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Help me out here, how do guys keep seeing me before i can even see part of them
https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/322195677611757403?public_key=UOWlwLc8M1wOUKRPSEy9


In this replay, on A point, a guy shoots be before my gun can even see part of him.

This happens a lot, how can i improve and not have this happen in almost all instances, are US tanks just that much wider?

Also tips on gameplay would help, im slamming my head into the desk more often than id like to admit here
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Ultra Low Quality settings, it removes A LOT of clutter and terrain obstructions

People who use it say that it was fixed some time ago, it was made less ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, but it still gives a big advantage
I run most everything on low, except textures, terrain def, aa, n so on that helps me see everything, but not be cluttered, im speaking of their gunner can see the main body of my tank before i can even see the edge of theirs
Originally posted by Lancebringer:
I run most everything on low, except textures, terrain def, aa, n so on that helps me see everything, but not be cluttered, im speaking of their gunner can see the main body of my tank before i can even see the edge of theirs
It's all about object permanence.

Just because you can't see them from your gun, doesn't mean the can't see you.

In the same way if you duck your eyeline under a table, the top of your head could still be exposed/seen.
Or peaking slowly around a corner, your ear would be visible before your eye would see the person observing you
Last edited by Canadian Guitar; Mar 26 @ 1:48pm
A lot about this isn’t them seeing you so much as predicting where you’ll be and just being ready for it. Might offer specific insight once I’m somewhere that I can watch the replay though. Still, I can imagine what it looks like and I get kills like that all the time, where I’m just looking at a spot someone is likely to come from and I just fire before they have a chance to even look for me. Comes with map knowledge.
Glorified Badass (Banned) Mar 26 @ 2:05pm 
Sound whoring is a big one, that or you have been spotted, and some tanks (especially some German Panzer's) have a nice hatch peeping over the top of cover. Not to mention they see your engine emissions. Or even good ol fashioned map knowledge.
Please watch the replay, im within 15 meters of the other tank, which is usually how this goes, my tank, cannot see even the corner of their tank, not even a pixel, and theyre shooting me mid tank
Ah, so you're talking about the Wiesel when you were in the Sheridan right? So, in that scenario you have to consider the shape of your tank. He's in a tiny little vehicle with a rapid fire autocannon, specifically one that is positioned at the rear of the vehicle. This means that, when he's aiming at you with his back to you, the gun is basically the first thing peeking. this means that nearly none of his vehicle is visible before the gun can be on target. Now your vehicle is a bit more tank shaped, with a turret positioned more in the middle of the vehicle. This means that, when peeking a corner, your hull is exposed before the gun is, unlike his. If he can get a shot on your chassis, specifically from the side like he did, he can get rounds into your tank and possibly hit ammo or knock out crew before you can even see him.

You might get a better idea of it if you go back and watch again, but watch from his perspective rather than yours.

This is a common thing players often fail at and a common example I typically see is in low tier Shermans. They peek the corner completely side on, parallel with the cover itself. By doing this, when they peek, the hull of the Sherman where the driver is gets completely exposed to the enemy before the gun is and a well placed shot can stop the Sherman in its tracks before the gun is around the cover to shoot. Instead, they should be a distance from the cover so they can expose their armor at an angle. This increases its effective protection, but also places the turret closer to the cover, meaning less of the vehicle needs to be exposed before the turret can see.

Basically, what you needed to have done is get further from the rock and approach with more of your front armor facing him than the side armor. This would allow your gun to see him sooner. Given you're also in a lightly armored vehicle facing an autocannon, you also probably should have pushed with more speed as it wasn't likely that you'd take many hits before he got you as he could easily penetrate you and that speed might've lowered the number of shots he got before you could fire. In any case, it wasn't a good matchup for you, he very much had the advantage there.

The one thing you might've been able to do here, is overpressure him. Given how light his vehicle is, just landing HE next to him might've been enough to do him in, without even seeing his vehicle. Protection analysis shots that basically any direct hit from any of your ammo types would be enough to do him in, so even a shot on the ground next to him would have done it. You just needed to approach with your chassis facing him instead of side on. Always angle yourself or approach straight on. Both are better than approaching side-on like that unless your turret is either very forward on the tank or further back but you're approaching from reverse.

To really get a feel for it, look at the AMX M24, its basically an M24 Chaffee, but the turret sits even further back on the chassis. Now imagine pushing that guy in that same scenario. Your entire hull is basically fully visible to him before the turret would see him. Should give a better representation. Unlike in a standard shooter where your first person view is nearly your whole body, a tank has a body that extends further horizontally. So its very much possible to be hit before the enemy can see your turret. As long as they can kill you through that part they see, they don't need to wait until you can see them and he could easily hit ammo in the front hull of your tank as well as have shrapnel bounce up into your turret crew.

You just need to be more spatially aware of your tank's hull instead of just the turret.
Originally posted by Chaoslink:
Ah, so you're talking about the Wiesel when you were in the Sheridan right? So, in that scenario you have to consider the shape of your tank. He's in a tiny little vehicle with a rapid fire autocannon, specifically one that is positioned at the rear of the vehicle. This means that, when he's aiming at you with his back to you, the gun is basically the first thing peeking. this means that nearly none of his vehicle is visible before the gun can be on target. Now your vehicle is a bit more tank shaped, with a turret positioned more in the middle of the vehicle. This means that, when peeking a corner, your hull is exposed before the gun is, unlike his. If he can get a shot on your chassis, specifically from the side like he did, he can get rounds into your tank and possibly hit ammo or knock out crew before you can even see him.

You might get a better idea of it if you go back and watch again, but watch from his perspective rather than yours.

This is a common thing players often fail at and a common example I typically see is in low tier Shermans. They peek the corner completely side on, parallel with the cover itself. By doing this, when they peek, the hull of the Sherman where the driver is gets completely exposed to the enemy before the gun is and a well placed shot can stop the Sherman in its tracks before the gun is around the cover to shoot. Instead, they should be a distance from the cover so they can expose their armor at an angle. This increases its effective protection, but also places the turret closer to the cover, meaning less of the vehicle needs to be exposed before the turret can see.

Basically, what you needed to have done is get further from the rock and approach with more of your front armor facing him than the side armor. This would allow your gun to see him sooner. Given you're also in a lightly armored vehicle facing an autocannon, you also probably should have pushed with more speed as it wasn't likely that you'd take many hits before he got you as he could easily penetrate you and that speed might've lowered the number of shots he got before you could fire. In any case, it wasn't a good matchup for you, he very much had the advantage there.

The one thing you might've been able to do here, is overpressure him. Given how light his vehicle is, just landing HE next to him might've been enough to do him in, without even seeing his vehicle. Protection analysis shots that basically any direct hit from any of your ammo types would be enough to do him in, so even a shot on the ground next to him would have done it. You just needed to approach with your chassis facing him instead of side on. Always angle yourself or approach straight on. Both are better than approaching side-on like that unless your turret is either very forward on the tank or further back but you're approaching from reverse.

To really get a feel for it, look at the AMX M24, its basically an M24 Chaffee, but the turret sits even further back on the chassis. Now imagine pushing that guy in that same scenario. Your entire hull is basically fully visible to him before the turret would see him. Should give a better representation. Unlike in a standard shooter where your first person view is nearly your whole body, a tank has a body that extends further horizontally. So its very much possible to be hit before the enemy can see your turret. As long as they can kill you through that part they see, they don't need to wait until you can see them and he could easily hit ammo in the front hull of your tank as well as have shrapnel bounce up into your turret crew.

You just need to be more spatially aware of your tank's hull instead of just the turret.

So how does this work on the same body tanks I face with other nations?
Doesnt matter what tank it is, they always see a part of my body and i cannot see theirs.

I shoot explicitly from the gunners view as the third person always misses for me, that GIGANTIC circle doesnt tell me where its going to hit
Originally posted by Lancebringer:
So how does this work on the same body tanks I face with other nations?
Doesnt matter what tank it is, they always see a part of my body and i cannot see theirs.
If its say Sherman on Sherman or something similar, this comes down to a lot of factors. The same issue comes up with the angle you approach from. Look at a Sherman from the front and one from the side. You can see from the side that a lot of vehicle is to the left and right of the turret. So if you're side on to the enemy and they're front on to you, they'll get the same shot the guy in the replay got you with, lower hull shot through the side.

If instead you both are facing one another, there are still shots that you can take (assuming you have the penetration) on the front hull before the turret can see you. In many of those cases, you should try to get visual on just their track and hit that. This often leads to a more panic mentality from your opponent because now their mobility is restricted and it gives you an advantage. In many cases, they'll straighten up and face you directly as it gives you less of their vehicle to shoot when you peek and therefore requires you to peek more to see them, possibly giving them a shot on you.

I'd recommend looking up some tutorial videos for clearing rooms, like police or military personnel going in and clearing rooms and peeking corners and such. While human to human stuff like that isn't the same as tank to tank, many of the basic concepts and principles still apply. For instance, when peeking a corner, you often don't want to do it from right up against the corner, instead you want to round the corner from deeper in the room as the greater distance shrinks the angle the enemy can see you in. Think about it, how big is an object right up in front of you compared to that same object 100m away? Its much smaller when further away. So if that object is actually a hostile trying to peek you, the angle you have on them the moment you can see them is nearly their entire self rather than just a small part of them. So if you do have to peek, do so from a distance.

Also, bear in mind that latency is going to play a factor and the stationary target will typically always have the advantage as a result.

Originally posted by Lancebringer:

I shoot explicitly from the gunners view as the third person always misses for me, that GIGANTIC circle doesnt tell me where its going to hit
As for the circle, its actually not the big circle you want to pay attention to, its the smaller one that you don't actually control. You'll notice that the little circle will sort of snap to various objects, even when the big one isn't over them. This is because the big circle might not have collision with that object, but the barrel doesn't have direct line of sight due to the obstruction. You can really see this in action when trying to peek over something, as the circle will snap to the object when you don't have clearance. That smaller circle does actually give a good impression of where that round is going to go, though "sniper" mode looking through the gunsight does do a better job because you don't actually look through the sight, you look down the barrel. In sim, you have to deal with the parallax caused by the gunsight and gun not being the same spot.
Originally posted by Chaoslink:


Also, bear in mind that latency is going to play a factor and the stationary target will typically always have the advantage as a result.

As for the circle, its actually not the big circle you want to pay attention to, its the smaller one that you don't actually control. You'll notice that the little circle will sort of snap to various objects, even when the big one isn't over them. This is because the big circle might not have collision with that object, but the barrel doesn't have direct line of sight due to the obstruction. You can really see this in action when trying to peek over something, as the circle will snap to the object when you don't have clearance. That smaller circle does actually give a good impression of where that round is going to go, though "sniper" mode looking through the gunsight does do a better job because you don't actually look through the sight, you look down the barrel. In sim, you have to deal with the parallax caused by the gunsight and gun not being the same spot.

Thats probably whats doing it, ive noticed the netcode needs some work, its much like tarkov with "peekers advantage" or the goofy crap in BF4 release
Originally posted by Lancebringer:
Originally posted by Chaoslink:


Also, bear in mind that latency is going to play a factor and the stationary target will typically always have the advantage as a result.

Thats probably whats doing it, ive noticed the netcode needs some work, its much like tarkov with "peekers advantage" or the goofy crap in BF4 release
Yeah, its inevitable as the nature of the internet means that no matter how good netcode is, there's going to be some level of latency that can impact this, all that can be done is making that gap as small as possible. Or, the better option, simply don't put yourself in the situation where that has any effect. One of the most important things to protect in this game isn't your tank or your crew, its your location. Last thing you want is anyone to know where you are. Who has the advantage in peeking is irrelevant if they don't know you're there to react. Nearly ALL my kills are on tanks that don't know where I am and those that do only know roughly where I am, even if its as simple as peeking the other side of a building from where they'll likely expect me.
Last edited by Chaoslink; Mar 26 @ 4:33pm
jaxjace Mar 26 @ 5:07pm 
I watched that replay, you failed to see him properly (twice) failed to push him properly, and pushed a corner looking through sniper view.

You saw he was moving to the left and kept looking at where he was thinking he was going to come back, he nearly managed to drive right up to you before he wisely took cover before you could notice, then when you pushed him you went right up to him and SLOWLY turned around the corner hugging the rock when you should have taken a wide route on the outside keeping as much as your front facing him as possible with a wide turning arc, on top of that you should have been using third person view to move your camera as far to the right as possible to look at his position and the angle of his shot to relative to you, had you done that you would have seen that his gun lined up PERFECTLY with the side of your armor as you pushed around. Beyond all that, the Wiesel can penetrate you anywhere and is exponentially more dangerous the closer he is. You basically gave him that kill. Then to hamstring yourself even more you tunnel visioned yourself in sniper mode not letting you even see him until your entire tank was visible to him. At that range, there is 0 reason to use the sniper mode, a center mass shot will do him just fine.

Sorry if this sounded harsh but you wanted to know what you did wrong and this is it, if you go back and watch from his perspective he is working his camera in third person constantly and was aware of you the entire time in both of your spawns.

Do not be discouraged, the player you were against has 35 DAYS in tanks compared to your 4, when you play the game that much the intricacies and gimmicks are all second nature, if you keep playing you wont make rookie mistakes like that ever again.
Last edited by jaxjace; Mar 26 @ 5:12pm
Toblm Mar 26 @ 5:20pm 
That was a fun replay to watch. And like most replays explains a hell of a lot.
Originally posted by Lancebringer:
Originally posted by Chaoslink:
Ah, so you're talking about the Wiesel when you were in the Sheridan right? So, in that scenario you have to consider the shape of your tank. He's in a tiny little vehicle with a rapid fire autocannon, specifically one that is positioned at the rear of the vehicle. This means that, when he's aiming at you with his back to you, the gun is basically the first thing peeking. this means that nearly none of his vehicle is visible before the gun can be on target. Now your vehicle is a bit more tank shaped, with a turret positioned more in the middle of the vehicle. This means that, when peeking a corner, your hull is exposed before the gun is, unlike his. If he can get a shot on your chassis, specifically from the side like he did, he can get rounds into your tank and possibly hit ammo or knock out crew before you can even see him.

You might get a better idea of it if you go back and watch again, but watch from his perspective rather than yours.

This is a common thing players often fail at and a common example I typically see is in low tier Shermans. They peek the corner completely side on, parallel with the cover itself. By doing this, when they peek, the hull of the Sherman where the driver is gets completely exposed to the enemy before the gun is and a well placed shot can stop the Sherman in its tracks before the gun is around the cover to shoot. Instead, they should be a distance from the cover so they can expose their armor at an angle. This increases its effective protection, but also places the turret closer to the cover, meaning less of the vehicle needs to be exposed before the turret can see.

Basically, what you needed to have done is get further from the rock and approach with more of your front armor facing him than the side armor. This would allow your gun to see him sooner. Given you're also in a lightly armored vehicle facing an autocannon, you also probably should have pushed with more speed as it wasn't likely that you'd take many hits before he got you as he could easily penetrate you and that speed might've lowered the number of shots he got before you could fire. In any case, it wasn't a good matchup for you, he very much had the advantage there.

The one thing you might've been able to do here, is overpressure him. Given how light his vehicle is, just landing HE next to him might've been enough to do him in, without even seeing his vehicle. Protection analysis shots that basically any direct hit from any of your ammo types would be enough to do him in, so even a shot on the ground next to him would have done it. You just needed to approach with your chassis facing him instead of side on. Always angle yourself or approach straight on. Both are better than approaching side-on like that unless your turret is either very forward on the tank or further back but you're approaching from reverse.

To really get a feel for it, look at the AMX M24, its basically an M24 Chaffee, but the turret sits even further back on the chassis. Now imagine pushing that guy in that same scenario. Your entire hull is basically fully visible to him before the turret would see him. Should give a better representation. Unlike in a standard shooter where your first person view is nearly your whole body, a tank has a body that extends further horizontally. So its very much possible to be hit before the enemy can see your turret. As long as they can kill you through that part they see, they don't need to wait until you can see them and he could easily hit ammo in the front hull of your tank as well as have shrapnel bounce up into your turret crew.

You just need to be more spatially aware of your tank's hull instead of just the turret.

So how does this work on the same body tanks I face with other nations?
Doesnt matter what tank it is, they always see a part of my body and i cannot see theirs.

I shoot explicitly from the gunners view as the third person always misses for me, that GIGANTIC circle doesnt tell me where its going to hit
go third person and its easier to peak corners also turn up your volume. take a wider route while peaking so your weak side isnt exposed. dont stay in gunner view unless your gonna take a shot. staying in gunner view limits your vision. watch the corners try to hear if there any engine sounds approaching
Chinese advantage.
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Date Posted: Mar 26 @ 12:02pm
Posts: 15