Modern warships?

[Sir_James]

We have modern fighters, tanks, helicopters but no ships. Why is this?

[Dinonoms]

Because Naval Combat simply excist. It's not the most popular game mode so it doesn't get as much attention as ground and air

[Eftwyrd]

Air was introduced in 2012, arguably earlier given warthunder air modes are just a copy of their earlier 2009 game birds of steel, tanks were introduced in 2014. Naval beta began in 2018

So given air took from 2012 to 2024 to reach modern aircraft still in service which are only just coming out now, with many still missing so far from complete. Naval which came many years later might be a little behind… who’d have thought

[Sir_James]

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

Air was introduced in 2012, arguably earlier given warthunder air modes are just a copy of their earlier 2009 game birds of steel, tanks were introduced in 2014. Naval beta began in 2018

So given air took over a decade to reach modern aircraft still in service which are only just coming out now, naval which came many years later might be a little behind… who’d have thought

Maybe

[Hotschi48]

Originally posted by Sir_James01:

We have modern fighters, tanks, helicopters but no ships. Why is this?

What do you imagine how modern naval battles would look like in a game which already now has too small maps for ships with effective gun range of maybe 16 km? Now put in anti-ship missiles with ranges of hundreds of kilometers - and ships with multiple-missile launcher batteries....

[Eftwyrd]

Originally posted by Sir_James01:

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

Air was introduced in 2012, arguably earlier given warthunder air modes are just a copy of their earlier 2009 game birds of steel, tanks were introduced in 2014. Naval beta began in 2018

So given air took over a decade to reach modern aircraft still in service which are only just coming out now, naval which came many years later might be a little behind… who’d have thought

Maybe

Not maybe… that was sarcasm mate

They weren’t even planning a Bluewater tree, I can’t be bothered going back and finding the devblogs, you can do that yourself if you really care, but warthunders original plan for naval was entirely coastal boats.

So not only did naval come many years later, after its initial poorly received release they pivoted completely and made a different mode than they had originally planned

They are not going to release a guided missile destroyer when the last generation of battleships isn’t even in game yet. Notice how little attention ww2 aircraft and tanks get nowadays, major updates are near all modern vehicles, we are lucky if there is a single older vehicle for a given nation and some can go multiple updates without one. It’s because they built up to it, releasing progressively newer things over time

Top tier air was once Korean War with not a guided missile or after burner to be found, then the introduction of supersonic aircraft. Then early heat seekers. Crude MCLOS ATGMs, later SACLOS weapons, radar, semi active radar homing missiles, laser guided munitions, and only in the last year or two active radar homing.

If we get modern weapons it will only be after the generations of weapons leading up to it are out.

[SpiralRazor]

arent there already two guided missile destroyers in the game already? Douglass and the russian one ??

[Eftwyrd]

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

arent there already two guided missile destroyers in the game already? Douglass and the russian one ??

douglass ain’t a destroyer by any stretch of the imagination, and if all you are after is missiles there are more examples than that

But the definition of guided missile destroyer is the missiles being the primary weapon, the closest we have to that is an old gun armed destroyer with one of its turrets swapped for surface to air missiles. It’s still very early, low rate of fire, and got most of its gun armament still intact which it makes heavy use of

A real example of the type as most people would describe it would be using surface to surface missiles against other ships instead of guns. I’m certain it will be highly engaging having a single vessel launch more guided ordinance than an entire team of top tier fighters. And then sitting there with nothing left to do but pray it’s munitions hit and it doesn’t get hit in return by a target it will never have line of sight on /sarcasm

[Sir_James]

I wasn't asking for an argument guys. I was just wondering.

[Angrypokstick]

Originally posted by Sir_James01:

I wasn't asking for an argument guys. I was just wondering.

because it wont be fun. You would be fighting the entire game without seeing the enemy once and basically whomever runs out of countermeasuers and CIWS ammo first would lose. if they combined with air battle in say a scenario of 2 carrier taskforces in a duel then sure it could be more fun between Air players and naval players and if you throw in modern subs also slinging missles and homing torpedos that could get interesting

[Eftwyrd]

Originally posted by Angrypokstick:

Originally posted by Sir_James01:

I wasn't asking for an argument guys. I was just wondering.

because it wont be fun. You would be fighting the entire game without seeing the enemy once and basically whomever runs out of countermeasuers and CIWS ammo first would lose. if they combined with air battle in say a scenario of 2 carrier taskforces in a duel then sure it could be more fun between Air players and naval players and if you throw in modern subs also slinging missles and homing torpedos that could get interesting

this^

people already complain about top tier air having too many players, and literally being a missile spam from spawn where the sky is just full of missiles within seconds of match start, then whichever team has a survivor wins. its bad enough gaijin added an opt in option for smaller teams

each ship will be able to output more missiles than the entire team of air players is doing now, against surface targets that will be below the horizon from them so they will never see. their mobility means jack all to incoming supersonic missiles so will make little difference from being stationary. your entire match will consist of staring at your ship model in the open ocean staring at radar contacts

And anti missile defences are really a last ditch prayer in reality, most missiles you would fire at a ship in modern times are going fast enough that something like a phalanx is at best going to prevent them detonating but you are still going to get hundreds of kilos of metal and burning fuel slamming into your unarmoured ship

[spartakisteqc]

The thing with modern ships is that everything is controlled inside the CIC using their sensors, getting a fire solution for their antiship missiles and then turning a key launch them at a target that's probably hundreds of kilometers away. You can't do those thing visually by any stretch of mind. I could maybe see the first generation of antiship missiles being added like the soviet Styx that had something like 50km of range, but I'm not sure how could naval be playable with the current engine and gameplay style with missiles that have massively more range.

You would be throwing missiles at unseen enemies and receiving their missiles after maybe a few minutes of fly time. The engine and gameplay systems aren't made for a more like abstract type of gameplay like following dots on a radar scope. War Thunder was pretty much made for visual range fighting especially for their ground and naval trees.

[jaxjace]

Because they are trying to come up with a way to implement ASM spamming destroyers and cruisers without the gameplay being destroyed.
I think they need to just go for it and sort out the gameplay after the features are understood.

As it stands now its already wacky either spawning in open water shooting at eachother or spawning behind islands and camping them all game. With Missile armed ships this would be the same thing just far faster time to kill. Think of Top tier air Fox 3 spam but on the water.

[⚜Z3⚜ eris.exe]

gaijin hates naval players and only added it so people wont complain that theres a lack of a naval gamemode

[Sir_James]

I don't get why you guys are getting so worked up over this. I only asked a simple question. I wasn't pleading or begging for Gaijin to add modern naval warships. I was only wondering why there aren't any modern ships. I think you guys are just missing my point.

[Eftwyrd]

Originally posted by Sir_James01:

I don't get why you guys are getting so worked up over this. I only asked a simple question. I wasn't pleading or begging for Gaijin to add modern naval warships. I was only wondering why there aren't any modern ships. I think you guys are just missing my point.

simple implications, you asked why arent they there, implying you believe they should be.

what followed is a discussion on why thats such a terribly idea

really not rocket surgery mate

what i dont understand is why you are objecting to people answering your question...

if they ever intend to add them it will come later, because naval is still very new as warthunder modes go, ground and air as you see them today are the products of many years of work. they were a fraction as big a few years ago