PT-76 & M-51 & ikv 103 need a nerf

[Alukat]

The 400mm penetration of the M-51 is just completely out of line.
The other mediums at the BR range from 140-240mm pen.
The TDs at the BR range from 60-280mm pen.

The PT-76 heatfs is overtuned as well for that BR...

Ikv 103 with 400mm pen is overtuned as well for BR 4.0

Edit:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3435502258
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3433433244


It's stats chart states at angle of attack >73° it's supposed to be 100% richochet, yet in the protection analysis it can even pen 100% at angle of attack of 78°.
For angle of attack of 60° it's pen value should already be down to 200mm, so it would be even lower at 78°.
Something is off here.

[davidj123456]

It’s a glass cannon. The whole point is they have a good gun.

[Tankoslav Tepyatdesyatpyatovich]

Bro you mad. Neither PT-76 nor M-51 use shells with even 10 kg of explosive. M-51 HEAT already has 1 kg TNT equivalent, and 2 kg for the useless HE. All PT-76 shells already have less than 1 kg TNT equivalent...

[Alukat]

Originally posted by Пожилая Юность:

Neither PT-76 nor M-51 use shells with even 10 kg of explosive. M-51 HEAT already has 1 kg TNT equivalent, and 2 kg for the useless HE. All PT-76 shells already have less than 1 kg TNT equivalent...

no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ way does it behave like 1kg or even less...

[Rxproject]

M-51: 1.02 kg.
PT-76B: APHE 49.28 g.
Heatfs 550 g.
HE 621 g.

....no comment...

[Alukat]

Originally posted by Rxproject:

M-51: 1.02 kg.
PT-76B: APHE 49.28 g.
Heatfs 550 g.
HE 621 g.

....no comment...

i have 1.1kg on my Waffenträger, it's damage doesn't even come close to their damage... so no way does their damage behave like the shown values.

[Tankoslav Tepyatdesyatpyatovich]

Originally posted by Alukat:

Originally posted by Пожилая Юность:

Neither PT-76 nor M-51 use shells with even 10 kg of explosive. M-51 HEAT already has 1 kg TNT equivalent, and 2 kg for the useless HE. All PT-76 shells already have less than 1 kg TNT equivalent...

no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ way does it behave like 1kg or even less...

9-10 (or even more) kg of TNT is the amount stored in HE used by 152-155mm rank IV-V SPHs, with 60+ mm of penetration in a sphere. May I see some evidence for PT-76 or M-51 shell overpressuring a roof of a Tiger or Panther when hitting their gun mantlet or commander's cupola, for example? They must be capable of it if you claim they behave like they have 10-20 kg of TNT.

[Alukat]

Originally posted by Пожилая Юность:

Originally posted by Alukat:

no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ way does it behave like 1kg or even less...

9-10 (or even more) kg of TNT is the amount stored in HE used by 152-155mm rank IV-V SPHs, with 60+ mm of penetration in a sphere. May I see some evidence for PT-76 or M-51 shell overpressuring a roof of a Tiger or Panther when hitting their gun mantlet or commander's cupola, for example? They must be capable of it if you claim they behave like they have 10-20 kg of TNT.

They don't even need to go for such weak spots... they pretty much can donk their shell anywhere at your tiger/panther and half of your crew is dead/injured and modules damaged...

[TheAndyboy888]

Originally posted by Alukat:

Originally posted by Rxproject:

M-51: 1.02 kg.
PT-76B: APHE 49.28 g.
Heatfs 550 g.
HE 621 g.

....no comment...

i have 1.1kg on my Waffenträger, it's damage doesn't even come close to their damage... so no way does their damage behave like the shown values.

No wonder why are you laming with the Waffentrager. If you are speaking about 1.1kg of TNT value on your ammo, then you are clearly using the HEAT ammo, which is completely ♥♥♥♥ and broken and doesn't depend on tanks you are playing.
Start using PzGr 39/43 which is the stock APHE ammo. That is the best ammo type for the 88mm gun. One shot at the enemy ends in 99% situations with a kill.

[Rxproject]

Originally posted by Alukat:

Originally posted by Rxproject:

M-51: 1.02 kg.
PT-76B: APHE 49.28 g.
Heatfs 550 g.
HE 621 g.

....no comment...

i have 1.1kg on my Waffenträger, it's damage doesn't even come close to their damage... so no way does their damage behave like the shown values.

Waffentrager HEAT: 600m/s, 110mm pen.
M-51 HEAT: 800m/s, 400mm pen.

Waffentrager APCBC: 100m/s, 180mm pen at 2000m, 108g TNT.

You don't understand (or don't want to understand) how shells work and you base your judgement solely on the mass of explosive without taking other factors into account.
A Waffentrager firing HEAT is a waste of the tank's potential. It's like playing the Tiger with HE.

[Tankoslav Tepyatdesyatpyatovich]

Originally posted by Alukat:

Originally posted by Пожилая Юность:

9-10 (or even more) kg of TNT is the amount stored in HE used by 152-155mm rank IV-V SPHs, with 60+ mm of penetration in a sphere. May I see some evidence for PT-76 or M-51 shell overpressuring a roof of a Tiger or Panther when hitting their gun mantlet or commander's cupola, for example? They must be capable of it if you claim they behave like they have 10-20 kg of TNT.

They don't even need to go for such weak spots... they pretty much can donk their shell anywhere at your tiger/panther and half of your crew is dead/injured and modules damaged...

Uhm...because that's what one would expect from a 76.2mm APHE (with 49 g of TNT) and 105mm HEAT (pretty wide Munroe jet to hit crewmembers sitting close to each other and modules along them)? A good post-pen damage? If those shells actually behaved like having 10-20 kg of TNT, you wouldn't have 'half of your crew dead/injured and modules damaged', you would have an entire tank annihilated without a single undamaged module inside.

[Alukat]

Originally posted by Rxproject:

M-51 HEAT: 800m/s, 400mm pen.

meanwhile TDs at that BR 60-280mm pen...

Originally posted by Rxproject:

A Waffentrager firing HEAT is a waste of the tank's potential.

ik, because it's weak af...
btw, the BR difference between the Waffenträger (TD) and M-51 (medium tank) is only 0.3

[Tankoslav Tepyatdesyatpyatovich]

Originally posted by TheAndyboy888:

No wonder why are you laming with the Waffentrager. If you are speaking about 1.1kg of TNT value on your ammo, then you are clearly using the HEAT ammo, which is completely ♥♥♥♥ and broken and doesn't depend on tanks you are playing.
Start using PzGr 39/43 which is the stock APHE ammo. That is the best ammo type for the 88mm gun. One shot at the enemy ends in 99% situations with a kill.

Originally posted by Rxproject:

Waffentrager HEAT: 600m/s, 110mm pen.
M-51 HEAT: 800m/s, 400mm pen.

Waffentrager APCBC: 100m/s, 180mm pen at 2000m, 108g TNT.

You don't understand (or don't want to understand) how shells work and you base your judgement solely on the mass of explosive without taking other factors into account.
A Waffentrager firing HEAT is a waste of the tank's potential. It's like playing the Tiger with HE.

TBH I still wonder why Germans used HEAT even for Tiger I Kwk 36 gun, a seemingly useless shell against both armoured targets and light vehicles/infantry compared to great AP rounds and HE shells respectively, not to mention Kwk/Pak 43 where it's absolutely rudimentary..

[Tankoslav Tepyatdesyatpyatovich]

Originally posted by Alukat:

Originally posted by Rxproject:

M-51: 1.02 kg.
PT-76B: APHE 49.28 g.
Heatfs 550 g.
HE 621 g.

....no comment...

i have 1.1kg on my Waffenträger, it's damage doesn't even come close to their damage... so no way does their damage behave like the shown values.

M8 HMC, LVT(A)(4), M4A3 (105), Germans and Italians with 75mm Kwk/Pak 37 (from Pz IV C at 1.3 to Pz III N at 3.0), StuH 42 G, Brummbär probably (Not sure, I don't own it), ISU-152, Alecto I, I-Go ko, Chi-Ha, Ho-I, BT-42, Sav m/43 (1946), M-51/M-51 (W), AMX-30 (before they get darts), P40, Turan II, Zrinyi II and all domestic Italian with M41 or M43 in their name are the only vehicle for which it makes sense to bring HEAT (not HEAT-FS or anti-tank grenades, which are more modern shell types and have much greater penetration for similar calibers) as main or additional shell as it has more penetration than the rest. T-34, SU-76, SU-122, Tiger I, Germans with long acht-achts etc. may have HEAT in their arsenal, but it just sucks compared to the big HE with good overpenetration capability or AP(HE) that flies faster and penetrates more, not to mention better post-pen damage.

[Alukat]

Changed the original post, as the M-51's pen value is just way to high for that BR.

[TheAndyboy888]

Originally posted by Alukat:

Changed the original post, as the M-51's pen value is just way to high for that BR.

Dude is about to discover the Ikv 103 at 4.0 some day with the HEAT-FS ammo...

The cry is real, but the elementary skill non existent...