T80BVM made of paper or something?

[Krazykov]

So I finally made it to 12.0 got myself T80BVM that I heard good things about, using backups I've smashed out about 10+ games with it. Conclusion: this is worse than a light tank when it comes to survivability, what the hell is this Rus bias I heard rumours about, where is it? haha, or was this rubbish nerfed into the ground by the time I got to it? Literally every single death has been 1 shot death, and most from the front where it supposed to take a hit or two, I haven't bounced a single thing (any angle, any part of the tank) Anything and everything can 1 shot kill T80BVM, me on the other hand I had to shoot some tanks 5 times to destroy them. There was a Swedish Strv 122B that just wouldn't die at all, nothing would pen it. Clickbait somehow took 3 shots from the side and still lived at one point. So sick and tired with this disappointing sorry excuse of a tech tree...

The only good thing about T80BVM so far is that the mobility is pretty good, and PRAISE JESUS it can actually reverse slightly faster than a baby crawling on the ground...

Yeah yeah skill issue/get gud "insert some bs" whatever, Rus MBT's are pure poop on tracks.

[Wandering Flare]

Originally posted by spartakisteqc:

Originally posted by Wandering Flare:

I'd trade the Strvs and Leopards for more than just the one squadron T-80, of the whole lineup I've had the best time in it alone.

Strange because the Leopard 2s are way better tanks in 95% of game situations.

If you spend 95% of game situations sitting all the way across the map, waiting for someone to come into your line of sight after they've passed the points and headed for your spawn, sure. Even then I'd gladly take a T-series because the breech area on Leopards is such an easy instakill that it's laughable.

[spartakisteqc]

Originally posted by Wandering Flare:

Originally posted by spartakisteqc:

Strange because the Leopard 2s are way better tanks in 95% of game situations.

If you spend 95% of game situations sitting all the way across the map, waiting for someone to come into your line of sight after they've passed the points and headed for your spawn, sure. Even then I'd gladly take a T-series because the breech area on Leopards is such an easy instakill that it's laughable.

Both Leopard 2A7s and the Swedish Strv 122s are better at everything that the T-80BVM can do except surviving to poorly aimed shot where their gigantic lower front plate can betray them from time to time. That's really it.

The 2A7s are a little bit slower foward because of the added weight, but all these Leopard 2s have much better firepower, much better gun depression (which is very handy in many maps), much better armor that doesn't depend of one time ERA to survive anything (without its ERA, the BVM is a BR 10.7 T-80B), a massively better reverse gear and much better survivability thanks to having 4 crews and especially for the two 2A7 because they have spall liners when the T-80 doesn't.

Sorry, but I would take the Leopard 2s over the BVM anyday. If you're not playing like a mad man who never releases the W key, the Leopard 2s are just plain better at everything.

[elsimate]

Originally posted by spartakisteqc:

Originally posted by Wandering Flare:

If you spend 95% of game situations sitting all the way across the map, waiting for someone to come into your line of sight after they've passed the points and headed for your spawn, sure. Even then I'd gladly take a T-series because the breech area on Leopards is such an easy instakill that it's laughable.

Both Leopard 2A7s and the Swedish Strv 122s are better at everything that the T-80BVM can do except surviving to poorly aimed shot where their gigantic lower front plate can betray them from time to time. That's really it.

The 2A7s are a little bit slower foward because of the added weight, but all these Leopard 2s have much better firepower, much better gun depression (which is very handy in many maps), much better armor that doesn't depend of one time ERA to survive anything (without its ERA, the BVM is a BR 10.7 T-80B), a massively better reverse gear and much better survivability thanks to having 4 crews and especially for the two 2A7 because they have spall liners when the T-80 doesn't.

Sorry, but I would take the Leopard 2s over the BVM anyday. If you're not playing like a mad man who never releases the W key, the Leopard 2s are just plain better at everything.

This guy always talks about T series pwnzing everything and about how Leo's are very weak tanks. Without any proof of course.

[Krazykov]

Originally posted by spartakisteqc:

Originally posted by Wandering Flare:

If you spend 95% of game situations sitting all the way across the map, waiting for someone to come into your line of sight after they've passed the points and headed for your spawn, sure. Even then I'd gladly take a T-series because the breech area on Leopards is such an easy instakill that it's laughable.

Both Leopard 2A7s and the Swedish Strv 122s are better at everything that the T-80BVM can do except surviving to poorly aimed shot where their gigantic lower front plate can betray them from time to time. That's really it.

The 2A7s are a little bit slower foward because of the added weight, but all these Leopard 2s have much better firepower, much better gun depression (which is very handy in many maps), much better armor that doesn't depend of one time ERA to survive anything (without its ERA, the BVM is a BR 10.7 T-80B), a massively better reverse gear and much better survivability thanks to having 4 crews and especially for the two 2A7 because they have spall liners when the T-80 doesn't.

Sorry, but I would take the Leopard 2s over the BVM anyday. If you're not playing like a mad man who never releases the W key, the Leopard 2s are just plain better at everything.

Yeah this definitely seems to be the case, and I think for my play-style Leopard 2's or 122's is probably the way to go, I've started grinding Swedish tech tree, rly enjoying the 5.7 lineup atm. The Strv 74 for example such a weird looking tank haha but damn its good, and oh man having 15degrees depression is a game changer.

[Munk Chuncher]

Bait post anyway

[Wandering Flare]

Originally posted by spartakisteqc:

Originally posted by Wandering Flare:

If you spend 95% of game situations sitting all the way across the map, waiting for someone to come into your line of sight after they've passed the points and headed for your spawn, sure. Even then I'd gladly take a T-series because the breech area on Leopards is such an easy instakill that it's laughable.

Both Leopard 2A7s and the Swedish Strv 122s are better at everything that the T-80BVM can do except surviving to poorly aimed shot where their gigantic lower front plate can betray them from time to time. That's really it.

The 2A7s are a little bit slower foward because of the added weight, but all these Leopard 2s have much better firepower, much better gun depression (which is very handy in many maps), much better armor that doesn't depend of one time ERA to survive anything (without its ERA, the BVM is a BR 10.7 T-80B), a massively better reverse gear and much better survivability thanks to having 4 crews and especially for the two 2A7 because they have spall liners when the T-80 doesn't.

Sorry, but I would take the Leopard 2s over the BVM anyday. If you're not playing like a mad man who never releases the W key, the Leopard 2s are just plain better at everything.

You must be having insanely good luck to get enemies that are terrible enough not to oneshot you in a Leopard in basically any situation. It doesn't even require aiming, any centermass hit is instant turret crew death, so far I haven't noticed the spall liners having any effect, ERA can at least stop a latency-hit or a whiffed shot, if a Leopard gets hit it dies, no ifs and buts.

I keep seeing people complain about the gun depression and reverse gear on T-series and after playing them for hundreds of matches I just can't relate, proper positioning does wonders.

[BlackWolf9988]

Originally posted by Betrayer:

Originally posted by Qu Rahn:

Sorry to say, but if you grinded all to the way because of "russian bias", you're late to the party.

Russia was the top dog many patches ago. People would argue it had an unending supply of backup vehicles (although I hold the position that it was helicopters that made the Russian lineup dominate, as the ground units were worse peer-to-peer, with maybe the BVM being the exception), anyhow, post Sweden introduction, that was no longer the case.
122s had everything: armor, mobility, firepower, minor nation. Subsequent patches brought more lineup choices to everyone, and basically everyone but can bring many top tier capable MBTs, IFVs, SPAAs, planes, helis. Then 2A7s, DM53 for all Leopards, 600+ pen rounds started becoming common, better CAS, helicopter module nerf, etc.
Russia DID have a long run dominating top tier, though, that can't really be denied.

Last patch Russia got the SU34 which is a darn good CAS (although everyone has broken CAS these days), but, as of this X-mas, I'm feeling the teams are massively worse because of the influx of T80UE1s -- worse than Clickbait teams, which tbh I expected to happen, precisely because of the laughable reverse & gun depression. Russian bias really only goes as far as playing those vehicles yourself. Then you start appreciating what -40 km/h reverse coupled with -10 depression does for your gameplay, nevermind the previous T-72/80s versions with lulz 4 deg/sec vertical traverse and lulz 20 deg/sec turret rotation, that abysmal gun handling DOES get you killed.

As far the BVM goes:
The only change that happened to it is the autoloader module being added as a damageable component, all the rest is the same and has not been touched since its introduction.

It's a T80 with better ERA, slightly slower because of the armor package, but a much needed buff to gun handling in the form of traverse speeds. Side Relikt will glitch out and eat shots from time to time, can't complain on it being weak tbh.

Reverse is still bad, depression is questionable, penetrating hits will kill you because of the packed 3 crew, same weakspots, and all the other shortcomings that you already saw all the way from the T-64s.

Personally, I think it's the only good vehicle for RU at top tier, the T90M mobility leaves MUCH to be desired, the gun depression angle being worse also hits it pretty bad, and the reload is the slowest of all top tier MBTs. IMO the T-72 line holds a candle to the T-80 one.

Russia is still the best top tier nation.
Why ?
They are the only nation ingame that has access to the Pantsir.
SPAA is very powerful if you have good CAS to pair with
mbts just 1shot each other anyways

also about the t90m
i think its a horrible mbt.. the only reason that garbage works at all is because of the broken spall liners
you can literally bait shots with ur side armor because most of the time u survive

Most top tier NATO CAS can out range even the pantsir with GPS bombs, its not that hard.

Hell you don't even have to expose yourself to the pantsir to kill it in stuff like the eurofighter. All you have to do is mark its position on the map and shoot your missiles behind cover. The missiles then auto track on the marked position on the map.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

Originally posted by Wandering Flare:

You must be having insanely good luck to get enemies that are terrible enough not to oneshot you in a Leopard in basically any situation. It doesn't even require aiming, any centermass hit is instant turret crew death, so far I haven't noticed the spall liners having any effect.

I keep seeing people complain about the gun depression and reverse gear on T-series and after playing them for hundreds of matches I just can't relate, proper positioning does wonders.

Same can be said about any of the T-Series tanks to be honest, if it isn't a terrible shot you are gone, no ifs or buts about it. Overall, I find them somewhat easier to kill compared to Leopard or Abrams.

As far as positioning goes, that is always important, and the reason why the NATO tanks are so vastly superior. Much more options on the maps to begin with, and you aren't as committed once you've made a decision.

No takesies-backsies in the T-Series, if you did something rash, you better hope they are missing the entire 45 seconds it takes you to repair your breech.

[Kholyaskaya]

Side additional armors are too powewrfull imo, weak spot are still the same

[Wandering Flare]

Originally posted by whatdoesthisbuttondo?:

Originally posted by Wandering Flare:

You must be having insanely good luck to get enemies that are terrible enough not to oneshot you in a Leopard in basically any situation. It doesn't even require aiming, any centermass hit is instant turret crew death, so far I haven't noticed the spall liners having any effect.

I keep seeing people complain about the gun depression and reverse gear on T-series and after playing them for hundreds of matches I just can't relate, proper positioning does wonders.

Same can be said about any of the T-Series tanks to be honest, if it isn't a terrible shot you are gone, no ifs or buts about it. Overall, I find them somewhat easier to kill compared to Leopard or Abrams.

As far as positioning goes, that is always important, and the reason why the NATO tanks are so vastly superior. Much more options on the maps to begin with, and you aren't as committed once you've made a decision.

No takesies-backsies in the T-Series, if you did something rash, you better hope they are missing the entire 45 seconds it takes you to repair your breech.

The difference is the size of the weakspot, which for Leopard is the entire front of the chassis and massive breech area, meaning you pretty much never have any certainty you won't get killed from a shot hitting you, even in a hulldown at 1km away. I've survived most of shots to the breech area in at T-series thanks to how much of a volumetric hell it is, meanwhile poking my head out to get a shot out is in most cases instant death in a Leopard. Same goes for me shooting either tank. That's not getting into the post-pen damage difference, the fuel-soaked ammo on T-series, the autoloader being there to absorb shots meant for the ammo, etc. "driver engine" is basically a staple of me hitting or getting hit in a T-series.

"If you did something rash you get punished" isn't really the fault of the tank, and generally if your position is good you will only need a couple seconds to reverse behind cover in a T-series before the enemy has a chance to get another shot into you. Meanwhile a Leopard, if their opponent isn't a moron, won't even get the chance to reverse.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

Originally posted by Wandering Flare:

The difference is the size of the weakspot, which for Leopard is the entire front of the chassis and massive breech area, meaning you pretty much never have any certainty you won't get killed from a shot hitting you, even in a hulldown at 1km away. I've survived most of shots to the breech area in at T-series thanks to how much of a volumetric hell it is, meanwhile poking my head out to get a shot out is in most cases instant death in a Leopard. Same goes for me shooting either tank. That's not getting into the post-pen damage difference, the fuel-soaked ammo on T-series, the autoloader being there to absorb shots meant for the ammo, etc. "driver engine" is basically a staple of me hitting or getting hit in a T-series.

"If you did something rash you get punished" isn't really the fault of the tank, and generally if your position is good you will only need a couple seconds to reverse behind cover in a T-series before the enemy has a chance to get another shot into you. Meanwhile a Leopard, if their opponent isn't a moron, won't even get the chance to reverse.

Guess we have to agree to disagree here then, this is absolutely not my experience, and looking at statistics neither is it the experience of the vast majority of players.

If the T-Series works better for you then there is nothing to argue, but it doesn't for the majority.

[nirvana_sth]

Originally posted by whatdoesthisbuttondo?:

Originally posted by Wandering Flare:

The difference is the size of the weakspot, which for Leopard is the entire front of the chassis and massive breech area, meaning you pretty much never have any certainty you won't get killed from a shot hitting you, even in a hulldown at 1km away. I've survived most of shots to the breech area in at T-series thanks to how much of a volumetric hell it is, meanwhile poking my head out to get a shot out is in most cases instant death in a Leopard. Same goes for me shooting either tank. That's not getting into the post-pen damage difference, the fuel-soaked ammo on T-series, the autoloader being there to absorb shots meant for the ammo, etc. "driver engine" is basically a staple of me hitting or getting hit in a T-series.

"If you did something rash you get punished" isn't really the fault of the tank, and generally if your position is good you will only need a couple seconds to reverse behind cover in a T-series before the enemy has a chance to get another shot into you. Meanwhile a Leopard, if their opponent isn't a moron, won't even get the chance to reverse.

Guess we have to agree to disagree here then, this is absolutely not my experience, and looking at statistics neither is it the experience of the vast majority of players.

If the T-Series works better for you then there is nothing to argue, but it doesn't for the majority.

I'm probably part of the minority here too, according to you.

[QUANTUM MECHANICS c000021a]

Just made a clip how easy is to get kills and eat a lot of darts at same time in T-90M.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNR-oLhj3Nw

[nirvana_sth]

Originally posted by QUANTUM MECHANICS c000021a:

Just made a clip how easy is to get kills and eat a lot of darts at same time in T-90M.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNR-oLhj3Nw

That's pretty much my experience.
When ppl claim soviet mbts being worse than NATO tanks I wonder if they are playing an entirely different game...

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

Originally posted by nirvana_sth:

Originally posted by QUANTUM MECHANICS c000021a:

Just made a clip how easy is to get kills and eat a lot of darts at same time in T-90M.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNR-oLhj3Nw

That's pretty much my experience.
When ppl claim soviet mbts being worse than NATO tanks I wonder if they are playing an entirely different game...

They probably just have a different approach from making a beeline straight to the one spot on the map that has hard cover the entire length of your tank, with just the right height that your barrel is just barely clearing it, and enemies conveniently being funneled into a kill zone.

And not shooting out your barrel instantly, but I guess that's the average Abrams player.

This really is a perfect illustration, they work really well in a narrow range of spots and situations, but that simply isn't as good as working really well pretty much everywhere.