's #6 in turret armor.
it's top speed is pretty much on par with most mediums (exception russia/china).
in terms of power-to-weight ration it's roughly on par with most other mediums.

So the claim that it would be so much worse than everything else in everything but penetration is just not true.

A. That's not what was claimed. Nice strawman, going to ignore it.
B. Stop just reading statcards, they tell you very little about how a vehicle actually performs in battles.
C. Penetration of a shell is not everything, it's a HEAT shell, learn the differences between shell types at the absolute minimum before you start judging them purely on penetration.

For your first point, it has far less lethal rounds than the majority of mediums at that BR. High penetration but poor post penetration effect compared to the other vehicles thanks to their usage of APHE.

It's horizontal traverse speed is higher than a lot of tanks at that BR, however not by a massive amount that's actually going to make much of a difference in game.

It's reload is the worst at that BR for a medium, but not by anything significant.

It's hull armour is thin enough at low enough of an angle to be irrelevant to any AT gun of that BR, and is the worst at that BR (even the US sherman has better hull armour) since the side armour wraps around to the front.

The turret is a little trolly, but is only really more resistant on the mantlet and even then, not by enough to stop most guns of that BR.

It's top speed isn't something it reaches often, and power to weight is significantly lower than mediums at that BR (seriously, they either have 40hp more engine power and weigh nearly 8 tons less, or have 140hp more for only 4 tons more weight) the Centurion has significantly higher hp/ton, as does the M4/T26.

As should be clear, it's the least mobile medium at or around that BR, with the worst armour for a medium at that BR, and while it does have higher penetration it pays for that in reduced post penetration effect.

[Umbreawesome]

The M-51 HEAT pen doesn't even really do all that much for it. You still need to aim pretty carefully because the damage isn't all that great. Most tanks I end up shooting the gunner first and then go from there. Also the fact that in the M-51's case if you are playing without using GE to max your crews then they usually have a fairly low level crew and can frankly use any little advantage they can get. Especially since everything else can pen you since you have a sherman hull.

[Tankoslav Tepyatdesyatpyatovich]

Just play it yourself already.

I understand it might be annoying that M-51 ruined the tanking meta for German heavies that could angle and keep distance while one-tapping medium tanks, but otherwise, this tank isn't great.
I'd rather all self-propelled howitzers not designed for direct combat except ones at ranks I and II got removed from the game than M-51 got changed in a non-cosmetical way. Cos it's already balanced and not nearly as toxic.

[Marlowe-33]

Oh i notice the op is a Bratwurst muncher , now this post makes sense.

show me on the tank doll where the M-51 touched your Tiger.

[Alukat]

Първоначално публикувано от Marlowe-33:

show me on the tank doll where the M-51 touched your Tiger.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3433433244

[Alukat]

Първоначално публикувано от Пожилая Юность:

Just play it yourself already.

I understand it might be annoying that M-51 ruined the tanking meta for German heavies that could angle and keep distance while one-tapping medium tanks, but otherwise, this tank isn't great.
I'd rather all self-propelled howitzers not designed for direct combat except ones at ranks I and II got removed from the game than M-51 got changed in a non-cosmetical way. Cos it's already balanced and not nearly as toxic.

I did, i did oneshot 3 out of the 6 tanks i shot at. The other 3 did need another shot.
Survived with 4 kills and 2 assists and just took very minor damage (dead radio communicator, it is i think).
Even killed a Tiger.

[Tankoslav Tepyatdesyatpyatovich]

Първоначално публикувано от Alukat:

Първоначално публикувано от Пожилая Юность:

Just play it yourself already.

I understand it might be annoying that M-51 ruined the tanking meta for German heavies that could angle and keep distance while one-tapping medium tanks, but otherwise, this tank isn't great.
I'd rather all self-propelled howitzers not designed for direct combat except ones at ranks I and II got removed from the game than M-51 got changed in a non-cosmetical way. Cos it's already balanced and not nearly as toxic.

I did, i did oneshot 3 out of the 6 tanks in shot at. The other did need another shot.
Survived with 4 kills and 2 assists and just took very minor damage (dead radio communicator, it is i think)

And you think you wouldn't get same or better results with other 6.0 medium tanks with better mobility, armour, ballistics, faster reload, APHE shells for guaranteed oneshots, lower and narrower profile and other advantages? Moreover, in a long run.

[Alukat]

Първоначално публикувано от Пожилая Юность:

Първоначално публикувано от Alukat:

I did, i did oneshot 3 out of the 6 tanks in shot at. The other did need another shot.
Survived with 4 kills and 2 assists and just took very minor damage (dead radio communicator, it is i think)

And you think you wouldn't get same or better results with other 6.0 medium tanks with better mobility, armour, ballistics, faster reload, APHE shells for guaranteed oneshots, lower and narrower profile and other advantages? Moreover, in a long run.

Bro, that was stock M-51 with level 1 crew and i forgot to add bushes.

There are only 2 tanks that have faster reload than the M-51, that's the Charioteer mk VII (6,3) and Centurion Mk1 (5.9). Everything else has either 7.4 or 7.5s, the M-51 has 7.5s as well.

APHE shells must penetrate in the first place, which is not guaranteed at all.

wtf are you talking about when you talk about better mobility of other mediums? Only the t-34-85 and charioteer MKVII have significantly higher max speed and only the charioteer MKVII has siginificantly higher power-to-weigth ratio... Are you looking at the outdated wiki information, that still says 38km/h max and 460hp? newsflash, in the game it has 42km/h and 713hp.

Wiki also still shows 24°/s horizontal turret traverse, while ingame it show 32.6°/s