Su-34 and the current state of SPAA

[GaugeSix]

Take Japan for example, this game has become less enjoyable(imo) due to the lack of ability to fight back. Take the Su-34 carrying either Kh-38MT (20km IR) or Kh-8ML(40km laser) vs japans TOP TIER SPAA the type 81c sitting at 11.3.

The type 81 missile has a maximum range of 10KM firing its optical/IR missile. I wont get into the absolute jank of this missile and the struggles of it getting a lock, but even to acquire a lock you need a target within 10km. How in the world are some nations supposed to even fight back? It's an absolute seal-club fest.

I understand introducing new and modern mechanics, but its a video game at the end of the day that people invest hundreds upon hundreds of hours to just to get one nation top tier. Other nations need the capabilities to fight back, to have an SPAA comparable to the panstir (to some degree)

[^4Steel ^1Jackal^2~FYANB~]

i had a realization recently in regards to cas.
instead of taking an SPAA with you into battle, why not take a fighter?
cas is optimized to kill ground targets, so if you bring a dogfighter with you then you should have an easy enough time shooting them down, right?
the point of an spaa is to kill cas, and the point of a dogfighter is also to kill cas.
why not fight plane with plane?

[bunny]

Originally posted by ^4Steel ^1Jackal^2~FYANB~:

i had a realization recently in regards to cas.
instead of taking an SPAA with you into battle, why not take a fighter?
cas is optimized to kill ground targets, so if you bring a dogfighter with you then you should have an easy enough time shooting them down, right?
the point of an spaa is to kill cas, and the point of a dogfighter is also to kill cas.
why not fight plane with plane?

Because it's called ground battles.

[^4Steel ^1Jackal^2~FYANB~]

Originally posted by bunny bunny bunny:

Because it's called ground battles.

ok, your right, and yes i would prefer it if there were no aircraft in ground battles, but that dosnt change the fact that the devs said it will remain a combined arms game.
you can either play an ineffective spaa and play duck hunt with the planes, get in a plane yourself and have a far better time shooting down cas, or you can go play a different game.

take your pick.

personally i chose to start grinding airplanes so i can have a fighter and then laugh at the cas planes that arent equipped for dogfights

[biomike]

Originally posted by ^4Steel ^1Jackal^2~FYANB~:

i had a realization recently in regards to cas.
instead of taking an SPAA with you into battle, why not take a fighter?
cas is optimized to kill ground targets, so if you bring a dogfighter with you then you should have an easy enough time shooting them down, right?
the point of an spaa is to kill cas, and the point of a dogfighter is also to kill cas.
why not fight plane with plane?

The plane requires more spawn points to get and for some reason pure AA loadout costs more then air to ground loadouts
Add into that Russia has the most powerful SPAA that outranges any other and you have a situation where you cant fight back

[^4Steel ^1Jackal^2~FYANB~]

Originally posted by biomike:

The plane requires more spawn points to get and for some reason pure AA loadout costs more then air to ground loadouts

ok now see that is a good point for talking about balance.
maybe the sp requirements of AA loadouts could be reduced to encourage more people to bring them, making it more viable to deal with cas

[GaugeSix]

Originally posted by ^4Steel ^1Jackal^2~FYANB~:

i had a realization recently in regards to cas.
instead of taking an SPAA with you into battle, why not take a fighter?
cas is optimized to kill ground targets, so if you bring a dogfighter with you then you should have an easy enough time shooting them down, right?
the point of an spaa is to kill cas, and the point of a dogfighter is also to kill cas.
why not fight plane with plane?

That isn't the point. Of course you can do that. The point is the extreme unbalance that were facing and how you literally cannot use spaa in some situations based on nation

[canceros]

Biggest + of su34... Doesn't face pantsir...
Noticed M247 can lock on and intercept missiles
Otherwise

Originally posted by ^4Steel ^1Jackal^2~FYANB~:

instead of taking an SPAA with you into battle, why not take a fighter?

[Ryo Takagero]

Originally posted by canceros:

Biggest + of su34... Doesn't face pantsir...

it does, not so often as other countries, but yeah, there is a big need of new SPAA

[spartakisteqc]

Originally posted by ^4Steel ^1Jackal^2~FYANB~:

Originally posted by bunny bunny bunny:

Because it's called ground battles.

ok, your right, and yes i would prefer it if there were no aircraft in ground battles, but that dosnt change the fact that the devs said it will remain a combined arms game.
you can either play an ineffective spaa and play duck hunt with the planes, get in a plane yourself and have a far better time shooting down cas, or you can go play a different game.

take your pick.

personally i chose to start grinding airplanes so i can have a fighter and then laugh at the cas planes that arent equipped for dogfights

Some people like me aren't too good in flight simulators and don't play air as a result. We have to make do with SPAA.

In the lastest question and answer this month, Gaijin has finally acknowledged that statistically, the large amount of new CAS/attack helicopters that they introduced and the munitions that decisively outrange the current AA has decisively shifted the balance toward the airforce and lead it to dominate the ground battles. They're supposed to add new SAMs with longer range next year and are thinking about how to implement them.

But this isn't enough. I think that what is needed is to increase the spawn point cost of CAS/helicopters across the board. It should be a precious ressource not to be squandered and the cost should rise sky high after the first air asset that you spawn. Currently, you can spawn an aircraft with full CAS loadout after capturing a point or scouting a little and as a CAS, you will earn enough to spawn another CAS after each death. It's absolutely ridiculous and it makes the game unfun to everyone.

A lot of people forget that CAS is in ground battle only for one thing: quickly clear off enemies that are stopping your team from advancing. After you've dropped your load, you're a liability to your team. You shouldn't be around more than a few minutes after that, you're way more needed on the ground with a tank to help your team win.

I've lost way too many games because most of my team was in the air inefficiently straffing stuff with nobody capping objectives. CAS isn't there to bolster players failing IRL sense of self-worth. It's there to help your team win. And aircrafts ain't going to capture the B point.

[legaroojack]

A lot of people who don't play top tier haven't yet realised how far top tier CAS is compared to top tier SPAA, and the people who know yet still defend it are almost always CAS players who want easy kills.

[Smokey]

This isn't just a SU-34 problem, it's a problem with most top tier CAS in general. More nations need better AA, and guided munitions or CAS loadouts in general need to be much more expensive to spawn in (this is something they could immediately do, i don't understand why this hasn't been done yet)

[nirvana_sth]

Originally posted by ^4Steel ^1Jackal^2~FYANB~:

i had a realization recently in regards to cas.
instead of taking an SPAA with you into battle, why not take a fighter?
cas is optimized to kill ground targets, so if you bring a dogfighter with you then you should have an easy enough time shooting them down, right?
the point of an spaa is to kill cas, and the point of a dogfighter is also to kill cas.
why not fight plane with plane?

This is not easy.
SPAA costs like 70 sp and a plane like 800. If the enemy is spawning Su-34s it means your side isn't doing great. Also the side that flies Su-34 gets a strong air defence in the shape of pantsir as well.
Just to clarify im a Su-34 user myself.

[xCrossFaith]

Japan is one of my main nations

While I agree it's lacking in SPAA, it has the F-15 with 8 AIM-120's, so not only has the ability to fight back, but can do it in literally the most effective way with the best air to air missiles in the game.

The problem with this whole situation that most of the community simply refuses to aknowledge for whatever the ♥♥♥♥ reason, is that you here are talking about Su-34's, Type 81's and I mentioned the F-15, which are played along Leopard 2's and Abrams

The problem is, that you can go back where you lineup is composed of Chi-Nu's, Tigers, Spitfires, Stukas and Ostwinds, and you will get the same maps and game modes.

[Gramr]

Nah, 6 AIM-120 for my F-16C cost like 150 sp and any guided anti ground weapon starts from like 400 sp something like that.

[bastion of pragmatism]

CAS should out range AA, full stop. Get a fighter