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Nipah 2015 年 9 月 4 日 下午 10:44
M1A1 Abrams vs MAUS
Who would win?

Pret sure the MAUS would have a chance of penning the M1A1 Abrams
If it was in the right angle and position?
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正在显示第 16 - 30 条,共 101 条留言
Nipah 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 12:53 
引用自 Nadlug
Probably would destroy the engine but it wouldent get past the engine block thus the M1A1-T stationary turret will be born, and promptly destory its creator with extreme prejudice. Assuming the Maus could lumber into positionb Behind the Abrams of course.

Honestly with the crap that goes into building and protecting modern MBT's There isnt a whole hell of a lot that can destroy them outright. Disable most definately but the vehicle itself would still be serviceable once recovered.

I wouldent be suprised if one could sit inside a Nuclear blast and have the engine fired up again with just spare parts considering how resistant to heat most of that armor is.

You really don't know that.
Armor is basically 99% classified.
But i do know their is some uranium and chemicals in there..

But eh, i'm still saying it's possible for the MAUS to pen the vents at the back
(Who the ♥♥♥♥ put those vents there?)

But yeah
Nadlug 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 12:54 
Indeed, but its in good fun.

引用自 彡Crest

You really don't know that.
Armor is basically 99% classified.
But i do know their is some uranium and chemicals in there..

But eh, i'm still saying it's possible for the MAUS to pen the vents at the back
(Who the ♥♥♥♥ put those vents there?)

But yeah

As far as I know the Depleted uranium armor is only on the M1A2, The M1A1 Just has composit armor which is tough as all get out anyway.

Anyway the armor IS classified but there are some ballpark estimates on the effective thickness verus various types of impacts The lowest being in the 400 mm range for Kinetic energy projectiles (your typical armor piercing shell)
All armored vehicles, Hell all decently designed Cars have a thick metal plate between the engine compartment and crew compartment. For a car its to prevent your engine from meeting your lower body in the case of a head on collision. In a combat vehicle its designed to keep the crew alive in case the engine explodes for some strange reason. Assuming the Maus's shell wasnet stopped by the turbine engine itself it would have to punch trhough that engine block with what little remining kinetic force it has left.

As for the vents...
The reason for the vents is beacuse the engine eneds to breath and it needs a lot more air than the crew. The whole design of the abrams is all about destroying anything that can destroy you before it ever gets the chance (a rather common theme in modern warfare)

If you can reasonably guarantee that the rear of your tank will never get shot then it stands to reason to focus all of your vunerabilitys there and build everything else around preventing them from being exploited.

Yes its basicly Otacon giving Rex a "caracter flaw."

Why the rear and not on top like the days of old? Well i can guess that with the advancement of aviation, Aircraft are more of a threat than other tanks so the upper hull cant be paper thin and full of holes anymore.
最后由 Nadlug 编辑于; 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 1:07
NAF-5th.Legion-Waffen.Div 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 1:09 
引用自 彡Crest
引用自 Nadlug
Probably would destroy the engine but it wouldent get past the engine block thus the M1A1-T stationary turret will be born, and promptly destory its creator with extreme prejudice. Assuming the Maus could lumber into positionb Behind the Abrams of course.

Honestly with the crap that goes into building and protecting modern MBT's There isnt a whole hell of a lot that can destroy them outright. Disable most definately but the vehicle itself would still be serviceable once recovered.

I wouldent be suprised if one could sit inside a Nuclear blast and have the engine fired up again with just spare parts considering how resistant to heat most of that armor is.

You really don't know that.
Armor is basically 99% classified.
But i do know their is some uranium and chemicals in there..

But eh, i'm still saying it's possible for the MAUS to pen the vents at the back
(Who the ♥♥♥♥ put those vents there?)

But yeah
thhe maus would land a hit on the front turret of the M1 and most likely shut down his electronics and/or force the M1 to "reboot". see modern tanks work a little differently,they have some sensitive electronics and an onboard computer system.
最后由 NAF-5th.Legion-Waffen.Div 编辑于; 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 1:10
Nadlug 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 1:11 
引用自 NAFdeadmike
thhe maus would land a hit on the front turret of the M1 and most likely shut down his electronics and/or force the M1 to "reboot".

Damit Sam! Why did you put the reset button OUTSIDE of the tank!
NAF-5th.Legion-Waffen.Div 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 1:13 
引用自 Nadlug
引用自 NAFdeadmike
thhe maus would land a hit on the front turret of the M1 and most likely shut down his electronics and/or force the M1 to "reboot".

Damit Sam! Why did you put the reset button OUTSIDE of the tank!
electronics are sensitive
Nipah 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 1:17 
引用自 NAFdeadmike
引用自 彡Crest

You really don't know that.
Armor is basically 99% classified.
But i do know their is some uranium and chemicals in there..

But eh, i'm still saying it's possible for the MAUS to pen the vents at the back
(Who the ♥♥♥♥ put those vents there?)

But yeah
thhe maus would land a hit on the front turret of the M1 and most likely shut down his electronics and/or force the M1 to "reboot". see modern tanks work a little differently,they have some sensitive electronics and an onboard computer system.

I've already given up on you just by reading that first sentence.



引用自 Nadlug
Indeed, but its in good fun.

引用自 彡Crest

You really don't know that.
Armor is basically 99% classified.
But i do know their is some uranium and chemicals in there..

But eh, i'm still saying it's possible for the MAUS to pen the vents at the back
(Who the ♥♥♥♥ put those vents there?)

But yeah

As far as I know the Depleted uranium armor is only on the M1A2, The M1A1 Just has composit armor which is tough as all get out anyway.

Anyway the armor IS classified but there are some ballpark estimates on the effective thickness verus various types of impacts The lowest being in the 400 mm range for Kinetic energy projectiles (your typical armor piercing shell)
All armored vehicles, Hell all decently designed Cars have a thick metal plate between the engine compartment and crew compartment. For a car its to prevent your engine from meeting your lower body in the case of a head on collision. In a combat vehicle its designed to keep the crew alive in case the engine explodes for some strange reason. Assuming the Maus's shell wasnet stopped by the turbine engine itself it would have to punch trhough that engine block with what little remining kinetic force it has left.

As for the vents...
The reason for the vents is beacuse the engine eneds to breath and it needs a lot more air than the crew. The whole design of the abrams is all about destroying anything that can destroy you before it ever gets the chance (a rather common theme in modern warfare)

If you can reasonably guarantee that the rear of your tank will never get shot then it stands to reason to focus all of your vunerabilitys there and build everything else around preventing them from being exploited.

Yes its basicly Otacon giving Rex a "caracter flaw."

Why the rear and not on top like the days of old? Well i can guess that with the advancement of aviation, Aircraft are more of a threat than other tanks so the upper hull cant be paper thin and full of holes anymore.

Eh, you don't know that either. Maybe the M1A1 Does have deplted uranium armor?
(I'm sorry, but maybe it was in expieremental stages?)

And yeah, in War Thunder. Most vents have to placed somewhere and they're mostly on the top. But having vents on the top is better than having vents at the BACK, but why not have the vents placed on the bottom of the tank? Sure, if it hits a mine. Then it's going to aboslutely get rekt. But that is THEIR fault for not using the advanced mine-finding technology for doing that.

But that's just my opinion. I have no good evidence to backup my statement that it'll work.

And i agree with everything else you said too.
Tankfriend 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 3:51 
http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/images/3/38/M1A1_HA_frontLOS.jpg
http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/images/3/30/M1A1_HA_sideLOS.jpg
That's an (HA), which has more armour than a standard M1A1.

Of course that's just as much guesswork or estimates as everyone else has been doing here, but it does point out that people have very overexaggerated expectations of the side armours of modern tanks.

Going by those numbers above, the engine area is a guaranteed penetration, and even the crew compartment is vulnerable from the side, even if you allow for less penetration power for the Maus because of outdated ammunition design and poorer material quality when making that ammunition.
最后由 Tankfriend 编辑于; 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 3:53
JtDarth 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 4:01 
As far as a Maus getting into position to shoot an Abrams, simply turn the engine off, and sit where you are waiting for the Abrams to move in front of you. No modern tank crew would waste a shell on WW2 tech that shows no signs of life. More likely to mark it's location so it can be hauled to a museum.
As far as penetration, into the rear or potentially something like the turret ring would pen.
lucy 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 5:23 
引用自 DarthNachoz
As far as a Maus getting into position to shoot an Abrams, simply turn the engine off, and sit where you are waiting for the Abrams to move in front of you. No modern tank crew would waste a shell on WW2 tech that shows no signs of life. More likely to mark it's location so it can be hauled to a museum.
As far as penetration, into the rear or potentially something like the turret ring would pen.
^ logic
PyroPaul 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 5:36 
引用自 彡Tragopan
Who would win?

Pret sure the MAUS would have a chance of penning the M1A1 Abrams
If it was in the right angle and position?

The M1a1 Abrams has a complex composite armor of ceramic, steel, rubber, and kevlar plates to provide it protection against all forms of AT weaponry. But that also means that the Armor itself has a sort of variable thickness depending on what hits it...

For instance - the front plate of the Abrams Turret is said to provide +1000 mm of thickness against HEAT type munitions, but only ~700 verses KE penetrator type weapons.

but it is unsure what standard AP Shot would do against these tanks as it's impact type is a completely different dynamic and might cause unexpected damage to the tank which it wasn't really designed to protect against.

the 128mm shell might very well cause catastrophic damage as a shot as solid as the PzGr 43 is, it possibly could shatter the ceramic plates and be too much for the remaining Kevlar and Steel plates to protect against.

but that's the way of progress... The more advanced we get, the more and more simplistic things prove to be better.
Stulky 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 6:33 
Abrams armor, like the Challenger II CHOBHAM armour is equivalent to something rediculous like 8 feet of steel plate, maybe more. A Challenger II was fired upon in Basra many times as it got stuck in a ditch. The crew survived many hours of attack as a stationary object.
The armor would easily withstand WWII shells. It was designed to survive direct hits from depleated uranium and sabod discarding anti tank rounds. Sorry it's not even a contest.
Oh and those rear vents are outside of the armor shell of the M1A1.
Think how modern anti tank weapons work, like the javelin. They don't even try to penetrate the sides of the tank, they attack from directly above.
Foxtrot39 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 6:57 
Reactiv armor usually can't resist well a HE shell, so HE to destroy the armor then AP, it could pen
NAF-5th.Legion-Waffen.Div 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 6:58 
引用自 Stulky
Abrams armor, like the Challenger II CHOBHAM armour is equivalent to something rediculous like 8 feet of steel plate, maybe more. A Challenger II was fired upon in Basra many times as it got stuck in a ditch. The crew survived many hours of attack as a stationary object.
The armor would easily withstand WWII shells. It was designed to survive direct hits from depleated uranium and sabod discarding anti tank rounds. Sorry it's not even a contest.
Oh and those rear vents are outside of the armor shell of the M1A1.
Think how modern anti tank weapons work, like the javelin. They don't even try to penetrate the sides of the tank, they attack from directly above.
that challenger in Basra wasnt shot at by tanks.
NAF-5th.Legion-Waffen.Div 2015 年 9 月 5 日 上午 7:00 
引用自 彡Tragopan
引用自 NAFdeadmike
thhe maus would land a hit on the front turret of the M1 and most likely shut down his electronics and/or force the M1 to "reboot". see modern tanks work a little differently,they have some sensitive electronics and an onboard computer system.

I've already given up on you just by reading that first sentence.
ok ill refrase "if the M1 took a hit from another tank it COULD shut down its electronics or force a reboot,without killing it or even penning it.
引用自 彡Tragopan
Everybody here is probably imaging a battle between the Abrams and MAUS straight on..

But let's say this..

There is a ABRAMS in the suburbs of Aghanistan or something
And the Taliban managed to get a MAUS captured by the Soviet Union in 1945
And during the battle with Russia and Afghan, it was captured.

So they manage to flank this M1A1 Abrams.
And get really close to the back

And manages to fire a very well placed shot at the back of the tank.
Up close
AP Round.

?

Well here is where that scenerio goes down the toilet.

1st The MAUS was never in Afghanistan or used by the Soviets during their invasion of that country. The MAUS was also never used in combat since it was still in the prototype development phase.

2nd tanks never operate on their own, that's just stupid. Any tank on the ground will have infantry, air, and other tank support close by.

3rd Afghanistan dosen't really have suburbs, most cities like Kabul were blasted back to the stone age during the Soviet invasion and the 30 years of Taliban stagnation. Most of the fighting during the recent Afghan war was also fought in the country or mountians or the odd farming compound. Any fighting in urban areas usually invovled infantry and AIFV's (Armoured Infantry Fighting Vehicles) such as the LAV 3 or Bradly. The rason is that those vechiles are faster and urban warfare is better suited for them rather then a 70 or 80 tonne tank that can't fit in an alley or side street.

4. The MAUS is a big slow moving tank that would make far more noise and produce more smoke from its exhaust then the M1A1. An infared camera would spot it in a heartbeat. Not to mention with the use of satellites and drones it would be spotted in the air long before it could sneak up for that well placed shot. And even if it could sneak up the round from that tank might not have the power to actually destroy an M1A1 anyway.

And before you respond with "but what about this scenerio where it blah blah blah ...." I can tell you from first hand experience being around tanks that there is no chance that something from WW2 would stand a chance against a modern main battle tank. Even tanks such as the T-72 that Iraq used during the first Gulf war which are far more advanced then the MAUS didn't stand a chance. Look up the battle of 73 Easting where 9 M1A1 tanks and about 12 Bradly's faced a brigade of Republican Guard and wiped them out in less then half an hour without taking a single casulty.
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发帖日期: 2015 年 9 月 4 日 下午 10:44
回复数: 101