Dousing Fires?

[Somme Guy]

When I am flying in my Wellington, it is not uncommon for one of the engines or wings to catch fire after being damaged. Why can’t my co-pilot climb out onto the wing and put out the flames?

EDIT: For those of you who think I am serious, I am not. I obviously to not expect this to be implemented as a mechanic in the game in any way. I originally created this thread to see if anyone would recognize that I was referencing the actions of a real life individual known as James Allen Ward, a New Zealander did climb out onto the wing of his Wellington bomber. His demonstration of bravery allowed his crew to make an emergency landing in New Market in the United Kingdom, instead of bailing out over the North Sea.

[spicypepper999]

Originally posted by Somme Guy:

Why can’t my co-pilot climb out onto the wing and put out the flames?

are you serious

[BrigadierBill]

Originally posted by Somme Guy:

When I am flying in my Wellington, it is not uncommon for one of the engines or wings to catch fire after being damaged. Why can’t my co-pilot climb out onto the wing and put out the flames?

Because there's no massive quantity of industrial-grade fire retardant in an aircraft to stop an oil fire, your copilot is a wuss and doesn't want to run around on a maneuvering, burning aircraft (and the cockpit of a Wellington doesn't open up, meaning he would need to climb across the surface of the fuselage at 300+kph), and because it would probably be difficult to actually get said fire-retardant material into the engine while the plane is still moving 300+kph given that it would have to somehow be pumped straight into the engine or it would just fall off the aircraft, and that means sticking your hands almost into a blazing engine fire next to the propeller.

Other than those minor points, no idea. :P

[Procrastinating Gamer]

The only time climbing out onto the wing of a plane isn't suicide is when there's a harness, they're wearing a parachute, the pilot is flying as slow and steady as possible, there are no distractions, and its an organised stunt set up well in advance to ensure the air space is totally clear of non-involved aircraft. And even then, you're talking about a guy standing or crawling on a smoothly-polished piece of metal about a metre or two wide in 300+kph winds.

Can you really see someone crazy enough to do that in the middle of a firefight?

[90s Wizard]

i know where you got the idea of it from the description of one of the welingtons, the devs wouldnt allow it since people would complain way to much that its a cheap way to put out a fire.

[lungenfoto]

Extinguishers are available for tank fires, so guess they will be available for planes too, eventually.

[BrigadierBill]

Originally posted by Парменион:

Extinguishers are available for tank fires, so guess they will be available for planes too, eventually.

There's still a difference between putting out a fire that you can reach and one you can't. Putting out an engine fire is pretty unrealistic but it's theoretically possible at least, whereas killing an aircraft engine fire couldn't really be explained by any leap of logic.

[lungenfoto]

Not really, B-17 and F2A Brewster are examples of planes fitted with fire extinguisher. B-17's was inside the engine cowling, if extinguisher failed the cowling could be fully opened and plane put into a dive to extinguish fire. Aside from mechanized systems there were also acts of heroism, one of which saw a Wellington pilot clamber onto the wing at 10,000ft to douse an engine fire. So its historic. Anyway, its a game, restrict it in SB if needed but don't see why it would, I regularly set planes on fire now, they burn for 3-5 minutes then the fire goes out!

Also, tanks are going to have consumables like fire extinguishers, track repair etc. all without retreat, why shouldn't planes?

[BrigadierBill]

Originally posted by Парменион:

Not really, B-17 and F2A Brewster are examples of planes fitted with fire extinguisher. B-17's was inside the engine cowling, if extinguisher failed the cowling could be fully opened and plane put into a dive to extinguish fire. Aside from mechanized systems there were also acts of heroism, one of which saw a Wellington pilot clamber onto the wing at 10,000ft to douse an engine fire. So its historic. Anyway, its a game, restrict it in SB if needed but don't see why it would, I regularly set planes on fire now, they burn for 3-5 minutes then the fire goes out!

Also, tanks are going to have consumables like fire extinguishers, track repair etc. all without retreat, why shouldn't planes?

It depends on how it's implemented. Tanks crews could put out fires, but it would be difficult; repairing the tracks takes time, and damage to the gun or turret traverse was irrepairable. If the game stays true to its fundamental realism and doesn't go all World of Tanks instant repair on us then I'm fine.

[Easy]

we really need engine extinguishers

[Real Goblin]

To douse an engine fire, cut engines with "I" and coast for a bit. To douse a wing fire, dive as fast as you possibly can without tearing your wings off.

[Kalashnikov]

Originally posted by FunnyFarm:

To douse an engine fire, cut engines with "I" and coast for a bit. To douse a wing fire, dive as fast as you possibly can without tearing your wings off.

I use the engine shutoff trick all the time but I wasn't aware of diving to help put it out. How did you find this out, God of Guides?

[Real Goblin]

Originally posted by Wolfbane Secret Recipe Toast:

Originally posted by FunnyFarm:

To douse an engine fire, cut engines with "I" and coast for a bit. To douse a wing fire, dive as fast as you possibly can without tearing your wings off.

I use the engine shutoff trick all the time but I wasn't aware of diving to help put it out. How did you find this out, God of Guides?

Haha no. Saw it in "Memphis Belle."

Other than that, (WARNING lots of engineery/sciency stuff) it works because a wing makes the air above it less dense than the air below it, so the denser air pushes up on the wing to try to balance it out (the law of the diffusion of particles), and the faster the wing goes, the less dense the air above will become (which is why faster planes tend to climb much better than slow planes). In the case of a fire, if you go fast enough, this lack of air above the wing suffocates the fire (because fires need oxygen to stay lit, you can prove it yourself by placing a seal over a lit lighter). Altitudes above 20,000ft are also very good ways of warding off a fire because of the air being less dense in the first place.

For an early fighter such as the P-26 or He 51, fire was essentially impossible to put out unless the pilot or co-pilot climbed onto the wing with a fire extinguisher because of their incapability to go above 200mph without being in a dead drop. But as fighters got faster, pilots started going into a straight dive when they noticed a fire on their wing or in their engine, and to their surprise, the fire went out and they either resumed the dogfight or tried to return to an airfield to repair. Then someone went and tried this on a bomber, and it still worked.

A jet, however, works by making the air as dense as possible and then lighting it on fire. Which is why even the fighter jets of today and almost all of them throughout history are little more than burning rocks when they catch fire. The only exceptions are turbo-props, which have a jet engine and a propeller for emergency situations such as the engine catching fire.

TL;DR: Less air = less fire.

[Somme Guy]

Originally posted by CommunistSquared:

are you serious

As far as implementing it as a game mechanic is concerned, no. I am kind of disappointed that only two people recognised that I was referencing the heroic actions of James Allen Ward VC. If you do not know the story, you should Google it. It is extremely interesting, like the many other acts of bravery that occurred during the Second World War.

[Somme Guy]

Originally posted by soldier905:

The lack of common sense and hollywood type of expectations is just amazing .....

Did I not state in my previous post that I was not serious, and that I was referencing the heroic actions of James Allen Ward VC?

[lungenfoto]

Sergeant James Allan Ward V.C. of 75th Squadron RAF (New Zealand) survived and made it back to England in the Wellington.
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/first-new-zealand-v-c

Flight Engineer Norman Jackson V.C. also survived after falling off the wing of his Lancaster but was captured along with rest of crew when plane went down.
http://www.stmgrts.org.uk/archives/2010/03/norman_jackson_vc_a_local_hero.html

The award of Victoria Cross is a somewhat rare event, that however does not imply that attempting to extinguish engines with hand held extinguishers was rare. Whats important is that both bombers had automated extinguisher systems in place, pumps and in the cowling.