Pantsir's and Kh38s. How they've ruined top tier.

[AstroSlamacow]

When the Pantsir came out, it dominated air defense. Not a single anti-air in the game is comparable to the Pantsir as of current. Now you can make the claim that the FlakRakRad ITO, and TOR can compare, no, it's not even funny.

I have spent countless instances in which I get in a jet to fight against a Pantsir, just trying to attempt to kill one, it's so difficult. I place 4 AGM65s on targets around the map, maybe one or two on a Pantsir, and they just shoot them down, there's not even a chance against them. I want to get somewhat close to gun them down since I can't hit them with a missile, their radar senses me through trees, they send a barrage of rounds that incidentally create a death wall for me to dodge, then I'm nailed by a missile that proxy detonates on me 9m away and rips my wing off.

The only way I can properly kill a smart Panstir player is if they're already occupied with shooting down my team mates, otherwise I can't even get close to them if they're competent. I swear the only SURE way to kill a competent Pantsir player anymore is by dumping 13 spikes on a single one, because I know they'll shoot down 12 of them, and die to the last one. Feels like this is the only sure way of killing one these days.

Now this isn't to say that a competent ITO or TOR is easy to kill, because they're not. They'll generally get me, and props to them! But a Pantsir, it's hard to find an anti-air that can just compare in the slightest to it. It's not even fun to get in a jet because there has been so many instances of spawning in and INSTANTLY getting a missile launch warning, having to hit the deck instantly. If I want to put my AGMs out they just shoot them down.
But now you see if a Su-30SM gets in a jet, they spawn in and dump their 6 KH-38 missiles that nearly hit every single time. I can occasionally shoot them down in my ITO and save one or two team mates but those missiles are faster than the speed of light, I can't shoot down all 6 of them before they nail my team mates.

The only way I have found properly effective on trashing these missiles as a ground tank, is if you have LWS, and even if you do the warning pops up for a split second, just enough for me to notice, air scout them, and then proceed to pop smokes and pray to god, because a solid 30-40% of the time I pop smokes and sit dead center in them, the missile STILL gets me. The only way I can near guarantee trashing it is if I'm in a city, otherwise now I'm a sitting duck in a field who just popped smokes and now is an sore thumb sticking out just ASKING for a tank to send a round through my smoke at me. It's not even fun to play against Russia because all they do is get 3-4 kills, spawn, pump and dump, re-arm, rinse and repeat. And nearly all of their missiles will connect if the user doesn't do the tactics I presented above or dies before the missile hits.

Now I'm sure I'm about to see a lot of Russia mains yelling at me and telling me skill issue in the comments, but a lot of the player base that fight Russia will agree with me on nearly every point I've made. More recently I've tried to avoid playing top tier, or try to queue countries that generally queue with Russia so I don't have to fight the utter hellish missile spam that Russia has now.

I find it very comical that a few years ago it was "US mains get in jets instantly like, they're playing ARB." but now it's completely changed, now it's Russia CAS spamming every top tier match and we can't do anything about it if the players are just semi competent. I've found myself playing FRANCE, instead of playing top tier Sweden, US, Japan, Germany, and Israel, to avoid playing against Russia top tier. I wish we could jack the SP of CAS in general so we don't have to deal with GRB turning into ARB. And maybe add an anti-air that can compare to a Pantsir.

Hey maybe it's all a skill issue as I often get told, but I truly feel that the numbers speak volumes. Let me know what you guys think below. Please keep it civil.

[Golden Knight]

Well i guess they do the role if an AA?
What you mean bro be more specific
No one goes up fires and thinks enemy wont hit them they are SAM (surface to air) very different than amraam (air medium range air to air missile) so dont play here like how you play air rb
Kh38 needs 900 sp so when an enemy spawn in 1 kill him and he is gone just use the environment or take a fighter and intercept.
The winners always come with team work if you single handly play yes you will suffer vs any nation.

[bastion of pragmatism]

Listen mate, no one is reading all of that. You have an m1 abrams as your picture so I'm going to make a read here and say you are raging about Russian bias, as per usual. Go play as a Russian vehicle and get molly wopped and then come back.

[AstroSlamacow]

Originally posted by Golden Knight:

Well i guess they do the role if an AA?
What you mean bro be more specific
No one goes up fires and thinks enemy wont hit them they are SAM (surface to air) very different than amraam (air medium range air to air missile) so dont play here like how you play air rb
Kh38 needs 900 sp so when an enemy spawn in 1 kill him and he is gone just use the environment or take a fighter and intercept.
The winners always come with team work if you single handly play yes you will suffer vs any nation.

I was extremely specific in the problems with the Pantsir and KH-38 missles, it seems as if you ignored all of my points.

[AstroSlamacow]

Originally posted by bastion of pragmatism:

Listen mate, no one is reading all of that. You have an m1 abrams as your picture so I'm going to make a read here and say you are raging about Russian bias, as per usual. Go play as a Russian vehicle and get molly wopped and then come back.

Ah yes, see this is what I was talking about in what I discussed above, thank you for proving my point good sir!

Also sorry that I think the Abrams is a cool looking tank, that's not to say I'd like to play it in War Thunder, also I have played Russia many times and it's not my play style, I think it's a very point and click nation and it's not for me.

Thanks for your input.

[Pooni]

go post on reddit. skill issue

[AstroSlamacow]

Originally posted by Pooni:

go post on reddit. skill issue

Thank you for proving my point good sir!

Thanks for your input.

[B-BRAIN]

Originally posted by AstroSlamacow:

Originally posted by bastion of pragmatism:

Listen mate, no one is reading all of that. You have an m1 abrams as your picture so I'm going to make a read here and say you are raging about Russian bias, as per usual. Go play as a Russian vehicle and get molly wopped and then come back.

Ah yes, see this is what I was talking about in what I discussed above, thank you for proving my point good sir!

Also sorry that I think the Abrams is a cool looking tank, that's not to say I'd like to play it in War Thunder, also I have played Russia many times and it's not my play style, I think it's a very point and click nation and it's not for me.

Thanks for your input.

Not your playstyle ? You point your gun and shoot, does not matter what pixel tank you use . tanks react different etc that is true.

[Glorified Badass]

As per usual: Russian supporters deep throating the boot and denying everything whenever there is a valid argument put up.

[AstroSlamacow]

Originally posted by Glorified Badass:

As per usual: Russian supporters deep throating the boot and denying everything whenever there is a valid argument put up.

Yup! It was really funny that I managed to predict half of their messages, none of them want to read and have a debate, just anger! Being civil I find is very rare to see among Russian mains these days. Thanks for reading my post!

[B-BRAIN]

Originally posted by AstroSlamacow:

Originally posted by Glorified Badass:

As per usual: Russian supporters deep throating the boot and denying everything whenever there is a valid argument put up.

Yup! It was really funny that I managed to predict half of their messages, none of them want to read and have a debate, just anger! Being civil I find is very rare to see among Russian mains these days. Thanks for reading my post!

Ever thought that all people suffer from air. Even people who use air ?
Youre in combat with other tank and blam , you get blasted by something 10 km away.
Or spawning in, driving to support your team or whatever you do and blam tank destroyed by something you cannot destroy in your tank or have no clue he has you targeted.

And the argument of russian main etc is very short sighted,

[AstroSlamacow]

Originally posted by B-BRAIN:

Originally posted by AstroSlamacow:

Yup! It was really funny that I managed to predict half of their messages, none of them want to read and have a debate, just anger! Being civil I find is very rare to see among Russian mains these days. Thanks for reading my post!

Ever thought that all people suffer from air. Even people who use air ?
Youre in combat with other tank and blam , you get blasted by something 10 km away.
Or spawning in, driving to support your team or whatever you do and blam tank destroyed by something you cannot destroy in your tank or have no clue he has you targeted.

And the argument of russian main etc is very short sighted,

I get the feeling that those above who weren't willing to read or call it a skill issue are likely russia mains. I'm not denying the fact that every nation suffers to an extent, it just feels like nations suffer more facing Russia as a result of Pantsirs and KH-38 missiles. I'm sure the statistics on those jets/anti airs also prove this.

[AstroSlamacow]

Originally posted by B-BRAIN:

Originally posted by AstroSlamacow:

Ah yes, see this is what I was talking about in what I discussed above, thank you for proving my point good sir!

Also sorry that I think the Abrams is a cool looking tank, that's not to say I'd like to play it in War Thunder, also I have played Russia many times and it's not my play style, I think it's a very point and click nation and it's not for me.

Thanks for your input.

Not your playstyle ? You point your gun and shoot, does not matter what pixel tank you use . tanks react different etc that is true.

I much prefer a more laid back sniping experience and I find that the Japanese TKX/Type 10s and Type 90s fit that really well, they have trash armor but are really good at shoot and scoot tactics.

When I say point in click I mean that in the sense that I find myself w keying into a map getting 4 kills, dying and respawning in another T-80, just not my thing. Every tank is best played a certain way.

[bastion of pragmatism]

"Look guys, i was pretending to be brain dead, you fell for it, haha!" ahh responses to urself

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by AstroSlamacow:

When the Pantsir came out, it dominated air defense. Not a single anti-air in the game is comparable to the Pantsir as of current. Now you can make the claim that the FlakRakRad ITO, and TOR can compare, no, it's not even funny.

I have spent countless instances in which I get in a jet to fight against a Pantsir, just trying to attempt to kill one, it's so difficult.

As it should be, this gamemod called "ground rb" for a reason.

However,

Originally posted by AstroSlamacow:

It's not even fun to get in a jet because there has been so many instances of spawning in and INSTANTLY getting a missile launch warning, having to hit the deck instantly.

camping either way is bad and unfun, and solution to that is simple - just put spawnpoints out of SPAA's reach (you are in a jet anyway, +- 10km away from battlefield won't matter much) or make everyone spawn at airfield (can't camp plane that can't be seen).

Originally posted by AstroSlamacow:

But a Pantsir, it's hard to find an anti-air that can just compare in the slightest to it.

This is the core of an issue. If everyone had equivalent SPAA on every BR that required to be either taken down by team effort or caught off guard, one nation getting new more effective CAS wouldn't be such a problem, as opposing teams would not have more SPAAs waiting for enemy to strike.

I can't say anything about Pantsir because I don't play at top tier, but at other BR's that I played SPAA up to 8.3 absolutely suck and pose no threat to self-aware pilots whatsoever and even at 8.3+ their effectiveness is questionable at best, anyone who isn't completely retarded either bombing from space or sticking to the ground, popping from hills at 800 km/h+, dropping payload/shooting papertanks and hiding again - missiles don't go through mountains and don't reach that high.

Even if, as you said, Pantsir can can shoot down munitions sent from space, I have no idea how it can deal with plane that is visible only for a few seconds. If this is the only SPAA that can do that, and then very same nation gets CAS that doesn't have to deal with Pantsir, then yeah, situations is absolutely ridiculous and has to be fixed asap.

If Pantsir is really that good, I think that all SPAA should be either buffed to it's level, have their BR lowered to be able to match planes on their level or both - and then every new br WT should get SPAA first (for all nations), and then matching it CAS next.

One thing we can say for sure: neither is happening anytime soon

[AstroSlamacow]

Originally posted by bastion of pragmatism:

"Look guys, i was pretending to be brain dead, you fell for it, haha!" ahh responses to urself

I don't know what you're trying to do but you just keep proving my point, so thanks I guess?